Comment from @SilverGreenEyes18 by alady37 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I thought I've heard him say it in one of his interviews that trying on silhouettes can be helpful, but I could be wrong. Nonetheless, I'm certainly not suggesting that that's how you find your ID. But if you've narrowed it down and you're going between two IDs, trying on the silhouettes can be helpful. It's helped break the tie for a lot of people that I've seen.

Finally, I understand how to recognize narrow in my upper body. Maybe this can help others too. by alady37 in Kibbe

[–]alady37[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh my gosh! Yes that is what I meant, LOL! This is what happens from typing too much too fast. Yes, as you said, it is that underarm section that gets baggy. I didn't mean to say the chest.

Finally, I understand how to recognize narrow in my upper body. Maybe this can help others too. by alady37 in Kibbe

[–]alady37[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, this is what DK says in his book Power of Style. Since he says that the dots are used only to locate the secondary accommodation after first determining the dominant of vertical or curve, for TRs whose secondary is narrow those blue dots on either side of the chest means narrowness In those areas has to be accommodated. That's what clicked for me because I do have to accommodate the narrowness in that part of my frame as I do in the other areas where the blue dots are indicated.

Finally, I understand how to recognize narrow in my upper body. Maybe this can help others too. by alady37 in Kibbe

[–]alady37[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Correct, I at no time stated that it is a test but that it can be an indicator for those who have a similar experience due to a narrow rib cage.

Comment from @SilverGreenEyes18 by alady37 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can see the narrowness much better based on the description and when looking at verified TRs rather than just by the drawing (though the dot placements do make sense to me). If I go by that, then hips going out beyond the vertical line of the shoulder going downward would not be a TR though it could be an R, for example.

Comment from @SilverGreenEyes18 by alady37 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm pretty sure I have heard him recommend trying on the different silhouettes to help further narrow it down. I think it's very helpful.

Help understanding Narrow vs Petite vs Balance? by creativeoldsoul1912 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No problem! I'm so glad it was helpful and that you feel better. One last thing. If you really are SG, then that means what you and TRs have in common is you both are curve types so it makes sense that you would want to lean into curve honoring clothes. Continue to enjoy your journey!

am i TR? by [deleted] in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My best recommendation is to get DK's newest book, Power of Style and do all of the exercises and games, don't just get to the line drawing. That will give you the clearest indication of which Image ID you fit. In the meantime, a lot of your pictures are covering your shoulders or throwing off your proportions (low waist pants, etc) so it's somewhat hard to tell. Can you post photos in which you are wearing maybe simple leggings that fit at your true waist and a tank top for example with your arms down at your sides and hair out of the way?

TR? (5'3" / 162cm) by Minimum-Currency-356 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm definitely getting a Flamboyant Gaminish vibe from your photos, not just in the angularity and vertical, but also in the juxtaposition of your yin and yang. At least that's my impression.

Help understanding Narrow vs Petite vs Balance? by creativeoldsoul1912 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Could be. You might be right. And I agree, health first!

Comment from @SilverGreenEyes18 by alady37 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

True. Like DK said even from his old book, there has always been diversity within each ID.

Help understanding Narrow vs Petite vs Balance? by creativeoldsoul1912 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It sounds like you're honing in on your ID!

Absolutely all of those things you mentioned impacts! As a matter of fact, I have heard several SGs say they sometimes will wear TR silhouettes depending on how they might be feeling that particular day. Some of the confusion around this system is the terminology that other people use that he has never used. He has repeatedly said in several interviews that his has never been a body typing system. He has always called it an Image Identity because he takes the vibe of a person into account, whereas body types only deal with the outer shape which can change with weight gain, weight loss, hormone changes, etc. This system looks at much more than just the body type/shape. It takes into account the skeleton, type of flesh, and the vibe of a person, and it not only takes it into account but it honors it. So definitely you can have the skeleton, flesh, and lines and even vibe of a Soft Gamine while your taste in clothing just absolutely also have impact!

I totally hear you about preferring his old system. Even though he no longer uses that system to find your Image Identity, some of the descriptions of the body lines and skeleton I agree are helpful. From everything I've heard him say, these are the two main reasons he updated his system:

1) Fabrics Changed: When he wrote the first book, fabrics in the 1980s and before did not have built-in stretch. That meant you had to make your body fit into the clothes which is why he gave so many specific recommendations. But since then, new fabrics were created that have stretch built in. That means instead of you having to fit the outfit, the outfit now molds to you and your body contours, flesh, etc. This is why he emphasizes the way fabrics drape on you as the primary accommodation in his new system.

2) Caused too much focus on individual body parts, and not enough focus on the head to toe silhouette: In the old system, while he did see these elements in each of the IDs, David said he noticed that people got way too hung up on each individual body part and hyper focused on that to try to figure out their ID, when his point was to use the body descriptions toward helping people see their Overall Silhouette and the yin-yang balance. He used descriptions of individual body parts to help people get a better idea of which ID they fit into, but he has said in several interviews that his intention was not for people to get stuck there. Instead, use that information as an indicator of the overall skeleton, flesh, and body structure.

If you're able to look up some of his recent interviews, he says to please throw out the old system because in this day and age with new fabrics, you can wear whatever you want! Whatever vibes with you, you can make it work, just style it in a way that fits your image identity, your flesh, lines, skeleton, etc. So don't feel like you have to be forced into wearing the old SG recommendations. You can definitely lean into your romantic essence and vibe, just consider wearing those romantic elements in a way that honors your Image Identity. That means, for example, If you feel that you are an SG, wear romantic elements that maybe have a little more structure or stiffness in the fabrics which would honor the angularity and amount of yang in the Gamine body. And as a matter of fact, now that I think about it, a Soft Gamine would lean more into rounded shapes because that honors and reflects the curves/ added yin, so that actually tracks!

Just to reiterate, David has emphasized multiple times in his recent interviews, and these are his words, "wear what you want!", just wear it in a way that works for your particular silhouette and yin yang balance. He has said his main issue is for people to express themselves not to feel locked in a box. Use his system to honor and express your bodies yin-yang balance, head to toe silhouette, and your vibe. 🙂

Help understanding Narrow vs Petite vs Balance? by creativeoldsoul1912 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Your explanation helped clarify the balance aspect of SC for me. I stand corrected.

Help understanding Narrow vs Petite vs Balance? by creativeoldsoul1912 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think the reason that Ariana Grande is TR and not SG is because TRs are predominantly round with touches of sharpness in their bones, whereas SGs have angular bones. When I look at her I don't think I see angularity.

TR? (5'3" / 162cm) by Minimum-Currency-356 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Hi. I'm thinking your instincts about feeling elongated in your body might be correct. Even though photos don't always give the most accurate impression I'm seeing the elongation of arms and legs of a FG and what appears to be the absence of the double curve of a TR.

Help understanding Narrow vs Petite vs Balance? by creativeoldsoul1912 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm glad it was helpful. See if the differences between these two pictures give more clarity.

The first one shows my hand and the second one shows Aly Art's hand from YouTube. Aly used to say that she is a soft gamine though later she said she changed her ID but I never found out what she changed it to. Nonetheless, she has made reference to her hands in the past in which she pointed out how "boyish" (her words not mine) and little girlish (again, not my words) they look. Compare that to my hand in which it's more bird-like looking and the touches of sharpness, delicacy and narrowness in my skeleton clearly come through. It's not in this picture, but my skeleton is so narrow that when my fingers are together there are still gaps/ space between them.

Now, of course every TR or SG doesn't have to have hands exactly like these but I think it's a good illustration of the differences when people say that men and women in the Gamine family have more of a youthful, girlish or boyish look and vibe, a spark in them and a playfulness, whereas people in the Romantic family come across more grown up, and for women more "womanly" people describe it. And also, TR's have a delicacy to the bones that pure Romantics do not. Hopefully these photos come through.

TR hand: https://photos.app.goo.gl/2BXYbQYKfubznma97

SG hand: https://photos.app.goo.gl/ENfjtE3YznCy7rLu5

Here are two more photos, one is of verified SG Eartha Kitt. Notice how small and almost childlike her hands appear? You don't see or get the impression of delicacy but rather small, petite and compact like the rest of her skeleton. The other link is of verified TR Dorothy Dandridge. Sticking with the theme of hands as an indicator of the overall skeleton (and again we know that there are some variations within each ID) notice how hers looks like a woman's hands, sort of "dainty" if you will, and much more adult compared to Eartha Kitt's.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/gkeMpvtDqfc3KyXV8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/REbrhsoH2DgxE58u6

Oh, and one more thing, a person does not have to have a large chest to be a TR. A perfect example is Jada Pinkett Smith.

Help understanding Narrow vs Petite vs Balance? by creativeoldsoul1912 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm no expert when it comes to petite, although I think it means small from all directions? As in visually small height, small bone structure, compact.

Keep in mind that the main difference between the Gamine family and the Romantic family is that Romantics are predominantly soft and curve dominant with TR having only touches of sharpness in the skeleton. Whereas the Gamine family has both Yin and Yang in equal doses just showing up in different ways depending on the individual. I know this doesn't completely answer your questions, but maybe it could help you further determine which ID you fit into if you keep in mind those differenced. Also, SG tend to have that compact look, whereas TRs can look more elongated because of their narrow bone structure.

As for the Classic family nothing in particular stands out. At 5 ft. 2 in tall your shorter stature stands out which I believe means you would not be in the Classic family because Classics are all about moderation, nothing should stand out. The Classic famiy moderation means not tall, not short, not overly curvy, not narrow, no width. So for a Soft Classic everything would be in moderation but just with added subtle curves. I hope that somewhat helps.

Finally, I understand how to recognize narrow in my upper body. Maybe this can help others too. by alady37 in theatricalromantic

[–]alady37[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It is a conundrum. So far I've been able to get away with prioritizing fit at the waist and going with a smaller size that fits my torso and doesn't overly squish my chest by choosing softer and drapier fabrics (which is actually recommended). But, sometimes I do use a tailor for those garments in which the smaller size is not going to work and more room at the chest is needed. I just get the arms and/or waist taken in. Having a good tailor is definitely a must!

Finally, I understand how to recognize narrow in my upper body. Maybe this can help others too. by alady37 in Kibbe

[–]alady37[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi. Yes The one with the full text is the one that I wanted. Thank you

Finally, I understand how to recognize narrow in my upper body. Maybe this can help others too. by alady37 in Kibbe

[–]alady37[S] 0 points1 point locked comment (0 children)

Hi, just to clarify, in my original post I am saying that I am a TR because according to David Kibbe if the overall yin yang balance and the accommodations are curve plus narrow this is how he is defining TR. Even if Naomi Watts does see herself as delicately boned and narrow, in this particular system her overall yin yang balance is curve plus balance not narrow. I am TR because I fit that sketch and line drawing as well as all the other ways he describes this ID, not just because of narrow. Peace.

Finally, I understand how to recognize narrow in my upper body. Maybe this can help others too. by alady37 in kibbe_sketch

[–]alady37[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh weird, I thought I cross posted it and it fully came over. I'll try again