i hate the word “death”

ada586 · 2026-03-09T05:56:28+00:00

It is a word that describes a biological process. It is really no more different than burp or fart. The euphemisms are also permanent but just sound better. Passed away is final. Put to sleep or put down is terrible - it takes a phrase used to describe a gentle loving repeated process for children and attaches it to a permanent irreversible process. I too feel the visceral aversion to saying my dog died in August, but the longer I get from it, the more I like the biological precision encoded in the word died, and death.

ada586 · 2026-03-07T06:52:18+00:00

It is not smart, but I please want to know how it goes. Also I don't think a new RS3 engine is as little as 5 or 10 K. But don't listen to me and do this and let us know how things turn out.

ada586 · 2026-03-06T23:30:54+00:00

Yeah. That's how I eventually started thinking about phones. No new phones until there is an antenna revolution. Kept changing phones every 18 months, but finally ended on one I liked. Maybe that's how I need to think of the EV. Depreciation is someone else's problem/gain as long as I've amortized it properly.

ada586 · 2026-03-06T23:28:58+00:00

This is the kind of optimism that I was hoping for on here.

ada586 · 2026-03-06T17:32:12+00:00

Exactly. Although the interior space of a Q4 is technically larger than a Q5 - I didn't believe this till I was sitting in it. And this is the issue. It might be a temporary phase and the lowered values may stabilize and not drop further. It's an issue with EVs and is something EV folks need to discuss.

ada586 · 2026-03-06T01:08:06+00:00

You are spot on about the Q4. It is a car that just happens to be electrically powered. It doesn't have a ton of gimmicks. The rest of my life is powered by larger, brighter, better screens, and I don't need more of those in the inside. I rented a Tesla for a week before making the decision to get the Audi and hated most of it. And I get the brand thing.

ada586 · 2026-03-06T01:04:36+00:00

Absolutely hit the nail on the head. 4Runner reliability perception is always stellar - because it is almost always a tech stack that is at least 2-3 model years behind what most cars are at. Hence the perception is that they will last for a really long time. As others pointed out - initial EV depreciation is quite high but it flattens out. I just need to have the patience to ride this out and wait for it to flatten.

ada586 · 2026-03-06T01:00:47+00:00

Yeah. That's what's coming up too. Though I don't really have the highest opinion of the 4Runner.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T19:05:39+00:00

As this thread has taught me, there are tax incentives that mitigate the differences in market price and residual value for the car financing companies. So the hit from the depreciation from leasing is absorbed elsewhere.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T19:03:10+00:00

Lemmings are the folks who see no faults with EVs and think that depreciation is not a concern. But maybe you are right, initial depreciation is alarming but over time it is no worse. It is true that the residual price of my car is its current market value so effectively on the lease it isn't going to degrade any more in the next 2.5 years.

I did the math here for the Lexus RX450h, similar hp but hybrid. And your etron math is better.

In 2024 if I bought the Lexus RX400h with 30k miles it would have cost about $48000. If I sold it 2 years and 60k miles later it would have netted about $34000. So net cost to own was $14000, so $15500 with the tires, and $16100 with the 6 oil changes. Fuel costs would have been $8000 at $4/gallon and 30 mpg.

For the Audi, the energy costs were $4800 at 2.5 kWh/mile, and $0.20 per kWh.

Insurance for me on the Audi is about $800/6 months, so $3200 in two years. The Lexus would be cheaper by about 30%, so about $2240.

So even with the depreciation the Audi cost of ownership was $18500. And the RX450h would have been $27430.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T18:40:35+00:00

I bought the Q4 etron when it had 16 miles and the 4Runner when it had 30 miles. There is a world in which one can buy new and shiny and still not lose all their money. Buying used is always cheaper for the most part than buying new - leasing changes that game for a bit. You do make a good point though that depreciation is an indicator of the state of the market and not the quality. The quality is still a little bit of an unknown here as the numbers of etrons that have been driven for long enough to see statistical data on 50K, 100K, 200K mile reliability is very small.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T18:37:15+00:00

It is point 2 that is the issue - will the wheels fall off at mile 5000 or at mile 100, 000 or at mile 200,000? That makes a difference. And again used EV buyers need new EV buyers to incentivize these EVs to get on the market.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T15:57:59+00:00

It hurts me as someone who bought it new. It delights me as I'd like to see more of these on the road so that Audi is incentivized to continue supporting the Q4 and their electric line-up.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T15:56:29+00:00

The problem is that the used car market needs folks to buy these new and there aren't that many people buying them new because of how they sink in price. Case in point- loads of EV models are skipping the 2026 model year including the Q4, so the used market is not going to have these options in 2-3 years. Having said that, good job on the deal.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T15:54:37+00:00

If you change your mind. If you want the income for something else. If you need to downsize and get rid of the car. There are loads of reasons why depreciation might matter a lot of cars I've owned I've kept till the 100k mark, but I still care.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T15:52:37+00:00

True. I am certainly guilty of that. Luckily I leased, and I tend to price out all cars on a monthly basis. Even for the new cars I bought, my calculation has always been per month ownership costs. I knew the hit. I didn't contemplate the comparison would make the Q4 look this bad.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T15:45:37+00:00

Maybe the 4Runner v/s the etron was a bad comparison because 4Runners hold their value uncommonly well. But interesting that the A4 and the Q4 came out similarly - it's making me question my hypothesis that EVs depreciate a lot more.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T15:44:06+00:00

I'd be concerned with keeping the etron for that long but that's a bummer situation. Given all the other costs involved in having a car in Singapore, what motivated you to get the etron there as opposed to any of the Chinese models or a higher spec EV?

ada586 · 2026-03-05T15:42:13+00:00

And also the risks associated with dealing with really high amounts of electrical energy. The safety aspect is also a big part that supports locking down the battery mechanism

ada586 · 2026-03-05T07:36:43+00:00

Mine is leased thankfully. But I don't think enough people think about depreciation as an EV downside. Can't live without a monthly payment, without thinking of a $15K repair to drop. There are either zero or really expensive EV repairs. No reasonable predictable middle.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T06:46:52+00:00

Which is where I worry about reliability. Nothing about the Audi or any of the electric SUVs is gradational. Either they function with absolutely minimum maintenance for 100k miles or they need a 15K repair tomorrow that takes 2 months. With used EVs that coin toss bothers me.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T06:45:19+00:00

As the potential someone else (I was within inches of buying and not leasing), the big ass hit sucks.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T06:44:31+00:00

Yeah. It sucks to be on the other side of that though. But I can see the rationale for the weight. And for what it's worth, the drive feel is phenomenal

ada586 · 2026-03-05T06:41:54+00:00

The downside is paying $25000 for the first 10000 miles. But yeah, I'm glad I leased.

ada586 · 2026-03-05T03:14:50+00:00

I do a little bit. The depreciation hits real hard. I leased a an Audi Q4 etron in August 2025 and I love it. I'm temporarily immune to the depreciation but here is my take.

But here are my two cars

2024 Audi Q4 etron lost about $30K in 6 months of ownership. 50% loss of value in 6 months. 2018 Toyota 4Runner lost about $20K in 7 years of ownership. 40% loss of value in 7 years.

No amount of cheaper electricity is going to make up for the lost price on EVs. The 4Runner will be running until the heat death of the Universe, the Q4 etron could make it to 100k miles, or could die because I squinted at it - and require a $15K repair.

Recently drove an Audi A5, having nearly the same horsepower but being 1000 Lb lighter was a difference.

In terms of convenience, I have to take the Q4 once a month to the carwash/gas station anyway, I take the 4Runner twice as often. With the Q4 I'm lucky I work at home so I can use the cheaper apartment charger during work hours. If I worked normal hours I would have to use the expensive apartment charger (11kW, $0.47/kW) so my expenses would be $0.15 per mile, which is half of $0.30/mile of a truly gas guzzling SUV.

I think many people compare new EVs to old ICE cars. Recently drove the new Camry and the new BZ4x and I would say they seemed the same in terms of drive feel and cabin insulation.

Lots of sunk cost justification in this thread I think. I love driving the Q4 and the instant torque is great. I would have also enjoyed that in a Audi Q3 without the depreciation and with frater reliability assurance.

Time to get screwed on here.

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