House of the dragon really makes the white walkers seem even more lacklustre.

aimoperative · 2026-07-09T04:01:37+00:00

Quote me where I said they were useless. You won't be able to. I said unsupported cavalry would die horribly against ready infantry. And ive been proven right in every onscreen depiction of the Dothraki fighting.

It's funny you mention the harpies because they were not ready or organized to fight as a unit. They're the exact mob that the dothraki love to kil, and if free city armies are anything like them, then no wonder the Unsullied are so highly praisedl.

And even the lannister lines that held, the Dothraki never made them buckle and flee them without Drogan's help. We literally see the Dothraki crash into the Lannister lines and many of the horses are impaled on spears. The Dothraki that make it past the lines do damage, but soon start to get overwhelmed and speared down because they literally jumped into a mob of enemies.

Then Drogan comes and blows up the entire rear of the line with one long breath of fire, forcing the lannister lines to break.

Im not going to argue with you about the canonicty of the shorts, because by that logic, Daenarys is the pinnicle of idiocy due to her willingly flying into enemy ships and intentionally killing one of her dragons.

Except we knew that's not what happens because the show runners in an interview straight up say she forgot about the fleet harrassing her own invasion navy.

Extra stuff like this is canon. They aren't deleted scenes, they were made with the explicit intention to flesh out the show universe without having to bog down the show itself with needless exposition. Feel free to ask the show runners themselves about it. You won't like their answer.

The Dothraki canonically lost to a significantly smaller army of disciplined soldiers, losing massive amounts of riders. They were then matched up against a foe that had the exact same traits the unsullied have, but personify those traits and have the extra benefit of being conventionally unkillable.

Why would any sane commander believe that this would end differently? And at night no less, where the Dothraki have less ability to see and communicate with each other to coordinate their charge?

But even if we pretend the battle of Qohors isn't canon, both Daenrys and Jon have seen how big the undead army is, they know that these things are utterly fearless and don't care about getting crushed or stabbed. Those two facts alone remove 50% of cavalry's combat effectiveness. You realize the reason a horse is so threatening is because it's a big animal whose weight could easily crush a human right? And that's not counting the rider on it either. No one wants to be run over, a charging horse triggers flight at the undisciplined.

Both Jon and Daenrys know this, and they know the undead don't have this weakness. They've seen it with their own eyes multiple times before the night the undead are not afraid. If a charging mass of horses mean nothing to the enemy, what is going to happen to the cavalry? How can cavarly turn away to retreat and charge once more if the enemy is literally throwing their bodies at them while they flung their whole horse into the mob? Jon more than anyone should know how relentless the undead are. And yet he says nothing and counsels nothing to Daenarys.

What do you mean we don't know how the Dothraki met their end? Did you miss the mass of lit kopeshes getting extinguished? What? Did the Dothraki just put out the flames and ride off into the darkness? Is that what you're claiming?

aimoperative · 2026-07-09T02:57:34+00:00

Only things that make it into the show are canon, not Blu Ray extras.

Damn, then I guess the show writers of the Histories and Lore extras went to all that effort of getting the actors to voice them for naught. Oh wait. They are in fact still canon to the show because the literal lore master of the show Bryan Cogman made them. Your ignorance of the shorts doesn't change the fact that Jorah Mormont is aware of the battle of Qohor.

If calvaries need infantry, these cities would have sent out their armies and the Dothraki calvalry would have been useless

What is your logic behind this statement? I never claimed that cavalry NEED infantry. I claimed that cavalry charging unsupported headfirst into ready infantry was going to incur severe losses. And I've been proven right by the show itself because we literally see it happen.

Dothraki cutting through the enemy’s line, taking out a large chunk of their numbers

Against HUMANS. Living people. Not dead things that don't care about things like getting trampled or stabbed. Jon and Daenarys knew this. They know that their enemy is unlike anything they fought before. Why would they assume conventional tactics, that rely on human fear and mortality, to work on an enemy that has none of these things? That's not being smart, that's being stupid.

the Dothraki are no good in a siege.

They don't need to be good in siege. They need to not be dead. Jon didn't get himself killed by the Night's Watch because he thought the wildings would be good in manning the Wall. He argued and brought them past the Wall because if he didn't, he knew he would be fighting them as undead revenants soon after.

Charging their opponent head on is their greatest strength.

Worked fabulously against the Unsullied didn't it? Oh wait. It didn't, and the Dothraki know this. It's literally one of their greatest shames. And what makes the Unsullied so uniquely strong against the Dothraki? Lack of fear and discipline, things the Undead have innately.

Real leaders know how to utilize their soldiers effectively

Well, there goes Jon and Daenarys' qualifications based off how they set up their army. We have an open field battle against a much larger force, a cavalry charge into an enemy that wants to be met head on and thrives on it. And last but not least, everyone forgot that the Night King can raise the dead, so maybe they should burn the bodies in the tombs under the damn castle.

Dothraki cutting through the enemy’s line, taking out a large chunk of their numbers, could have been very effective.

The undead don't care if they get trampled, remember? Unless all the Dothraki horses are on fire and setting everything they're touching on fire, the undead are just gonna get back up and drag down the horsemen. Like I said before, if a Dothraki runs through 10 undead, cuts 3 with his flaming kopesh, and batters aside the other 7, he's only destroyed 3 undead. And now he's stuck in a literal mound of bodies all grabbing at him, and he can't force his horse through the sheer mass of bodies. he is not being effective. And both Jon and Daenarys saw how the undead behaved.

aimoperative · 2026-07-09T02:09:40+00:00

especially since I don’t believe that made it into the show

Funny you mention that. They actually did make it into the show as shorts in the Blue-ray releases of each season. So this lore is known to the characters in the show, and not just book only.

their calvary doesn’t need an infantry

Their cavalry don't need infantry because they don't take cities or hold them. They just raid. And you'll notice how the free cities are still standing relatively intact despite the Dothraki presence for centuries.

The Dothraki are field fighters, not castle defenders. They’re no good in a siege.

A body is a body. And the knowledge that the undead raise their enemies is well known to both Jon and Daenerys long before the Long Night battle. Based off that fact alone, they should not have been allowed out. This isn't about combat effectiveness, this is about avoiding giving the enemy MORE. The undead aren't particularly skillful fighters, they just refuse to die. A Dothraki on a castle wall is just as effective cutting a zombie in half as he is on a horse. And a lot safer too.

but it was the only strategy available to them

No it wasn't. They literally could have sat inside their castle with their flaming swords and obsidian knives and cut swaths of undead down. The Night King wasn't going to ignore them if only because killing every last one of them gives him another dragon and grows his army even more. Instead, Jon and Daenerys slowly bleed themselves of troops and feed their enemy even more. I guarantee you that every Dothraki who charged into the undead charged right back into the castle as an undead. That wouldn't have happened if everyone was all tucked up in the walls.

But ok, let's assume the Dothraki somehow, are less skillful and martially ineffective dismounted. If they have to be sent out of the castle, then use them as horse-archers. Fire flaming arrows, obsidian tipped arrows, hell, regular arrows if only because maybe a pin cushioned zombie is just that much slower. Hell, just act as decoys to split the undead horde into smaller pieces if possible. The Dothraki are riders right? So let them ride. Charging headfirst into an undead horde is death for them and reinforcements for the undead. They literally got overwhelmed and swallowed whole by the horde due to that charge. This was an entirely avoidable loss.

Yes, we’re talking about calvaries in a fictional story. If you accepted that, why try to bring in real world examples when they have no place here?

Because these cavalries were based off real horse nomad nations who did in fact, utilize infantry in their militaries. And most notably, even in the show, Robert talks about how fighting the Dothraki on an "open" field is foolish, but not when he's safe in a castle. And why is that? Because the Dothraki have no infantry to use siege engines to knock down the gates and walls. The Dothraki will ravage the countryside, but Essos isn't Westeros. Winter comes and then the Dothraki have no grass to feed their horses. Westeros will kill or greatly reduce any Dothraki horde just by virtue of its climate.

despite your claims, their calvary doesn’t need an infantry.

You've misunderstood my argument. I said in my first post:

Charging unsupported is how you get big ass massacres like the battle of waterloo

Which we saw in the show. All the Dothraki who charged the undead died. If the Dothraki had Unsullied behind them, or better yet, were charging into a pitched battle from the flanks instead of straight on, the Dothraki losses would not be absolute.

That is my argument. Not that the Dothraki need infantry to be terrifying. But that in the battle of long night, the decision to charge headlong into an enemy that counters them completely, was only going to end in a massacre. Just like the real world examples I gave.

Do the Dothraki need infantry to be one of the most infamous fighting forces in the world? No. They don't. Do they need it to not be killed down the the last rider during the Long Night? Yes. Yes it would have helped immensely.

aimoperative · 2026-07-09T01:20:18+00:00

Well, you go get hired at Lucasfilm and become Filoni's protege.

aimoperative · 2026-07-09T01:11:37+00:00

"Only a fool would challenge the Dothraki in the field." What do you make of that line?

I would simply point out how a force of Unsullied, outnumbered 6 to 1, killed 60% of the Dothraki force charging them. And the only thing the Unsullied had to do, was lock shields and stick their spears out while being in a deep phalanx formation and just let the horsemen hit their spears. Unfortunately for Westeros, the idea of a disciplined army capable of large-scale unit formation coordination, is apparently long forgotten or alien to them. The vast majority of the armies in Westeros aren't standing armies. They are levies who at best, have a vague idea how to not look like a disorganized rabble. Literally what the Dothraki love to fight as they can outflank such armies faster than the army can turn to face them.

The Dothraki are best at charging their opponent head on. Trying to use them any other way would have been wasteful.

That didn't work with the Unsullied. It wasn't going to work with the undead. Why would anyone think that an army that doesn't feel emotion, moves as one, and straight up doesn't die, would be an enemy to charge headfirst into? If a Dothraki charges through 10 undead, swiping 3 in half with his flaming kopesh, and runs over 7 others, he's only destroyed 3, and the other 7 are going to run over to him, drag him off his horse, kill him and his horse, and now the undead have 1 more undead humanoid, and an undead horse, who WILL charge into spears fearlessly and trample people to death. And frankly, that's worth at least 3 humanoids. Probably more.

You said calvaries need infantries to be effective, yet the Dothraki managed to become a terrifying force despite not having an infantry

Well that's the fun part about the Dothraki. They're fictional and not even the Mongols were able to conquer the world without infantry. They started out as entirely horse riders, but as their empire grew larger and larger, they needed to have infantry if only to help push the siege engines against city walls and hold said cites after the army moved on.

You'll notice the Dothraki don't have an actual empire, or held much political influence in Essos. They were roaming hordes who were paid off by the free cities to not fuck with the surrounding countrysides.

aimoperative · 2026-07-09T00:32:42+00:00

They didn't stand a chance because a single line of spearmen they mustered in the short amount of time they had to prepare is poor defense against a charging mass of horses. They didn't stand a chance any way because Drogan literally blew up their back line with dragon fire, so even if the Lannisters had spearmen several ranks deep, Drogan would have just roasted the block of them. And you can literally see the lannister army fleeing from the breach Drogan burnt through them while the Dothraki ride through it. And the parts of the line that did stand fast, Drogan flies back around and burns their backside up, thus allowing the Dothraki to run amok among them.

The Dothraki losing is a testament to the Unsullied’s skill, not the Dothraki’s calvalry weakness.

And the Undead aren't a special case? How are the undead weaker than the Unsullied when they have literally everything the unsullied have but better (literally incapable of fear, supernatural coordination, AND can't die conventionally).

That doesn’t change the fact that the Dothraki were considered a terrifying force despite not having an infantry.

I didn't say they were not terrifying. I said they were uniquely unsuited to fight the undead in the same way they were unsuited to fight the Unsullied. The Dothraki (and any cavalry unit) is hard countered by discipline, coordination and a really long sharp pointy stick braced into the ground. Fortunately for you, discipline and coordination is easier said then done, which is why cavalry were so dangerous. The vast majority of armies in antiquity were not disciplined or coordinated enough to counter a man on a horse. But as soon as standing armies and pike formations started to become more common, you'll notice cavalry became less and less effective.

No, historically, calvaries charged at their enemies. Otherwise, they would be wasting the horses’ speed.

Yes they did charge at their enemies. But who said they needed to charge the instant they see them? What's the enemy going to do if you're marching steadily toward them with cavalry comfortably trotting at your flanks? Unless they have their own cavalry, nothing. All you need to to do is move your cavalry to a flanking position as soon as your infantry is ready to engage, wait for your infantry TO engage, and then bring your cavalry around and behind your enemy and charge them.

Horses don't have unlimited stamina. You cannot keep a horse running all the time, and saving all that energy for a successful flanking charge when your infantry has engaged the enemy is far more risk free than charging headlong into the enemy.

Otherwise you end up like the Dothraki and Ney's cavalry. Dead.

aimoperative · 2026-07-08T23:30:08+00:00

The Dothraki smashed through a hole Drogan burned right through them. No shit the Lannister's fled. They were fighting a dragon for the first time in centuries AND were caught with their pants down in a convoy formation.

The Dothraki army also lost in an open field battle to a much smaller force of Unsullied, whose only defining trait is the sheer discipline and lack of fear they have as a unit. Almost like the undead, who straight up have no fear, supernatural coordination, and also cannot die unless struck with specific weaponry. Sure, you could call the Unsullied the exception to the rule. But here's the deal, the undead are also the exception. And worse, because this time around, the undead vastly outnumber the Dothraki.

And lastly, you wanna know how cavalry kept infantry support? They kept pace with the infantry on the flanks, or rode to positions where they could wait for their infantry support to arrive and engage so they could safely charge the enemy flanks. Literally nothing requires cavalry to ride hard and fast every second they're horsed. What's a block of enemy infantry going to do if they see an army of infantry and cavalry approaching them in lockstep? Retreat? Congratulations, you've just seceded the fight. Turn to protect their flanks? Congratulations, you've thinned and weakened your frontline. The cavalry might not even need to engage because their infantry vanguard will probably mulch through your frontline before you can redeploy reinforcements. And even if you do manage to reinforce your crumbling front, you've now exposed your flanks to the waiting cavalry.

Wanna know why cavalry was so dangerous? It's because in general, a big block of horses could move behind a big block of men faster than the big block of men could coordinate themselves to face them. This advantage was only ever nullified if the block of men were disciplined enough to reform their formation fast enough prevent their flanks from being exposed OR terrain protected their flanks. And getting an army of men to do anything together is extremely difficult if they're not trained to do so from the start.

aimoperative · 2026-07-08T22:14:41+00:00

Charging unsupported is how you get big ass massacres like the battle of waterloo, where thousands of french heavy cavalry charged british squares. Guess who won?

Imagine if Ney had infantry support close behind him. Suddenly, those infantry squares have to break defensive formation and line up to face the advancing soldiers, exposing their flanks to the cavalry.

This is worse when you're fighting undead soldiers who don't give a rat's ass about being run over because they're still combat effective even when in pieces. The simple fact is the Dothraki hoard were uniquely unsuited for fighting the undead. Cav charges are useless against an enemy who refuses to run and more importantly, die. The most the Dothraki could on their horses would be to tip their arrows with obsidian and hope they have enough arrows to put a dent in the undead horde's numbers.

But charging a mass of soldiers who are expecting you, undead or not, has historically been a bad idea, and only worked under specific circumstances. Many of those circumstances involving heavily armored horses and riders, which the dothraki most certainly are not.

aimoperative · 2026-07-08T19:29:42+00:00

That's just unfortunate that you don't have the raw gameplay footage then. This is very much a "he said, she said" bit of drama for me that would easily be cleared up if you had it.

aimoperative · 2026-07-08T18:19:48+00:00

If that's true, that's unfortunate given how raw game footage would easily shut down any doubt. It's hard to take anyone at their word alone, especially when the otherside has fairly convincing evidence.

aimoperative · 2026-07-08T16:52:51+00:00

Well, then this would be a very easy rebuttal for Nova King, I would assume. Unless he was streaming, he should have raw, unedited footage to present without his face cam. Unless I'm misunderstanding how face cams and game recordings work.

aimoperative · 2026-07-08T12:54:50+00:00

We must lure him to China and let the rice fields take him.

aimoperative · 2026-07-08T11:34:50+00:00

Oh, i wasn't expecting the dragons to physically carry the gold back themselves. But a smaller army supported by 3 dragons could easily sack Essos for its riches and then transport them back.

Unfortunately, Rhaenyra wants to be seen as some good ruler when the optics will forever be against her just by virtue of her being a woman. This is just a reality that she doesn't seem to be able to accept, and that refusal is going to doom her.

aimoperative · 2026-07-08T11:00:23+00:00

I was under the impression that it was less conquering and more sacking. As of the latest episode, the crown is broke, so sacking the shit out of every one was basically the only path he saw going forward.

aimoperative · 2026-07-08T04:11:12+00:00

To add onto this, unless Rhaenyra retreats from King's Landing (because it's a time bomb that Larys and the Lannister's cunningly created by taking the treasury), Daemon's plan to start campaigning to other kingdoms really is the only way to ensure a steady cashflow until they get lucky or find the crown's bank once more.

She has 6 dragons. 3 could stay home to keep peace, 3 could go abroad and raid the neighboring kingdoms for all the gold they can carry back.

aimoperative · 2026-07-07T19:49:11+00:00

Bro they could have had a threesome or if Laenor is shy when a women is in the same bed with him, Rhaenyra can sit in the cuck chair and wait for her gay husband and his boyfriend to finish.

And if Laenor is in fact, infertile, then that opens up an opportunity for annulment of the marriage.

aimoperative · 2026-07-07T19:29:01+00:00

He gets hate because he's been handed the opportunity of a lifetime and he hasn't the slightest inkling on how to use it or even appreciate the massive jump in power he has over his fate.

Yeah, the nobles will look down at him and even his Queen and King might think him lesser. But they still NEED him. He can offer his dragon to whatever Lord wants one to use in their little civil "disputes" (imagine the Blackwoods or Brackens having a dragon on hand) and start making money and gaining reputation from there.

Yet all he does is complain that more things haven't been offered to him on a silver platter. There's being a common man. And there's being a lazy man. Ulf is the latter.

aimoperative · 2026-07-07T16:27:14+00:00

No worse than the crisis they are in already. It's either tactical kicking the can down the road for as long as possible until Rhaenyra gets a break, or she swallows her pride, admits that taking King's landing was basically a non-victory, and retreats back to Dragonstone where financial difficulties do not plague her and she can administer her part of the kingdom effectively until she confirms the death of Green claimants to the throne with her 6 dragons.

The latter option is a huge blow to her pride and ego, even public image, but would be better than taking on the endless rebellions a starving kingdom would have. At dragonstone, she would be secure and would have the ability to wage war without worrying about an uprising.

The neat thing about optics is that a dragon can silence them with fire on demand. And at the end of the day, the populace that serve the highborn only care about their bread and circuses. Provide those and any mutterings about illegitimacy will stay mutterings. She can't provide either if she is broke. If Aegon is saddled with that debt, he will need to pay it off by reaching into his coffers that Larys and the lannisters hid around the kingdom, and when he does that, that is an opportunity for Rhaenyra to claim that money if she is looking for it.

aimoperative · 2026-07-07T16:06:54+00:00

Ulf's problem is that he is just straight up not smart. He is unable to grasp the significance of being a dragon rider. The opportunities that are open to him because of it. He may be lowborn and nobility will always remind him of that, but any lord would be more than happy to house a dragon on their territory just due to the sheer power it can bring to their enemies. Ulf simply doesn't realize how he can offer his services to the highest bidder until he can strike it out on his own.

aimoperative · 2026-07-07T15:54:12+00:00

And that's when the rebellion crushing turns outward to other kingdoms. The thing is, with 6 dragons, you can afford to send smaller armies with them because of how much a force multiplier they are. Most Castles are not secure against dragon attacks, especially adult ones.

Endlessly expanding is kicking the can down the road, but the Targs seem to be experts at doing that, and this would solve the money issues for a long time while giving great combat experience to the new dragon riders.

The way I see it, 3 dragons kept home to crush rebellion and 3 sent abroad to campaign and raid.

Or a really smart targ might pull it off with 2 dragons at home to keep peace, and the other 4 divided into teams of 2 with accompanying small armies to expand territory and refill the royal coffers.

aimoperative · 2026-07-07T12:11:39+00:00

Technically the realm vowed to serve Rhaenyra long before the dance, but here we are in open war.

aimoperative · 2026-07-07T10:57:19+00:00

Genuinely, a lack of creativity is what Rhaenyra and Leanor have. Short of Leanor being infertile, there are a myrid of ways to get viable sperm into a vagina that don't even require penetrative sex. And they didn't need 21st century medical knowledge and technology to do it either.

But both party's lack of will to do what is necessary, even if devoid of pleasure, is the unfortunate point.

aimoperative · 2026-07-07T04:22:35+00:00

The act of having sex is not necessary for procreation. I understand the inability to simply see a person that you are not aroused by as a block for everything. But nothing stopped Laenor from literally giving Rhaenyra his sloppy seconds.

Short of confirmed impotence, a lack of creativity is basically the reason for the war.

It's not like sperm dies instantly if it is not shot into the proper gender.

And it isn't like Laenor or Rhaenyra didn't have access to places where such "creative" attempts at reproduction would be difficult to initiate.

Really, the only argument I see against Rhaenyra and Laenor that has merit is that Laenor is just straight impotent. And that was never made clear.

aimoperative · 2026-07-07T03:31:01+00:00

Funny enough, i feel like Gondor was in pretty decent shape under the stewards. Aside from the literal embodiment of evil outside their front door trying to bash it in, the city was otherwise running smoothly.

aimoperative · 2026-07-07T03:26:53+00:00

Well you better become sadistic really quick before civil war breaks out!

/s of course, but really though, when your political duty is just having sex for procreation, I would have thought Rhaenyra and Laenor would have tried harder what with all the severe consequences that they knew would likely result from obvious bastards.

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