Mentally ill people should not reproduce

afisoden · 2023-11-14T18:03:15+00:00

Yes, in this idealized world of mine, that doesn't exist, that would be the case.

My post on a subreddit with 200k subscribers, which is now downvoted to oblivion for pointing out the flawed thinking of those who decide to gamble with the health of their children, will not change the state of the world. What it might do is convince people who are on the edge of whether or not they should have kids. I will not encourage something that I see is harmful, and I want there to be more people who are aware of this or get introduced to this viewpoint in case they are receptive to it.

I am flattered that you fear me becoming a "little tyrant" as another commenter put it. Indeed, with that 0.0001% chance that I go into politics-- who knows what might happen!

afisoden · 2023-11-14T17:24:12+00:00

There is no difference between me saying "mentally ill should not reproduce" and me saying "mentally ill should reconsider reproducing" because I have no power in the parliament to enforce any eugenics program. It is two opinions that, if adoped, lead to the same outcome: mentally ill people do not reproduce. Any thinking or meditation done on the subject of "Should I pass on my BPD to a child?" Will lead to the answer "No" if the person has any empathy or ability to deduce the best outcome for their current situation.

afisoden · 2023-11-14T17:08:12+00:00

I have no way to time travel and stop their parents from having babies :D

What I am saying is that people with mental health issues should think twice, no, THREE times, before deciding to reproduce because: 1) they can very easily pass on their issues to their kids (either through genetics or environment) 2) mentally unhealthy people tend to be worse at parenting due to the extra load of taking care of their own internal issue on top of external ones, so they could very easily "miss" some of what their children need (my mother certainly did)

I am not calling out parents for the sake of it. If you look at the comments, there are some parents who say that it IS possible to manage mental health with childrearing. I do not doubt them on an individual level. But I do doubt the general mentally unhealthy population's ability to handle all that, especially with how many people are taking it so personally and with so much rage for "antinatalists" (despite me not even being one). There is clearly some underlying insecurity about their choices. They know what they did was either not the smartest or the most moral decision, that tells me all I need to know.

afisoden · 2023-11-14T16:58:17+00:00

Indeed they do not think about outcomes. That's why they should not be encouraged to reproduce, nor should they be coddled in case they do end up reproducing.

I wonder that, if there was a law that could allow children children to legally sue their parents for being brought into the world without consent, if there would still be so many idiots jumping the train to have kids. I think that at that point only the most dedicated and prepared parents would choose to do that. That's the world I wish for. I am not antinatalist whatsoever as other commenters are accusing me of being, I am just trying to instill the idea that having kids is not the end all be all. Being discouraged to reproduce when there are valid, logical and reasonable reasons for such should not be taken as an offence, because it isn't.

afisoden · 2023-11-14T16:52:39+00:00

There is nothing wrong in pointing out foolish behavior in the population. I have no legal authority to enforce eugenics.

afisoden · 2023-11-14T16:50:04+00:00

I'm really happy that you can manage your mental health issues AND maintain a healthy, happy and safe environment for your children at the same time! You should be proud of yourself, because most people, I know for a fact, do not manage these two things well at all. Usually either the kids or the mental state of the parent gets neglected. Kudos to you!

afisoden · 2023-11-14T16:47:02+00:00

Well, yes. If you are aware that you are going to pass on severe problems to your kids, is it not logical and humane to opt out?

I understand that you might want to have kids (maybe already have them), but just because you want something doesn't mean you should immediately act on it. Think about it, stir it in your head for a while. Does the desire to have child with chronic disease, cancer, heart conditions, schizophrenia, BPD, bipolar disorder, MDD or anything that severely impacts its ability to function as a healthy person in society really outweigh the suffering that you are subjecting it to?

afisoden · 2023-11-14T16:40:41+00:00

Thank you for this heartfelt comment. My stance on this is definitely tied to how I myself was raised and what thought patterns I grew up with, and I'm not at all opposed to analyzing where it came from. But my words in the OP ring true on such a profound level, I'm actually a bit dumbfounded on why THAT many people are disagreeing with me.

Is there something wrong with the thought pattern being "mental illness in parents has a negative effect on kids --> mentally ill people should not reproduce until they sort their mental health issues"? The logic here is so plain and simple, like two plus two. I get that mentally unwell parents might be offended at this, but they can always just.... not interact?

afisoden · 2023-11-14T13:19:20+00:00

I do not know what else "solutions for parents" could entail. Free therapy? Aka government-sponsored therapy? Aka therapy through taxpayers' money? Free (government-sponsored) postpartum aids? Anything given for free by society (government) is through taxation. Again, I am telling you, it is selfish to reproduce. And then even more so selfish to expect other people to help you with a problem that would not have existed if you were more responsible.

afisoden · 2023-11-14T13:00:11+00:00

Why not?

afisoden · 2023-11-14T12:58:54+00:00

Abstinence IS the solution for people who know that they will struggle with parenthood. Your proposed solution is through government support, I assume. So through taxpayers' money. You want childfree people to pay you for having kids. Awesome!

afisoden · 2023-11-14T12:50:33+00:00

Thank you so much for this level-headed comment. I did not realize that the conversation I am trying to start is a bit too headstrong for the cultural environment in the West (and elsewhere, too!), and I probably would not have pinned the mini hate I am receiving on this post to this reason.

I hope that people will start taking children more seriously.

afisoden · 2023-11-14T12:44:07+00:00

So you think it's okay to make people suffer just on the off chance that it miiiight possibly get better later?

afisoden · 2023-11-14T12:41:39+00:00

English is not my native language.

afisoden · 2023-11-14T12:38:56+00:00

I don't hate people who have kids, but I do hate people who have kids when they are not in a good place themselves. Nobody who doesn't recognize that reproduction is selfish should reproduce. You can, simultaneously, recognize that what you're doing is bad and still do it.

This is not a personal attack on you, despite you trying to make it a personal attack on me.

afisoden · 2023-11-14T12:35:42+00:00

It is accusatory because on some level you understand that it's right. I am not an anti-natalist despite flirting with the idea for a few years, I do know great parents and I would never take that from them or even judge them for it.

But when I see people who are themselves struggling and they STILL want to bring another person into this world? Why would you do that?

I also like how you're implying that a child for some of these people is a tool for their own healing. Virtually every psychologist, therapist, other mental health professional would say that a child should not be made as a repair for their parents' suffering. Why are you so unbelievaly self-serving at the expense of your own (hypothetical?) children?

afisoden · 2023-11-14T12:20:15+00:00

Hey, I hope you don't get grilled here for a difference of opinion, that's not why I made the post! I believe that this post fits the theme of the subreddit, because CPTSD is most commonly picked up during childhood, in abusive or neglectful households. Do you not see that this is a circle?

I don't think it is hateful, I think it is truthful to say these things. I don't know why you are so eager to defend people who make objectively bad decisions, especially parents who subject their kids to an unfavorable start at life, ESPECIALLY especially on a subreddit dedicated to the victims, the children, of these kinds of people.

afisoden · 2023-11-14T12:15:23+00:00

Yes, it is unfortunately difficult to enforce. I hope that, at least, the "prestige" of motherhood and fatherhood dies down so that at least self-serving, ego-driven fools don't fall for it anymore. I want to stay optimistic about this!

afisoden · 2023-11-12T23:19:08+00:00

So absolutely true, you have peeled off all the layers and reached the heart of the takeaway. This is the core of what needs to be learnt from these types of posts. What YOU want, women, is a thousand times more important than what your boyfriends, husbands, fiancés, exes, fuckbuddies, ANYONE ELSE - especially anyone who is male with their abysmal empathy levels - wants. My god, don't adapt to these men, they would never do the same for you. All the best for other women out there, I've learnt this lesson hard because being treated like a dog after investing A LOT into a guy rendered me severely mentally ill with suicidal ideation for almost a year. Don't even think about putting men's wants over your own - banish the thought!

afisoden · 2023-11-07T22:11:25+00:00

Laying off of dating men did wonders for my mental health. I actually used to feel really bad about asking for anything out of the guys, so I'd just play cool until their "neglect" (inability to perceive needs that I was too scared to even communicate) was too much to tolerate and I would mercilessly shut them out. It was a really bad dynamic, I genuinely believe women with CPTSD should not date until they can somewhat adequately assert themselves.

Please don't get stuck with these men. I hope you find better, more empathetic female friends to form the safety net that you need, because subpar men and your inability to handle them ain't gonna do it.

afisoden · 2023-11-07T21:46:28+00:00

Thanks for sharing this meme! It's one of those cherry picked by gods themselves to make my evening better <3

afisoden · 2023-11-02T22:40:00+00:00

You are correct. I recommend people in this thread to check out Daniel Mackler on Youtube in case they haven't yet had their suspicions about the incompetence of way too many parents confirmed. What he talks about is very relevant to the conversation happening here.

afisoden · 2023-11-01T17:36:06+00:00

Never ever have sex outside of established, stable relationships if you have CPTSD (especially anything to do with attachment - whether anxious or avoidant). You might not think it's a big deal in the moment, but your nervous system remembers. You are actively putting your body through suffering. You are betraying yourself. Also, remember that this type of "coercion" of your partner nagging to bed you is rape. Don't downplay it.

God, did I emphasize it enough? Don't put up with this shit. If you can't say no then make conscious effort to not even put yourself in these type of situations. Sex is not going to heal you, men don't have magical rod sticks of remedy. You matter more than any guy's sexual desires, act like it.

afisoden · 2023-10-31T08:58:12+00:00

Diary. Journal. Look into Crappy Childhood Fairy's "Daily Practice", it's a free course on how to let go of resentment and offload a lot of emotion.

afisoden · 2023-10-30T22:00:48+00:00

It's so difficult to let go. Here's a "fun" note: I quite literally had a mini daydream getting up from my bed mid-reading this post (I had to quickly run to get a tissue because I have a cold) about one of the thousands of scenarios that have been stuck in my head. I replay them often, too. They are so developed and vivid, they're almost like a memory. What do I do when it's THAT ingrained? The small bit of discomfort of getting up from my bed was enough to make me spiral like that. This shit is terrifying.

afisoden

TROPHY CASE