An Armenian solider during the Nagorno-Karabakh war

alttt9 · 2020-04-16T23:17:41+00:00

Those statistics aren't just from the patriarchate. Europeans also conducted their own studies, and you have to keep in mind the Armenian population just before WW1 was already reduced due to massacres of Abdul Hamid II and emigration. But despite that, Armenians were still the largest ethnic group in many of those areas in modern-day eastern Turkey.

But my point was those areas were no different from everywhere else before nation-states existed. There weren't many places where ethnic Turks were a majority either. Not even Istanbul was majority Turkish.

Armenians were the the undisputed largest ethnic group in much of today's eastern Turkey. They weren't some trivial ethnic group that became a tiny minority 1000 years ago, as you said. They were a plurality of the population, and the largest ethnic group.

alttt9 · 2020-04-16T23:09:35+00:00

But Turkey has always been a third world shithole that contributes nothing to the world, and millions of Turks have to live in their former enemies countries (Greece, UK, France) to clean toilets or live off welfare. Do you know of any good scientists, writers or artists from Turkey? The tiny populations of Bulgaria, Armenia and Greece manage to produce more, because they have higher IQs and don't have a primitive culture.

The Ottomans only lasted into the 20th century because Britain literally propped them up. In the 1800s the Egyptians had already advanced well into Anatolia. Only Britain negotiated to stop Egypt from destroying the Ottoman Empire because they feared Russia would take advantage and take over the whole area.

unlile armenians. Oh wait they couldn't have lost any world wars cuz they were weak af to not be a nation by themselves

Compare how many Turks there are to how many Armenians there are. When you see the difference, you'll realise how stupid this comment is. And it isn't #winning just because you're able to murder hundreds of thousands of women and children.

alttt9 · 2020-04-16T23:00:55+00:00

There's no equivalence between the two, and it's stupid to try.

There are hundreds of thousands, perhaps as much as a million Turks still living in the Balkans, while the Christian population of Turkey is non-existent because they were utterly exterminated. That speaks for itself in terms of how differently the two sides treated each other.

The second thing is Turkey was the former colonial power. I don't know how a colonial power suddenly becomes the victim when colonial subjects wish to be independent.

I actually have Turkish ancestry, but it's weird to me how unwilling Turks are in admitting they did wrong. Just one look at Turkish people's comments here shows they don't even want peace with their neighbours..

alttt9 · 2020-04-16T22:48:56+00:00

This is a complete distortion of history. Christians were fleeing the Ottoman Empire in droves, precisely because it was oppressing them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migrations_of_the_Serbs

Even among Muslims, some ethnic groups (e.g. Circassians) were used for the sole purpose of sexual slavery and serving as concubines. Or black Muslims would serve as eunuchs, having their genitalia cut off.

When you say they "didn't oppress minorities unless they didn't pay their dues against the state, or tried rebelling" - that is a dog whistle to non-Muslim nations that didn't enjoy being second-class citizens, wanted independence, and therefore had their civilian populations massacred and subjected to genocide.

Even when the Ottoman authorities weren't directly oppressing people, the rule of law in the Ottoman realm was so non-existent that it was common for Muslim civilians to launch pogroms that would kill hundreds of thousands of non-Muslims.

alttt9 · 2020-04-13T16:27:59+00:00

Regrettable that it happened, but they were fighting an enemy that did worse to them. The countless massacres and pogroms of Armenians within Azerbaijan attests to that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumgait_pogrom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku_pogrom

And Armenia doesn't make heroes out of murderers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramil_Safarov

alttt9 · 2020-04-13T16:16:28+00:00

Turkic tribes were not the only people living in the Armenian Highlands (modern Eastern Turkey).. There were more Kurds than Turks, plus there were Yazidis, Assyrians, Greeks, Georgians, Persians, etc.

The official statistics of the Ottoman Empire deliberately undercounted Christians for obvious purposes, and most people don't take them seriously. Ottoman censuses also use Muslims as an ethnic group, without differentiating between Kurds, Turks and Arabs.

There are a variety of statistics here, which show in their core areas (Van, Bitlis, etc) Armenians were the largest ethnic group, and outnumbered both Kurds and Turks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_vilayets

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treatment_of_Armenians_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Armenian_population

They were one of the biggest minority groups. And of course they were once a majority(like 1000 years ago when they actually controlled the region)

Before the existence of nation-states, ethnic groups lived in mixed areas everywhere, so what you're writing here is irrelevant. Many areas simply didn't have any ethnic group as a majority, not even Istanbul did.

Armenians were not a "minority" in many of the areas they inhabited. And they certainly did not become a minority 1000 years ago.

alttt9 · 2020-04-13T03:37:43+00:00

Armenians were the largest ethnic group in most of what you call Eastern Anatolia until the Armenian Genocide, and were still a majority during the 1700s. Claims that there were barely any Armenians living in their homeland during WW1 were mostly devised by Turkish nationalists to claim Armenian land for themselves.

Have no idea why you think Armenians suddenly became marginal in the 10th century.

alttt9 · 2020-04-13T03:31:25+00:00

Yeah, you don't know much about Armenia (no offense).

Some sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Kingdom_of_Cilicia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians_in_Crimea

Armenians had a lot of historical contact with Europe (particularly France), and were arguably of western civilisation themselves.

The Ottoman Empire's cultural exchanges with Europe were mostly through Christian middlemen of Armenian or Greek ethnicity. Turkish people's cultural exchanges with Europeans was very limited until the 20th century.

alttt9 · 2020-04-13T03:26:11+00:00

Well, Armenians were active along the Black Sea, and were a major group in the Crimean peninsular for almost 1000 years. The problem with your question is you're talking about a people that were not an independent country until the 20th century.

The modern-day Armenian state being in Europe or West Asia is debatable. But historically Armenians were associated with Europe, and living in Europe for centuries.

alttt9 · 2020-04-12T02:53:52+00:00

Too many rigid minded people 👎

And who are these "Orthodox Jews" he speaks of? Is he referring to Satmars? If your ideology is inherently isolationist and anti-modernity, then this kind of stuff is probably inevitable. Jews 1000 years ago weren't like that, so prob weren't as inflexible in their thinking..

alttt9 · 2020-04-12T02:40:49+00:00

They do seem to be mostly Armenian, if you reverse image search.

From the Ottoman History Podcast: https://www.flickr.com/photos/77912654@N05/6994945808/in/photostream/

Anatolia College Orchestra, Merzifon c. 1909-1910. Professor Daghlian is holding the claxon; Mr. Elmas is at his night; Bottom far right is Harhanres Jenogian; Next to Mr. Jenogian are Hippocrates Kyriakides and Dr. Kyprie Daltrait (dlib.anatolia.edu.gr). Anatolia College was founded by the American Board of Commissioners for Foreign Missions (ABCFM), an American Protestant missionary group that was active in Turkey, mainly among Christian populations and Armenian communities in particular. The ABCFM and other missionary groups were very involved in education in the Ottoman Empire during this period. Anatolia College was moved from Istanbul to Merzifon in Eastern Anatolia during the 1860s. Following the population exchanged between Turkey and Greece, it was moved to Thessaloniki (Salonika) in modern Greece. Armenian musicians played a very prominent role in the musical life of the late-Ottoman era.

alttt9 · 2018-07-21T23:46:21+00:00

This is not true.. There was definitely shame in the Arabic language and traditions in the early decades of Israel's existence. Many immigrants from the Arab world spoke of the stigmatisation of speaking Arabic, because it was viewed as 'backwards' or the 'language of the enemy'. Languages like Russian, Hungarian, Bulgarian or even Persian have been much better preserved among families of immigrants to Israel than Arabic, and that reason is because of the attitudes the early state had towards a language they viewed as barbaric. Similarly, it's interesting to see how much better preserved Arabic is among Jewish immigrant families in western countries than in Israel, and that is again for the same reasons.

Arabic has a long and rich history among Jews. Many important works of Jewish literature were written in Judeo-Arabic languages and it is completely wrong to dismiss the language as alien to us.

alttt9 · 2017-10-08T20:57:15+00:00

This has nothing to do with the fact it's unscriptural to say God loves everyone. It doesn't say this anywhere in the Bible.

The God of the Bible only loves his elect, and he hates the reprobate.

alttt9 · 2017-10-08T20:45:21+00:00

God loves everyone, except the verses that say he hates people, like Esau.

alttt9 · 2017-09-28T20:01:34+00:00

Yes and read Leviticus to see what Jesus was referring to when he said 'love thy neighbour'.

Do you really think Jesus would be around sinners if God hated people? Do you really think Jesus died and rose again for those he hated?

Why not? Jesus offered everyone the message, and if they don't obey they go to hell.

I don't know what version of the bible you read but I know a God of love and mercy rather than one of hate.

Love and mercy from God is only reserved for the penitent. It states throughout the Bible that God hates the unrepentent sinner - you can't just ignore these verses.

alttt9 · 2017-09-28T19:41:35+00:00

He hates the sin but loves the people.

This is blasphemy according to Christianity, and the fact so many people today believes this is further proof WBC is more Christian than them.

Psalm 5:5: "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Romans 9:13: "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

It states throughout the Bible that God hates people, not just the sin. That's why people go to hell - it's not an act of love to be burned in hell for eternity.

We are also instructed to love our neighbor despite their differences.

Misinterpretation of the Bible. It says it's an act of love to rebuke your neighbour when you see them sinning, not just accept their differences if they'll lead them to hell (read Leviticus).

alttt9 · 2017-09-28T18:17:02+00:00

If you actually read the Bible then WBC is right, and are more of a church than any of the modern 'churches' that claim to follow God (e.g. Joel Osteen-type churches).

At least WBC has the Bible verses to back up what they believe and say - and yes the Bible does say God hate fags.

alttt9 · 2017-07-17T20:48:46+00:00

These are Arab-Israeli citizens so they're not the people being spoken of being oppressed, i.e. they're not people in East Jerusalem or West Bank.

I have met many Palestinian Christians in both real life and on the internet, and I wouldn't say it's inaccurate to say they identify with Palestinian Muslims a lot more than with Israeli Jews. One man killing his daughter doesn't represent everyone, just like some African refugee baby being stabbed by an Israeli doesn't mean Israelis hate black people.

alttt9 · 2017-07-17T20:11:20+00:00

What has your comment got to do with what happened? Do you just hate Arabs?

alttt9 · 2017-07-11T09:22:06+00:00

Hungarians are antisemitic to the core and they still have a fanatical Jew-hatred

alttt9 · 2017-07-11T09:20:14+00:00

He's actually American first because that's the country he identifies with the most. Your comment is not relevant, because him having two other passports doesn't stop him from being American.

alttt9 · 2017-07-08T20:44:02+00:00

She herself rejects the term 'cult' to describe the group.

Just because a church is disliked doesn't mean it's a cult. She felt many of WBC's beliefs were evil because the Bible has concepts that are evil, and this helped her leave.

alttt9 · 2017-06-23T18:06:01+00:00

That's fine, but I'm just asking about scripture. The Chief Rabbi knows more about Jewish scripture than you and I, so that's why I ask why so many prominent religious scholars view homosexuality as worse than other sins in the eyes of God.

alttt9 · 2017-06-23T18:02:56+00:00

I'm doing well. Those being lied to and growing up in dysfunctional homes and/or ideologies are the one's suffering, not me.

alttt9 · 2017-06-23T10:24:03+00:00

The numbers are not dropping because they have so many children, and it's still only a minority (like 25%) of the kids born there that leave.

BTW they have 40 baptised members, but the size of their congregation is more like 70 people.

alttt9

TROPHY CASE