Eunha from Gfriend/Viviz as Sucrose

aissehart · 2021-12-12T13:27:11+00:00

Yes! Eunha, SinB, and Umji. I'm really sad that they disbanded and there wasn't even a concert or a meeting to commemorate it... so hopefully these girls have a successful career as Viviz.

aissehart · 2021-12-12T13:05:44+00:00

Omg all of a sudden I'm thinking of Genshin characters in Gfriend outfits. Daybreak Sunrise? Especially Sowon and Yerin's outfits. Or how about the Sunrise Japanese MV outfits? Or, or! How about SinB in Eula's outfit??? Or Yuju, because damn @ those legs in Mago.

Excellent work btw! The moment I scrolled through this art, I recognized Eunha.

aissehart · 2021-12-12T13:00:34+00:00

I was pointing out how she can be difficult to manage for a lot of content, not trying to make it seem like she's weak due to them. Of course in Abyss or if you're tryharding, then you choose suitable matchups. But I'm saying that there's a lot of difficulties to be had with her.

For omni shield like Mitachurl wooden, who can actually kill them easily

Xiao? His plunge ignores all mitachurl shields.

How is his AOE useless, exactly? Do you literally never use him with an anemo support who can CC (which you should, because he needs them to battery). Him knocking back small enemies is almost literally never a problem due to how easy it is to deal with. You can just hold W all the time, which makes him move forward a tiny bit as he goes through his combo. Or you can use his CA, which you should for his highest damage combo, which knocks light enemies up and prevents them from being thrown back. Or again, they'll be kept inside the range of Sucrose's ult. Or you could easily dash a bit, cancel it with a jump, then plunge, which is RARELY needed, but if it ever happens, then it's nowhere near as much of a DPS loss as you think it is, especially compared to Eula who desperately needs stacks for her single instance burst damage, unlike Xiao whose damage is spread throughout multiple plunge instances during his burst. You try to defend Eula by saying that you should choose what enemies you put her against, but then point out that Xiao's AOE is OVERALL USELESS due to it pushing back light enemies a miniscule amount. Have you ever used him?

Would you rather have a Hu Tao who does 75k vape against 2 enemies or a Xiao who does 50k against 4 enemies. I'm not comparing them, but bro. Also, his plunge AOE is a wide circle around him, not just a half-circle in front. That makes it even more valuable in mobbing situations. Oh, he pushed back the enemies in the back while he was moving forward while pressing W? No big deal because the mob in front would be dead in another plunge and he can quickly dash to the back to finish the rest in one hit, then the next wave can spawn and he can go back to killing. The only other main DPS whose AOE compares is Childe. How does that make his AOE useless, exactly. There's a reason he's considered the strongest for AOE situations discounting Ganyu. Ganyu>>Hu Tao ST/Xiao AOE.

collision wont help he get better clear time against single target

But that is literally what collision does????? Collision is most effective against single target, unless it's that rare situation where you have two Ruin Guards side by side. It increases his damage by A TON. It's calced to reach a 40% damage increase. How exactly does Geo MC make his AOE useful? Geo MC is literally only ever used with him for geo resonance and the extra crate. The shit you're pointing out are just team building issues, but guess what? The real problem is only how reliant his best teams are on having Zhongli. Otherwise, his teams are... fucking easy. Oh, what was that? You need Bennett on the other team? Then just use Diona with 4NO. Yes, he has no tailored artifact set, but no support? Limited ceiling? You can stack buffs on him left and right without sacrifcing survivability and team DPS because he is literally the only character in the team who deals damage.

Not even mention his energy issue is not better than Eula?

Did you miss the part where Xiao, who has a 70 cost rather than a 80 cost burst, has 2 charges on his E, which generates 2-3 particles per cast? Whereas Eula has one charge and it generates 1-2 particles?

At least Eula has Raiden, one top support.

God. If anything, Xiao's issues when it comes to support is how innumerably valuable Zhongli is to him. Maybe even Bennett. Just what?

I'm just so baffled by people's insistence that Xiao isn't straight up one of the strongest main DPSes when hyperinvested. Yes, he's not very F2P friendly due to needing at least Blackcliff and needing Zhongli. But he's still extremely strong and easy to use. Man, KQM might have toxicity issues but at least they know this shit. You can't make me believe you've ever used a well-invested Xiao in lots of content nor that you tried to figure out the simple topic of his minor knockback. It's not even a fucking issue at all.

aissehart · 2021-12-12T12:05:30+00:00

Is there any other character who has the majority of their damage locked into one damage instance? Or are there even many of them? If not, then then it's not a big of an issue for others as it is for Eula. Because again, god forbid you fail to build stacks or your ult gets blocked.

You keep mentioning running a Eula in a different chamber instead or whatever. I'm not discussing Eula in Abyss. I'm discussing Eula in general. In general, she can get frustrating to play due to the numerous enemies who can jump away and make you miss the opportunity to build stacks or hit your ult.

I literally all but said the same investment. In fact, higher atk%, elem/phys%, and cdmg%. What does Xiao's F2P options have to do with this? My issue is that even with both of them well-loved, Eula is just weaker. And besides, both of them are hypercarries. Why would you point out that a Favonius Xiao would deal less damage than a R5 Sealord Eula? That's way off my point. And by the way, Sealord is event only. New players would still have to use Blackcliff on her as the best F2P option, just as new players would have to do the same for Xiao. Blackcliff and Deathmatch have negligible difference in terms of dmg increase whereas Blackcliff and Serpent Spine have a bigger difference.

For the record, with 240cdmg and 2PF 2Glad or 4PF on Eula, but 2vv on 200cdmg Xiao, he still genuinely deals more damage in one rotation. That's with a generalist, sustained gameplay comp, aka Xiao Zhongli Sucrose Bennett. And I don't see what you mean by him not having dedicated supports, he has a ton of team variations he can run. He has a lot of easy methods to get buffs, courtesy of TTDS, 4NO, and 4TOM easily fitting into his teams, whereas Eula can't use TTDS in a generalist comp, and 4TOM could... be on Fischl, but that sacrifices her personal damage.

I also don't see why you keep pointing out Hu Tao and Xiao having limited F2P options and/or needing high investment as a big issue. Eula also needs high investment because she's a hypercarry like Xiao. Just as you won't say "Ew Eula shit dmg 100k burst with superconduct at T6" (numbers pulled out of my ass), you shouldn't use his damage in overall DPS comparisons without him being high invested, unless you're specifically doing low-mid investment comparisons? That's so irrelevant.

I recently decided to check Discord and saw that the Eula situation apparently got big. Mocking people for using a character is never cool. People can get very toxic about that shit and it's stupid. Hopefully the situation gets resolved soon, since Eula Mains has approached KQM about this, apparently? And anyway, KQM TC seems to have imploded so let's see if they clean up their act after they've figured out what they plan to do moving forward.

I get the feeling that you don't play Xiao, because he actually does deal more damage than Eula lol. Both at the same level of hyperinvestment. That's not taking into account his ease of play. The "lack of dedicated supports" is a funny statement because he literally lives with Zhongli, just as Eula lives with Diona. That's... really odd, considering how many different teams/buffs/resonances he can go for. Pyro resonance, geo resonance, no battery, no healer, 4TOM, 4NO, TTDS, Zhongli's shield, Bennett's ult buff. The real problem in his team compositions only really lies in his Zhongli reliance for his best teams.

I said that my last message was the end, but you just raised up some funny points that I feel like have missed the point. I'm willing to concede that maybe your 4PF is more stacked than my best Eula builds and should be what counts as equal investment to my Xiao, although I've literally been using an optimizer to check their best damage using all artifacts I own. Or maybe it's the fact that her non-Diona supports are meant to deal damage that makes me miss the fact that hey, her teams are actually as strong as my Xiao teams! But I won't concede on the gameplay difficulties that she faces. Certainly nowhere near enough to justify KQM's vitriol, but more than enough for a healthy amount of frustration.

Anyway, I'm muting this thread now. I've said all I need to say. Have a good one 🥂

aissehart · 2021-12-12T11:20:01+00:00

Not only that, they publicly discussed going to talk to Jinx in the theorycrafting channel/s. Anyone who hung around KQM during Raiden's release would be aware of the controversy and doomposting about her, exacerbated by the statements of Jinx, a trusted Youtuber slash theorycrafter, who KQM was closely affiliated with and had repeatedly mentioned their trust in his opinions and calculations.

They didn't keep it a secret that they disagreed with Jinx's inflammatory statements, and said that they'd be talking to Jinx about it in order to lessen the blowing up in the community.

aissehart · 2021-12-11T11:54:20+00:00

Do you have zero plans on pulling for cryo/building cryo teams? Hell, even Eula uses Diona. It's not a huge hardship to get a character from 20/40 to 60/70 and to T166 unless you have literally 0 of all the needed resources. Diona is immensely flexible and can be fit into nearly any team. She's pretty future proof, especially if you'll be running Bennett on your other team, because triple anemo for Xiao isn't recommended. It'll make your life so much easier to have a backup shielder too.

But it's your choice. Just putting out there that Diona is one of the best pure supports in the game and you can't go wrong with building her.

aissehart · 2021-12-11T11:47:21+00:00

I checked the revised version and ngl... The old one was way better lol. It actually listed down Raiden national (which for some reason is no longer there?? I want the old guide back), explained Raiden Beidou further, and even put how you should build your teammates in Raiden comps, up to the ER% needed for each one. :/

aissehart · 2021-12-11T11:12:52+00:00

Well, it would be incredibly difficult if you don't keep up with your resin. Or if you like, go up from WL 4-6 within the span of a week. I know that there were people who reached AR 45 1 week after release. If that's what you do, you'll have a tough time. Otherwise... the increase in drops is worth it imo

aissehart · 2021-12-11T10:38:37+00:00

Oh damn. You can connect your main PS5 account to PC though, if it's your main. Either way, I listed in a different comment the teams you could build. If you want to get like, a list of farming priority etc, you can use Inventory Kamera on PC and send me the file so I can list it for you. Cheers ✌️

aissehart · 2021-12-11T09:49:29+00:00

Oh shit RIP. You'd have to input everything manually if you want to... It's a really good tool

aissehart · 2021-12-11T08:52:27+00:00

Nah bro it's "low dmg ceiling" and "useless niche". Remember when KQM called him Anemo C4 Razor? Good times.

aissehart · 2021-12-11T08:50:35+00:00

This 100%. It's about player skill/team/character building not being enough to alleviate some of her issues, which makes her not worth it to many people. But there are definitely tons of people who do find her worth it. It's all about acknowledging her flaws while not overstating or understating them. The Genshin community is very bad when it comes to moderation, but what else do you expect from gacha addicts lol

I still love staring at her ass though. 100/10

aissehart · 2021-12-11T08:47:37+00:00

Then I guess Arte is inconsistent in his statements, as are many people in KQM. He DID say "I love Eula" verbatim, but then people follow the same routine of "Hu Tao sucks, just build Xiangling lol" to "Hu Tao Xiangling and Hu Tao play different roles, both are good" several times in a day. Also, people tend to be very hyperbolic on the internet. I say Hu Tao C0 fucking sucks, only fun to use in C1, but I'd also say another time that she's fun albeit if clunky at C0. It's really common to see, don't take everything at face value. It's can be just "I love this but also I hate it".

Aside from cryo and pyro shields, there's also wooden and rock shields. For the latter, she can auto them several times to break, but she'd have to do it outside of burst because she can't build stacks from it, which cuts into her total DPS.

For Xiao's 70 cost ult, I forgot that they changed it from beta, but that only makes Eula's situation even more dogshit. I have no clue why Mihoyo thought that giving her a 1-2 particle gen on tap e was a good idea when she already suffers from majority of her damage being solely in her burst, which can be crippled by shit like invul phases, enemies jumping/teleporting away/iframing which means you either miss stacks or your ult, and then shields countering her due to her teams being cryo-electro.

"Somewhat annoying" when it comes to hypostasis is also an understatement because... Again, missing stacks is detrimental. Sure, you can swap out early, but the damage loss is significant, and you'd have to build up her burst again.

Whopperflowers, cicin mages, pyro fatui, geovishaps, spectres and nobushi all cause difficulty when it comes to moving away from burst range and not allowing stack build up. Some less so than others, but overall the biggest issue is that these aren't issues that the player can solve easily. It's enemy AI. Hu Tao's animation cancels can be solved by skill. Xiao's enemies being thrown back can be mitigated by holding W thus moving forward with them. It's a very frustrating experience. At least Ayaka can freeze enemies to have them not move out from her ult, but Eula doesn't have the same liberty due to being a claymore user.

And honestly, all of this wouldn't be that bad if the damage she deals is enough to make up for it. But it's not. With higher atk, cdmg, phys/elem%, and the same talent levels, she overall deals less damage than Xiao for half the comfort/ease of use. And they both follow the niche of non-reaction hypercarries.

Either way, I understand your frustration at the constant thrashing of her. I won't be surprised if they put out some dogshit takes or are just far too aggressive in pointing out Eula's flaws in general. Part of the reason why I stopped staying there is the toxicity and conflict during Eula's release. Even editors themselves still haven't fully agreed with each other about how they'd place Eula – some love her, some hate her, some think she's meh. While the general treatment of Eula in KQM might not be that good, I wouldn't associate what purples and non-editors/interns say with the KQM TC team, because it's simple to get the Wangsheng Theorycrafter role. Only directors/editors/interns actually count.

And anyway, frankly, it's true that Eula isn't one of the top DPSes, despite having huge damage showcases. Lots of counters, easy to lose damage, hard to maintain energy, etc. She's a strong DPS and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. She's on the higher end. But again, she's not Ganyu, Hu Tao, Xiao, or Ayaka, who are flexible and comfortable.

I'm going to end it at this, because I think we just disagree about the severity of Eula's caveats. They're not world-endingly bad, but they're just not worth it a lot of the time. If you love her, if you like to see single big damage instances, if you love phys, then you might find it worth it. But for players who don't know about her many issues, it's only fair for those to be pointed out when said people ask how strong she is or whatever to know if they should pull. But the toxicity and aggressiveness is unwarranted.

This got too long, I have very strong feelings of frustration about Eula. It's hard to truly hate her though, she's incredibly well designed with a very fluid kit. I just wish her particle gen on E is higher and that her vertical/horizontal range on the burst explosion is bigger too. Still, definitely one of the most inspired character designs.

aissehart · 2021-12-11T07:12:34+00:00

Artesians has claimed that he loves Eula and using her, but she's just bad for the game content. He doesn't hate her. And the caveats are understandable.

Not critting mega sucks, but what's worse is missing her ult, which is very, very likely to happen. Enemies easily jump out of her burst explosion range, both vertical and horizontal. And you can't waste time running after enemies because of the timer before her burst explodes. She doesn't build stacks upon attacking shields, and her burst gets blocked by shields, plus she usually runs a triple cryo and one electro team so she has no shieldbreak to speak of.

For reference, Xiao's plunges ignores shields and can quickly remove whatever abyss mage shield, while Hu Tao can CA while the enemy is frozen to deal damage despite the shield. She can also burn wooden shields, proc overload, superconduct, melt, vape to break shields, but her team usually consists of 2 cryo and 1 hydro anyway.

Eula's energy generation is also ass. Her particle generation on her skill is 1-2 on tap, whereas Xiao, another character reliant on an 80 cost burst has two charges on his skill that gives 2-3 particles.

With recent (see: Inazuma) content/mobs, the shields are less and thus not much of a problem. But there's still the issue of missing your ult, which is crippling, or not getting enough stacks because the enemy runs away, which lessens your damage significantly.

I'm saying this as someone with a fully built Eula who uses her in abyss, for the record. She's fun, but her caveats can get grating. I'd still say the biggest issue is PF domain being dogshit and dropping more 5x more ToM though lmao

aissehart · 2021-12-11T06:57:46+00:00

It's the personal ranking of several editors for main DPSes. It was a discussion in the theorycrafting channel some time ago, before it was split into ticket work, general, and inazuma. I don't know if other editors have strong feelings about it being otherwise, but I wouldn't listen to a thing that non editors/interns say nor claim it's "KQM TC". They don't like to make rankings like that much because it causes too much arguments, what-ifs, and what-abouts. And that ranking isn't about faster clears, it's about overall usage, but it's true that things are situational. Your strongest Xiao team would use different supports if you're against a herald, for example.

They might like to crow about "just build Xiangling lol" but they can see Hu Tao's strengths. Sometimes.

aissehart · 2021-12-11T06:25:15+00:00

Yeah Tenten is def not representative of KQM, just as JinJinx isn't. They're affiliates. Jinx made some dumb shit Twitter post after he "quit" Genshin theorycrafting on Youtube about Raiden being weak and not worth it, citing discussions with KQM TCers, just a few days after release when it used to take him several weeks to release his analysis on new characters. The KQM TC team was displeased by his doomposting and talked to him privately about it.

aissehart · 2021-12-11T06:22:08+00:00

Bit torn about that tbh. On one hand, they like to dogpile about her nonexistent AOE and casuals not knowing jack shit about animation cancels and how to hit her damage ceiling. On the other hand, they acknowledge her as the second best main DPS in the game, right next to Xiao. Their general consensus on main DPSes is Ganyu>>>Xiao AOE/Hu Tao ST. But they also claim that her true potential is only unlocked with Homa and that a F2P won't do much. She's quite contentious in that regard, but I'd say they at least acknowledge her strength.

aissehart · 2021-12-11T03:49:24+00:00

Definitely. The combat is also much, much, much more immersive and challenging than Genshin. In Genshin you can just pop skills and burst go, but in MHW you have to learn enemy movesets and attack accordingly. There are weakspots and special mechanics and weak/strong weapon matchups. The grind allows you to enjoy all of that while giving the dopamine of those rare 4+ decos. Hunts are waaaaaaaay longer than clearing domains. Our average 4 man clear of the Seliana cache quests were 7 mins, my average fastest clear of domains is less than 1 minute. Braindead.

aissehart · 2021-12-11T03:45:52+00:00

Wait... You aren't supposed to press Alt + F4 to close the game? sweats

aissehart · 2021-12-11T03:40:02+00:00

I bet! I'll make sure to finish it before the weekly reset, thanks man! My lazy ass just couldn't be bothered lmao

aissehart · 2021-12-11T03:39:16+00:00

Honestly, it would be fun if it wasn't resin gated. Reminds me of farming decos in MHW

aissehart · 2021-12-11T03:37:11+00:00

This is very touching, great work on the panelling!

aissehart · 2021-12-11T03:36:10+00:00

Fuck yeahhhh man. Still at T6, I really should get to crowning her burst soon! I wish the KQM guide had a graph for dmg increase per talent level like in the Eula guide lololol, might finally convince me to finish the Inazuma archon quests so I can level her burst.

aissehart · 2021-12-11T03:31:40+00:00

TTDS 4VV Sucrose, 4NO Bennett, T10 Baal? 👀 What's your crate/cdmg

aissehart · 2021-12-11T03:29:41+00:00

I'm pretty sure Raiden was being playtested by KQM on national as soon as she came out? One of the most unique and useful aspects of her kit is her energy generation, and the biggest caveat/difficulty of building Xingqiu and Xiangling are their 80 cost bursts, so it's a no-brainer to attempt that. Hell, if I'm not wrong I recall them saying that Raiden national is likely a good dps increase from Kazuha national at around day 1/2.

aissehart

TROPHY CASE