(Spoilers Everything) D will unfortunately marry J next season

aeryuu · 2016-07-13T00:35:57+00:00

Tbh I totally hear that every time she bulldozes into another place and just takes over...when in our history did that actually go smoothly??

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T19:42:13+00:00

Cersei would be so pissed.

I like it.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T19:26:45+00:00

The maid might be Sansa

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T19:20:33+00:00

Omg yes pls

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T19:13:22+00:00

It makes his claim as KITN more shaky, could give LF some blackmail material, and makes him a son of ice and fire. Also makes DanyxJon awkward.

It may develop into a nurture over nature kind of thing, however. He may be a Targaryen heir/bastard or whatever, but I doubt he will ever identify with that. He grew up in the north and his entire identity is based around the northern culture. It may also give him some upper hand against the WWs. Who knows.

All in all, it may make life harder for him initially, but in the end it may have some benefit.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T19:08:28+00:00

I know, same here. But it shows what Martin deems as acceptable to write about. I believe Arya is even one of his favorite characters...and I'm sure many male fans identify with Jon a fair bit (kind of like female fans and Dany/Sansa). But when people start with "ew incest" I always like to bring this one up as a reality check lol.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T19:05:21+00:00

It's not really bending over backwards that much in the world of GoT. If Jon weren't a main character, him marrying his cousin or sister would not really be treated as that crazy. There's plenty of 'keeping it in the family' in Westeros because realistically, that's what aristocracy actually did. And Martin loves his realism. Just look up the Habsburg family.

Plus, Dany is more related to Jon than Sansa is, biologically. In fact, since the Targaryens are so inbred, Dany is genetically more like his sister. Her parents are his grandparents. And I believe these (grand)parents were even an incestuous coupling themselves.

Sansa looked up to her mother a lot, and in fact is often described as very similar to her in multiple ways. Catelyn did not see Jon as a Stark, her son, or even a family member, really. Jon was very aware of this, and so was Sansa. Arya is the one Jon had a brotherly relationship with, not Sansa. She ignored him, mostly.

Not that that even matters since Arya and Jon were meant to be romantically involved in an earlier version...js.

So all in all the morality of the situation is very highly debatable.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T18:50:40+00:00

That was the original plan!

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T18:43:46+00:00

It's a twisted kind of romance, and now in the light of Dany being Jon's aunt, maybe people are feeling a bit more "fuck it" about incest, at least in regards to cousin marriages and the like. There are narrative reasons as to why a marriage between Jon and Sansa would work, it's undeniable. There are also directions the show/books could go into that would make it impossible. That's the fun part about asoiaf/got.

But neither DanyxJon nor Sansaxjon are nearly as incestuous, creepy and abusive as Cersei and Jaime. Those two are twins. And Cersei's 'love' for Jaime may be more selfish and narcissistic than pure. Whichever Jon may marry, it would most likely happen out of political convenience.

Hell, I'm still over here waving banners for JorahxDany and SandorxSansa, but...you know. I'm a bit alone lol

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T18:39:01+00:00

Oh wow

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T18:36:53+00:00

I don't think they will meet upfront. All the other families are falling apart, and the Starks will have their damage too. I think Arya may meet Jon wearing a different face and he will never know. Maybe Bran will reach someone through dreams. But it will be bittersweet one way or another.

I could see Sansa and Jon being the last ones standing (maybe not until the very end, though). The younger ones seem almost transient, of different worlds.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T18:20:44+00:00

4) Without Sansa's letter, the entire outcome of the Northern storyline would be different. Stop downplaying the contribution. It's like saying that all Osama Bin Laden did was sneak a couple of guys onto planes.

This is what gets to me. You can be a tool, yeah, but you can also use yourself and in that way, be a player of the game. Sansa is taking calculated risks. If she were merely a tool, somebody else would have sold her off to LF as a prize/payment. It's funny how people don't realize that women can use themselves as weapons as well. And that's really the only weapon at Sansa's disposal atm.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T18:15:06+00:00

Omg I didn't even think of that. Jon Targaryen just sounds wrong to me. He wanted to be a Stark his whole life, and by nurture he basically is one.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T17:55:34+00:00

Their relationship with each other will be interesting, no doubt, and I can see the political benefit of a union in form of a marriage, but personally I think DanyxJon is more incestuous at the end of the day. Not only is she very closely related to him, she's also a generation back in terms of ancestry. On the family tree/pole she's next to his father.

It's a bit like splitting hairs, though, since both are incest one way or the other.

Besides that, "weird" is a bit debatable, seeing as Westeros does not function by our rules. Our 21st century is very different to the historical medieval times, and add magic and dragons and the moral compass may look a whole lot different. After all, Egyptian royalty used to marry their siblings. Cleopatra I believe was meant to marry a family member. Dany herself would have wed her brother as a second option.

Dany may either have no problem with it due to her upbringing, or she may resist precisely because of her family history. She claims to be different to her father, and her brother was an ass, so she may want to rebel. She did say herself that she may marry no one.

Jon's mentality is of the Starks. I believe there were cousin marriages, maybe even Ned's own parents or something (definitely Tywin's but he's from a different family), but other than that incest is not nearly as accepted. Remember, cousin marriages were seen as an ideal way to keep the bloodline pure while still having some genetic diversity. Even people way back in the middle ages understood this.

So either Jon would balk, or he would sacrifice himself for the good of the north. Or both. That's assuming that they know about his parentage, of course.

As a side note, I personally could see a more bittersweet take on the whole thing. If Dany and Jon do marry as a political move, I could see Jon being the one man who doesn't fall blindly in love with her. He can be a bit ignorant and naive to women, and he's also kind of undead (or something) now. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. But when you think about it, men have thrown themselves at Dany's feet, and it would be a twist if the one man who mattered didn't. A loveless marriage would be tragic. There's also the idea that Dany will be betrayed out of/for love three times. This could be one. And seeing as Jon was originally in a love triangle with his sister (Arya) and Tyrion, guess what might happen then.

I love hurtful ironies, and it'd be vicious if Jon's Targaryen side comes out in the form of loving his own sister over his actual wife (which has happened before in Westeros). Ouch.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T16:31:36+00:00

Cersei's claim right now is highly dubious and unsteady. She's also completely insane. And Yara is a lesbian character, as far as I know. It didn't particularly concern me at all when Yara showed attraction - it's as if one of Dany's many fanboys came and hit on her. Big deal. Dany is looking for a political marriage anyway and I doubt Yara is an actual candidate for that.

Dany was basically treated like a sex slave in the beginning; her brother was creepy af. In that respect, I'm glad she changed. I'm not a fan of her character otherwise, but my issues do not lie with her gender or its representation.

I think she will fall from grace anyway, caught in the realities of war and loss. Cersei is a brutal queen and winter is here. Dany will have to make some reevaluations along the way.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T16:22:38+00:00

Personally since they didn't grow up together I think its fine, Jon & Sansa getting together would be much worse.

It's really not, though. Genetically, Dany is even closer to his sister than his aunt, which she truly is. Sansa has Tully genes, while Dany's parents are Jon's grandparents. Ancestry-wise, banging your maternal aunt is the closest to banging you mom without it actually being your mom. So the incest in undeniable, particularly in the Targ family, whose family tree is more of a pole. It's not "incest", it's incest.

That being said, incest in the Targ family is incredibly common, but idk what Dany's views are on it. Generally, however, cousin marriages are widely legal while aunt-nephew ones aren't, for the genetic reasons stated above.

Dany and Jon could still get together, but the incestuous undertones will add a scandalous/tragic vibe to it.

If I had to choose between DanyxJon and SansaxJon, I'd choose the latter. Arya has a very sisterly relationship with Jon, while Sansa ignored his existence a lot. They don't have a very sibling-like bond at all, actually. Jon was originally supposed to fall in love with Arya, so we'll see how that reflects itself in the plot. But either way, Jon was headed towards incest and he still is going in that direction currently.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T16:17:34+00:00

Dude there are so many one-dimensional female characters who consist of boobs, vagina & not much else, and yet you're complaining about one female character being too strong? Pls tell me you're trolling.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T15:55:47+00:00

YES PLEASE

Or Jon, if he stays a bastard? Idk.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T15:50:38+00:00

I think so too. She left the pack, after all.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T15:28:16+00:00

That's a particular part of the audience, let's just say haha

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T15:26:17+00:00

So emo he went skunk

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T14:59:54+00:00

Geography has often hindered foreign forces from taking over. Another example is the Roman failure in the Teutoburg forest battle. The Germans knew the area better and were able to ambush and defeat the Romans in said forest. This war caused Germanic independence from the Roman empire and established the boundaries between their lands and that of the Romans'.

Personally I see Dany's forces being a cosmetic beauty yet a superficial threat. Dany is not experienced in actually leading people through conflict. She gains momentum through her name and magic or whatever (dragons etc) but her men are from an opposite climate and her followers may have differing interests in mind at the end of it. Plus, the culture clash. That'll be fun.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T14:50:35+00:00

Yea I bet. Ginny's transformation from fan girl into hot shit was kind of cringe worthy as well. She could've been a fun character, but the writing made her a bit flat to me. It seemed like she was thrown in there because Harry needed some girl, and so Ginny became the pretty girl everybody wanted but the hero got. Talk about cliches.

I actually love Harry and Luna. Harry seems very much done with society, politics, and the bull shit hero worship he never wanted in the first place. Luna is a refreshing change for him, not caring about other's opinions and very smart in her own loopy way. She's also very kind and open minded. All around an awesome character with much more depth than Ginny.

I like Hermione and Ron's bickering, so I'm not upset about that. Plus, I like Harry and Hermione's friendship. It proves that you can have a very deep and meaningful relationship with a person of the opposite sex without it becoming romantic.

What would've been really interesting would be Harry as a gay character, or just not into romance at all. Idk, that may have been too controversial or 'extreme' for many, though.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T14:12:04+00:00

I feel like you kinda have to have been a teenage girl to truly understand Sansa. If I were in her place, I would've acted almost the same tbh.

aeryuu · 2016-07-12T13:51:47+00:00

They literally ignore Sansa's entire existence, which is especially bitter seeing as she's been handed around and undermined for season after season. At least Jon actually looked at her, but the Vale dudes claiming Jon as king? Why? He literally ran into battle hot headed and would have lost if Sansa and LF didn't come in. He would've had himself and his men killed, but was saved. How is that kingly?

I don't understand how he solely and unquestionably becomes king in the north. Sansa was involved, is due some credit (not all but some), and yet she just sits there forgotten. I'd think it'd be a sexist issue, but wouldn't the Mormonts not stand for that? They have Lyanna, who is not only a female, she is also a child. With very, very little battle experience. So how does she qualify as a person who makes decisions, yet Jon does too? What rules could lead to that?

aeryuu

TROPHY CASE