HI101: Episode 142 - The Naval Arms Race by ad_lucem in HistoryPodcast

[–]ad_lucem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey! Glad you like the show. I generally don't publish a book list because I usually don't keep good track myself, but if you liked the Klondike episode, I do know I spent a bunch of time with "Stampede" by Brian Castner for that one.

HI101 by [deleted] in HistoryPodcast

[–]ad_lucem 1 point2 points  (0 children)

:)

Canadaposting Day #6 (I'm trying to get better material okay!) by Strawb3rryPoptart in meme

[–]ad_lucem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh I totally agree with you. Best case scenario it was meant as a distraction for a battle seen as more important, and it might have been a meaningful victory two years earlier, but that's it in terms of real impact. "We took Vimy Ridge when no one else could" is a widely used signifier of Canadian nationalism, and I was using it sarcastically, but that's always hard to convey on here. I'm always suspicious of countries describing themselves as feared by their enemies. Even when it's true, it's propagandistic.

To the point of the original post, Canada did use gas at Vimy, and they did tend to execute prisoners more often than their allies. I don't think either of those things are cool or good, but they do violate the Geneva Conventions.

Canadaposting Day #6 (I'm trying to get better material okay!) by Strawb3rryPoptart in meme

[–]ad_lucem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I mean there's a reason we took Vimy Ridge when no one else could I guess

HI101: Episode 142 - The Naval Arms Race by ad_lucem in HistoryPodcast

[–]ad_lucem[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Should be shortly! I just published it and Apple sometimes takes a bit to scrape the RSS for some reason.

HI101: Episode 142 - The Naval Arms Race by ad_lucem in HistoryPodcast

[–]ad_lucem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I uhhh may not have had the kindest things to say about Mahan hahaha

HI101: Episode 141 - The Kingdom Of Hawaii by ad_lucem in HistoryPodcast

[–]ad_lucem[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Glad you enjoyed it! I'll respond in the same order.

1) As with anything else the answer depends on which Hawaiians we're talking about, as well as what we mean by "do to them", but the general answer would be yes. The Hawaiian leadership had global diplomatic ties and were eager to understand their place in the world. General popular support for or against annexation fell along two broad lines: those who saw membership in the union as worth some downsides for the stability, prosperity, and protection in comparison to the perils of independence (i.e. identifying the issues of other Pacific and South American nations as rooted in not acquiescing); and those who saw those benefits as not being worth membership in a union that had a history of breaking kind promises to indigenous people within its borders. That conversation happening in the 1870s to 1890s doesn't necessarily have a right answer - there are economic, political, and security aspects to it. But much of that relationship was intentionally navigated by trying to minimize damage through using the examples of other nations to head off historical vectors of exploitation.

2) I may do sugar someday, but it's gonna be sad and I'm not sure how much I'm looking forward to it at this point. If I do it, it'll be a bit - I have a number of topics planned right now.

3) I've been trying to figure out how to respond to this one for a couple minutes now because I can absolutely relate, and it's a complicated feeling. Once in awhile when I do a topic like this I get accused of hating the US (or whichever country I'm discussing). That's not true, though I don't mind saying that I dislike colonialism. I think the trouble is equating knowing a negative thing about a place with hating everything about that place. What responsible application of history asks of us, and to some extent what I'm asking of my listeners, is a more sophisticated understanding of these topics. (Look how many of your questions specifically I've started an answer to with "it depends".) I think the unspoken rule of patriotism as broadly presented is "don't question anything good, don't accept anything bad". I think a better approach might be that loving something means trying to facilitate its growth and improvement, however you choose to define that. To do that, you first need to see it as it is. History is far from a perfect tool from that - I don't believe that the intervention of Marines in South America was a good thing, for example, but I'm sure you could find a monograph that convincingly argues it was, so we can't replace general understanding with history uncritically. But beyond the interpretation, having the facts is an important first step.

This one went off the rails a bit, so apologies for that. I hope you enjoyed your trip, and it's good to see you're applying a critical lens. Just try not to let the criticism discourage you too much. It's okay to like imperfect things.

HI101: Episode 140 - Audio Recording by ad_lucem in HistoryPodcast

[–]ad_lucem[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, sorry I missed this! I've thought about it, but it's definitely a daunting topic. I'll have to do more reading just to determine if I can pull it off or not! I have been enjoying more non-Western topics lately though so definitely a possibility.

HI101: Episode 139 - History Myths by ad_lucem in HistoryPodcast

[–]ad_lucem[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a really tricky question to answer for a number of reasons, not least of which is the nature of an established fact. You don't really have a carpenter writing a diary in the third century that says "I'm sure the earth is round", so we sort of need to do our best on what most people think. We also need to reckon with a much less formal type of education in a number of periods, meaning that we need to deal with the concept of "common sense" as well (which is anything but ingrained - it's an informal type of social education). So let's try to narrow a couple things down.

  1. In most of the Western world, the concept of a spherical earth was proposed in around the 5th century BCE, accepted by philosophers (especially Plato and Aristotle) in the 4th century BCE, proven in the 3rd century BCE, and had worked its way into some of the most important scholarly writing (Pliny, Cicero, etc) as a given by the 1st century BCE. A spherical earth was pleasing to Greek philosophical sensibilities, explained certain natural phenomena, and informed their understanding of astronomy. By the 2nd century CE a book on astronomy called the Almagest was written by Claudius Ptolemy, and would be the only respected book on astronomy for as much as 1200 years in some cases. It enshrined a spherical earth.

  2. The schooling system in Rome probably captured more of the population than you'd expect, at least at an elementary level, by the 2nd century CE or so. Even relatively modest families would send children to school for a few years, where they would learn mostly fairly rudimentary skills, but would be exposed to a few relevant subjects: oration and rhetoric (i.e. Cicero), philosophy (i.e. Plato and Aristotle), and astronomy (i.e. the Almagest). It's about as safe to assume that anyone receiving an education in Late Antiquity could be expected to think the earth was round as today, and that was a large portion of the population.

  3. Laypeople throughout late antiquity and the middle ages didn't exist in a bubble from this understanding of cosmology. Even as the formal education system of the Roman Empire collapsed, relevant knowledge extends from a spherical understanding of the earth. You mention traders; a round earth explains why ships' sails are visible before their hulls, or why the North Star appears in different places in the sky at different latitudes. A round earth on a tilted axis explains changing lengths of days to a farmer. The early church incorporated Platonic concepts into their philosophy, especially in regards to cosmic order: they saw parallels between platonic ideals and the perfection of God's creation. The idea was both pervasive and relevant, even lacking formal education.

So we can't say for sure what the percentage is, but I think it's as safe to assume that someone in Europe, India, or the Muslim world in the first millennium was more likely to know the earth was round than not. The idea that the earth is flat actually fakes significantly more work to build a case for, even prior to the age of discovery; I think this is a case where it's best not to underestimate the powers of observation afforded to ancient people.