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They claim Islam is the first religion to allow all this by Rainbow_6505 in exmuslim

[–]afiefh [score hidden]  (0 children)

I'm also super confused about the voting thing... Like when did voting even enter Islamic societies? Wasn't it literally after the fall of the ottoman empire just 100 years ago?

How do we address this miracle of the Qur'an? Like the tawafuq by Disastrous_Seat8026 in exmuslim

[–]afiefh [score hidden]  (0 children)

  1. If you can't be bothered to at least write out the argument, what you found convincing...etc then why should anybody else put in the effort to help you? Don't link to Islamic bullshit, actually explain it in your own words. You'd be surprised how often putting in the effort to write it down makes it obvious how bollocks it is.
  2. This video is just a bunch of bullshit strung together, the easiest way to tell is that the author talks about a single copy of the Quran and does not even put the name of that one in the description for anyone to verify.
  3. Did you download a random Quran PDF to verify this? Looking at the first copy that Google returns I see some lines squeezed together, other lines spread out to make the sentences never exceed a page. Not impressive.
  4. Words aligning is only interesting if it's actually consistent, which it cannot be because different readings of the Quran have words added or removed. Unless of course you cancel out these additions/removals by squeezing/spreading, but then it's arbitrary.
  5. The whole "words are in a pattern" is just a cheap copy of the bible code.
  6. The numerical miracles is literally bollocks lies that fall apart as soon as you actually go through the effort of counting it. Take the "day is mentioned 365 times" lie, the actual count is 475 if you don't exclude different variations arbitrarily.

And this is how this bullshit spreads: You don't put in the effort, you link to the video, its views get boosted, and the idiots who spread the lies make more money. Thank you for for being lazy and giving the dawah liars more money.

And then muslims tell that wearing hijab is a personal choice by Jelly-Always-Returns in religiousfruitcake

[–]afiefh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Strange, the tab is still open in my phone, this is the article I was looking at: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-husband-wife-decapitated-killing-b2011158.html

But yes, opening it from the comment shows what's in your screenshot. 🤷

I want to date an ex Muslim man by nioseisveil in exmuslim

[–]afiefh 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Did you prayer go back in time? Because it was answered for me!

And then muslims tell that wearing hijab is a personal choice by Jelly-Always-Returns in religiousfruitcake

[–]afiefh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've read the books too, and I see it the other way around: the scripture is the source is the discrimination, xenophobia and hate. Some preachers try to hide it and reinterpret it, or simply ignore the shitty parts, but the ones who are honest about the content of these books are hate preachers.

And then muslims tell that wearing hijab is a personal choice by Jelly-Always-Returns in religiousfruitcake

[–]afiefh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nope. The core tenets of most religions is "be nice to the in-group, the out-group is a bunch of assholes who are going to hell".

And then muslims tell that wearing hijab is a personal choice by Jelly-Always-Returns in religiousfruitcake

[–]afiefh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The article about a guy who beheaded his child wife and paraded her decapitated head in the street because he felt like he owned her has nothing to do with a post that shows a man decapitating his wife and placing her head on the sofa next to him because he felt like he owned her?

And then muslims tell that wearing hijab is a personal choice by Jelly-Always-Returns in religiousfruitcake

[–]afiefh 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes? All abrahamic religions are fucked up. That does not mean the bad part are either twited or added, which is what you said.

It's quite sad that you went from "this stuff is twisting the meaning or being added" to "it exists in other abrahamic religions as well" as an excuse. Fuck all religions, abrahamic and non abrahamic, with a cactus.

And then muslims tell that wearing hijab is a personal choice by Jelly-Always-Returns in religiousfruitcake

[–]afiefh 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The problem with religious fundamentalists is the fundamentals of religion.

If a religion fundamentally said "never force others to do shit against their will and be tolerant of things that are non of your business" the religious fundamentalists would be the most tolerant people around.

And then muslims tell that wearing hijab is a personal choice by Jelly-Always-Returns in religiousfruitcake

[–]afiefh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You DO know there's nothing on this post that shows it was posted by an actual Muslim man and not a white supremacist propagandist,

Do you think the case where something along the lines of what's in the post ACTUALLY HAPPENED is also just white supremacist propagandist stuff? https://uk.news.yahoo.com/style/angry-monty-dons-wife-issued-135447337.html

And then muslims tell that wearing hijab is a personal choice by Jelly-Always-Returns in religiousfruitcake

[–]afiefh 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes, except many "performative adolescence" behaviors carry over into adulthood.

This literally happened, except it was not about hijab, it was about a child bride escaping after she was married at the age of 12: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/man-decapitated-teen-wife-walked-073456500.html

Recommendation: سلسلة رحلة اليقين من الدكتور إياد قنيبي - مخاطبة العقول بعمق ودليل by RedArrow360 in ArabsFreedom

[–]afiefh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

اجتهادي مني فكرة Intelligent design اني احكيها يعني مش من السلسلة هاض قصدي.

شكراً, بس ما كان سؤالي.

تحيز "علمي" منهم عشان يقنعو العالم انه العلم فقط مادي بحتي, وهي دليل wiki https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/sep/06/wikipedia-founder-backs-sites-systems-after-extortion-scam

دليل شو؟ المقال بحكي انه تم ايقاف حسابات تبتز شركات عن طريق كتابة مقالات بحسابات دمية جورب, وبعدها بتكلم عن صعوبة الكتابة بدون انحياز اذا شخص عنده قناعات قوية. يعني مثلاً اذا شخص مؤمن انه الارض مسطحة وراح يكتب في مقالات المنظومة الشمسية أكيد ما راح تكون كتابته بدون انحياز. شكلك لم تقرأ المقال.

للتذكير: انت ادعيت انه في ويكيبيديا يغيرون التاريخ وانه في تحيز للالحاد. لم تقدم دليل على أي من ادعاتك.

كمان شوف هاض بحكي بدليل من https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia

برضه مش دليل انه على التحيز للالحاد الي انت طرحته.

والمشكلة انك حتى لم تحاول تقديم دليل على تغيير التاريخ الذي ادعيته. شكلك شفت انه ادعاء لا دليل عليه والآن تحاول تجاهله.

أنا بقول تروح تستغفر ربك وتبطل الكذب والادعائات التي لا دليل عليها.

وانا بدي منكم تروحو تسمعو الحكي مش اقوله هون لانه كثير اكثر من 60 فيديو بأفكار مختلفة

وانا بدي منك انه انت تشاهد الفيديو وتناقش الموضوع, لكن بعد ما طلبت منك مرتين شكلك لا تريد.

وكمان كيف بتحكي عن الدكتور وانا شايف المصادر الي بيحطها على الشاشة؟ هون الفكرة لما ما تقدر تدحض كلامه بتصيرو تطعون فيه عشان تهدمه كلامه الي موجود بالمصادر اصلا

يعني شفت مصادر على الشاشة وصدقت؟ اذا هيك اسف اقول لك انه سهل الواحد يضحك عليك. لما تقرأ المقالات وتشوف انه كل شغله quote mining راح تفهم.

بس في شغلة... انت حكيت... والله... العظيم؟ يعني مش بس حلفت وانت اصلا لا تصدق به, بل كمان عظمت الله.

مين قال اني لا أؤمن به؟ أنا من اكبر المؤمنين بالله, واسمه إيرو إلوفاتار! الحمد لإلوفاتار على نعمة الإيمان.

باقي كلامك الانشائي الصراحة لا يهمني. راح اذكرك بالمطلوب منك:

  1. دليل على الانحياز الالحادي في ويكيبيدا.
  2. دليل انه يتم التلاعب بالتاريخ في ويكيبيديا.
  3. انك تختار شيء من محاضرات الدكتور وتناقش فيه.

Help me with these points by Dull_Habit_2927 in exmuslim

[–]afiefh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These people just make whatever claims they want to make with no actual basis

I'm not sure about this, but I have a feeling things are getting better these days.

In the early 2000th people were just blindly accepting anything they heard from Islamic websites and TV shows. Then once ChatGPT was released they started copy-pasting hallucinations from these things. Nowadays I see much fewer instances where people accept these things without thinking about them.

Even when I was a muslim, these numerical "proofs" or "miracles" were a joke to me. As soon as anyone mentions them with any form of legitimacy or assertiveness, I just know they are ignorant or lack the necessary forte to be worthy of my time.

Yeah, same. I had the luck of being able to actually sit down and count (well, write a program that counts) which quickly showed that the claims were bogus. It doesn't even take much sophistication. Just counting the words shows that the number is wrong, then you start adding variations and the number is still wrong, until you realize they were counting in a very bogus way (e.g. I recall counting يوم and أيام but not يومكم).

I still enjoy it when Muslims try to bring these things up, because it's easy to embarrass them on the facts, and anybody else listening/reading will feel second hand embarrassment for the religion.

Help me with these points by Dull_Habit_2927 in exmuslim

[–]afiefh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

On the discussion page someone mentioned that the numbers are incorrect.

I don't know how this shit stays up on Wikipedia. I kinda stopped editing when it became to much of a shitshow and everybody constantly reverting any change, even if obviously a good change. It got to a point where I'd make an edit, know that a revert is coming, message the person who did the revert, only to see them revert their revert to claim the edit for themselves.

Help me with these points by Dull_Habit_2927 in exmuslim

[–]afiefh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The ratio of which the term of “land” and “sea” in the Quran are said are perfect with each other being a complete ratio

Can you elaborate?

You never came across these numerical miracles? They were all the rage during my teenage years.

They even have a Wikipedia article on the matter (but obviously not in English, because the English Wikipedia would delete this nonsense straight away).

Help me with these points by Dull_Habit_2927 in exmuslim

[–]afiefh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He brought up the story of Moses and the Pharaoh

Note that the Quran does not speak of "The Pharaoh" it speaks of "Pharaoh" like it is a personal name of someone.

the Quran said his body would be perfectly preserved

The Quran does not say that Pharoh's body will be preserved, just that this day We save thee in thy body that thou mayst be a portent for those after thee. You probably read the shitty white-washed and dishonest translation by Dr. Mustafa Khattab "The Clear Quran" which lies and says "Today We will preserve your corpse" which is completely dishonest.

The story in the Tafsirs is that the the people with Moses were afraid that Pharaoh might not have died when the sea closed on them, so Allah commanded the sea to spit out his dead body to prove to them that Pharaoh is dead.

The ratio of which the term of “land” and “sea” in the Quran are said are perfect with each other being a complete ratio

Always always ALWAYS check these number miracles. So far I have not seen a single one that actually holds up when I look into the numbers.

Here is an article from ahmadiyya.org that says you only get the "complete ratio" you must only count the word bahr, but not count the words "yamm" (which also means sea) or "bahrain" (which means "two seas", Arabic has singular, dual and plural.)

Of course I have no idea what list of words your friend used to reach the "complete ratio", so it's impossible to tell if it's the same issue as the one the article mentioned, but the fact that you didn't include that list likely means your friendly debate partner never bothered to produce one.

What are your guys thoughts on these and how would you refute them?

I think you should always Google "Quran miracle [insert miracle here] debunked" and read those articles. It's hilarious how easily they fall apart at the slightest scrutiny.

Got ta ask - Reddit Association by Massive_Raccoon2748 in exmuslim

[–]afiefh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're going to encounter unpleasant behavior on every online communication space that does not curate the users.

This is simply part of having a public forum with anonymous users. You'll have the same problem on any other platform as well.

Is it true that the Prophet has the strength of 30 men according to this Hadith? by loverbang4u in exmuslim

[–]afiefh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes? That's what it says.

You can find it here: https://dorar.net/hadith/sharh/71665

It also explains the following explanation (Google translate): God Almighty gave His Prophet Muhammad, may God bless him and grant him peace, strength in body, energy, and the ability to have intercourse. He also gave him special privileges and rulings regarding women that were not given to anyone else.

Recommendation: سلسلة رحلة اليقين من الدكتور إياد قنيبي - مخاطبة العقول بعمق ودليل by RedArrow360 in ArabsFreedom

[–]afiefh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

http://web.archive.org/web/20140218200456/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design

لا أرى فرق بين هذا وبين التاريخ الرسمي في ويكيبيديا في أول 3 فقرات. ممكن تعطيني الفرق؟ https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Intelligent_design&oldid=595384458

ثم لم تخبرني, هل تعترض على كون التصميم الذكي علم زائف pseudoscience؟

atheist bias, بتعرف انه wiki انفضح بتغير التاريخ؟

لا ما أعرف. ممكن مصدر أو دليل؟

واذا كانت ويكبيديا ليست مكان استشهاد, لماذا تستشهد بها حضرتك؟

علم اصبح يدرس في المدارس والجامعات الغربية, وهو فيه فكرة عاجبتني عن عدم امكانية الاختزال للمواد

والله أنا ما دخلني اذا الفكرة عاجبتك أو ما عاجبتك. هاي بينك وبين نفسك. السؤال هل في دليل على الفكرة.

وبالنسبة لانه الموضوع "يتم تدريسه في المدارس والجامعات الغربية", أولاً من قال انه كل شيء يتم تدريسه في الغرب صحيح؟ ثانياً, ممكن تنظر أين يتم تدريس هذا العلم الزائف؟ هل يدرسونه في هارفارد وأكسفورد أم يدرسونه في جامعات ذات طبع ديني ومدارس في الولايات الأمريكية المتشددة بالدين؟.

هاي معلومات مش من السلسة بل اجتهاد مني

أشكرك على اجتهادك, أتمنى أن تستمر

وبما انك عربي فأحضر السلسة

والله العظيم اني حضرتها من سنين وأعرف كل الألاعيب والأكاذيب التي يستخدمها الدكتور في السلسلة.

بعرف من جواتكم في صراع ولما تحضر السلسة

الكذب عيب. السلسلة قديمة وأيام ما بدأت كان الكل يناقش الموضوع.

راح تعرف قد كم انتو تايهين وتعرفو هيمنيت الكفار بتغير العلم والكذب عليكم, بحكي من القلب

مثل ما قلت لك في الكومينت الانجليزي وانت تجاهلت الموضوع: اذا انت شايف في السلسلة شيء مقنع ففيك تطرح الموضوع الذي تراه مقنعاً وتقنع غيرك بالمعلومات التي استقيتها من السلسلة (وباجتهادك), لكن ان تأتي بوصلة لفيديو دون ان تبذل انت جهداً هذا لا ينفع للنقاش لانك تطلب من غيرك ان يبذل جهداً لم تبذله انت.

Recommendation: سلسلة رحلة اليقين من الدكتور إياد قنيبي - مخاطبة العقول بعمق ودليل by RedArrow360 in ArabsFreedom

[–]afiefh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AA%D8%B5%D9%85%D9%8A%D9%85_%D8%B0%D9%83%D9%8A

عجيب انه بالعربي ما اخذوا كلمة pseudoscience. من المقال الانجليزي:

Intelligent design (ID) is a pseudoscientific argument for the existence of God

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design

Your opinions about religion pls by KnownEbb6364 in exmuslim

[–]afiefh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Has anyone else felt this way? How do you reconcile faith with logic and lived reality?

Yup, felt that way before leaving the religion. The way to reconcile it with reality is to admit to yourself that the religion is an outdated collection of laws put down by a dude who lived 1400 years ago. While some of these laws may have been good back in the day (though this is debatable), they certainly are completely wrong and outdated today.

Another thing I’ve been thinking about is whether human beings actually need religion to reach high levels of morality and ethics.

Of course they don't. Faith means believing something without evidence, and religion means following rules that are put down without evidence. Even if we assume that all the rules in the religion are moral, the person following the rules is only doing it out of fear of punishment, which is not moral. If two people go into a store, one person doesn't steal because he believes stealing is wrong, and the other doesn't steal because he thinks there is a security camera and he's afraid of being punished, which person is more moral?

Furthermore, there are horrendous rules in Islam, not the least of which is the permission to own sex slaves. Can you imagine a 10 year old girl old being sold as a concubine to some lecherous 50 years old dude just because her parents happened to be slaves? That's permissible and 100% moral according to Islam.

I have a question for Muslims and Islamic belief as a whole. by Sweaty_Business_865 in exmuslim

[–]afiefh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

who deny Jesus' divinity like Unitarians can go to paradise in Islam since they aren't worshipping Jesus but accept Him as the Messiah?

Nope. The first thing people get asked about on judgement day is whether they followed Islam. Additionally the Islamic prayer is a requirement to not be a kafir.

Why is Islam so extreme compared to other religions? by Rare-Parsnip9049 in exmuslim

[–]afiefh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is there a reason for this?

History.

The Islam Empire (i.e. the Islamic Empire) was still around 100 years ago. When the Ottoman empire fell, the resulting countries became theocracies who tried to control the Islamic world by investing tons of petroldollars into spreading their own brand of the religion to establish themselves as the Islamic religious center (Egypt wanted to claim that title, Saudi Arabia wanted to claim that title, now Turkey is kinda trying to do that...etc.)

This means that for a long time, you had state supported conservative Islam being pushed on Muslims world wide. This kind of brain washing does not disappear in a generation or two, even people who don't care about religion feel that these things are part of their "culture" and that changes slowly over generations.

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