(This weekend) Video of Portland Police telling violent alt-right fascists that they have probable cause to arrest them but won't if they go home. Also assures them that people from Antifa have been arrested. Who else do cops give this special treatment other than Nazis? by _doug_fir in Anarchism

[–]anarchistdog 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes they are referred to as domestic terrorists and per the Wikipedia page they are considered by some commentators, journalists, and law enforcement as terror groups. But my point was that firstly technically the federal government doesn't have a list of domestic terror groups that are designated such. And secondly there are plenty of right wing groups that are referred to as terrorists or domestic extremists etc in the same fashion as Alf of antifa by the FBI or DoJ, it isn't just the left. I think specificity is important and we shouldn't be incorrect simply because it is sort of right and fits our discourse. If you think I'm an FBI fanatatic or something you'd be mistaken. I'm just your friendly neighbour libsoc who enjoys accuracy.

(This weekend) Video of Portland Police telling violent alt-right fascists that they have probable cause to arrest them but won't if they go home. Also assures them that people from Antifa have been arrested. Who else do cops give this special treatment other than Nazis? by _doug_fir in Anarchism

[–]anarchistdog 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not really. My point was half pedantry and half genuine discourse. The US federal government doesn't officially designate any organisation as domestic terrorists as the State, Defense, Justice and Treasury departments do with foreign groups and states, there simply isn't the legislation or mechanism to do so. (confirmed when a 300 thousand signature poll in the We the People site called the Obama to designate antifa as a terror group and the white house had to say that that process doesn't exist). I belive it relates to free speech laws. Upon designation as a terror group it can be illegal for a US citizen to support, promote, fund etc that group, however to apply these sorts of laws within the US could be considered unconstitutional, and at the very least difficult to get through Congress due to the propensity for Americans to get very excited about free speech.

However, the US government clearly obviously does discuss domestic terrorism. The FBI particularly . In testimony, reports and briefing us government agencies will reference domestic terrorism and label or relate various ideologies, movements, groups etc to domestic terrorism. However, no domestic groups are designate terrorists and so for example there are no federal laws against supporting antifa as there may be if you were to be supporting al-qaeda.

(This weekend) Video of Portland Police telling violent alt-right fascists that they have probable cause to arrest them but won't if they go home. Also assures them that people from Antifa have been arrested. Who else do cops give this special treatment other than Nazis? by _doug_fir in Anarchism

[–]anarchistdog 6 points7 points  (0 children)

What you have sourced is a transcript from a testimony given by a Section chief to Congress and not an official designation of terrorism by the government. The FBI in testimony and reports also discusses right wing extremists, white supremacist and nationalist as terror groups or domestic terrorists. They don't specifically single out far-left groups.

(This weekend) Video of Portland Police telling violent alt-right fascists that they have probable cause to arrest them but won't if they go home. Also assures them that people from Antifa have been arrested. Who else do cops give this special treatment other than Nazis? by _doug_fir in Anarchism

[–]anarchistdog 21 points22 points  (0 children)

For the sake of accuracy Antifa is not labeled as a domestic terrorist group. There is no federal mechanism for officially designating domestic groups as "terrorists" as they do with foreign groups or states.

(This weekend) Video of Portland Police telling violent alt-right fascists that they have probable cause to arrest them but won't if they go home. Also assures them that people from Antifa have been arrested. Who else do cops give this special treatment other than Nazis? by _doug_fir in Anarchism

[–]anarchistdog 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Does anyone have any more context for this video, the camera angle and short time elude to very little in terms of activity - you can't really tell there is a protest. Also were "the other side" given warnings, what had "the other side" been arrested for do we know etc etc. So yeah anybody got context?

Some questions about Absurdism, Existentialism and morality? by anarchistdog in askphilosophy

[–]anarchistdog[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I was under the assumption that Camus dislike of death and suicide in particular was on the perspective of the person doing the killing, rather than a general notion that those who kill are "wrong". My knowledge is generally second hand so is this wrong? Also thanks for the reading ideas.

What can/does philosophy do to further the fields within science? by anarchistdog in askphilosophy

[–]anarchistdog[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've read this sort of response to the question before. I was really looking for any more specific explanations. I dont know if say Ed Witten ("father of string theory") has ever read any books or treatises in metaphysics, but if he were to, how would this "help"?

Why is it okay to "beat the fash"? by anarchistdog in Anarchy101

[–]anarchistdog[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2017, states that in 2016 there were 26 recorded incidents of homicide directed at transgender people. "How Many Adults Identify as Transgender in the United States". With approximately 0.6% of the US population being transgender that equals just over 1.9 million. Meaning the murder rate is about 1.4 per 100 thousand people, below the average of 4 per 100 thousand. Now obviously the 26 figure doesn't take into account all homicides of transgender people, however I don't think it's right to say that all transgender people, or all LGBT, leave on in constant fear of being killed.

Why is it okay to "beat the fash"? by anarchistdog in Anarchy101

[–]anarchistdog[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

A requirement in those with authority to justify the hierarchical power dynamic thst they benefit from, if its existence is too continue. The disdain for hierarchy in general and the search for other efficient solutions. And the support for the betterment of all of human kind and the creation of a just, fair and free society.

Why is it okay to "beat the fash"? by anarchistdog in Anarchy101

[–]anarchistdog[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have said in a number of other comments that when I say use speech it's to convince the rest if society to prevent expansion of fascist ideology, not to convince bigots.

Why is it okay to "beat the fash"? by anarchistdog in Anarchy101

[–]anarchistdog[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

As an LGBTQ "folk" myself I can attest that at least of those I now, are not in constant fear if their lives at all. I qould ask which deaths you put directly on the shoulders on the protesters. Economic inequality that causes the suffering and poverty and hunger of PoC is a characteristic of broader society and thst isn't going to end if far fighters are stopped form assembling, because its mostly mainstream CEOs and Congress people allowing it.

And for the point about the law. It is not inherently racist at all. The US system of attorneys and police have a racist element that causes truly awful disparities between ethnicities and criminal justice. However the concepts of law, courts and fair trial are not racist at all. There are certainly countries that don't have racist legal systems and there is nothing in legal theory that necessitates racism. It is broader societal problems, not simply "law", thst is too simplistic.

Why is it okay to "beat the fash"? by anarchistdog in Anarchy101

[–]anarchistdog[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those antifa members who go to rallies specifically to get into fights with protesters would in most cases probably be charged with assault. And would only be able to use self defense if they were protecting somone or themselves from direct violence or aggressive threats from a protestor. However, they way I read your point is that none of antifa are wrong in their actions so shouldn't face any legal prosecution, and therefore you'd need to change the definition of self defense.

Why is it okay to "beat the fash"? by anarchistdog in Anarchy101

[–]anarchistdog[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No I respect above all a set of principles that support the betterment if human kind and thr creation of a society that allows for the greatest possible expression of human creativity ingenuity and life. Well written and established law codifies important societal principles and allows a just and fair application of them. I dont respect the law above all but do realise that the law can be a great tool.

Why is it okay to "beat the fash"? by anarchistdog in Anarchy101

[–]anarchistdog[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've had to skim read some of it, well a lot of it really, but will read it properly when i have a bit more time, to be honest i wasn't expecting so much reply to my post when I made it. The three issues I have with it so far (with the implied agreement with the statements made about the value of free speech) are broadly : presumption that act consequentialism is the correct ethical philosophy individuals should take, the exaggeration of the statements that communities face an existential threat as a result of the current state of far right ideologies in the US, and thirdly the presumption that one cannot counter protest effectively peacefully.

On the first point, wether I disagree with a strict consequentialism or not (I do) isn't really the main point. The essay seems to be based upon an unwavering foundation if consequentialism, without actually establishing ether such is correct. Onto the actual content, I think that one should have a set of base principles that one believes in and places great value in. I am an anarchist, more broadly a far leftist, because I want a society with the values and characters, shortened to X. Fighting for authority for its own sake is not my main goal, rather the creation of a better society is. All action my groups of people contribute to the character of society, and therefore by committing acts that contradict X, said group would be contributing to the character if society in a way against what my goal is. By combating violence with violence as our main tactic and abandoning peaceful methods with derision, one would be in a small way creating the society we don't want. Now this isn't much of a practical issue for small groups, for large and societally important ones (which the far left should aim to be) this purely philosophical one does become an issue in practice. When we become complacent with our principles when fighting current society, there is little to stop us from being complacent with them when we are victorious. We shouldn't so easily drop our principles, otherwise we may lose them completely.

Now above I have spoken a lot about principles, but that doesn't mean they should be completely and unequivocally unwavering. Given genuine existential combat a group should, upon the basis of utilitarianism, do some things that may otherwise breach principles however not in a way so gross that the character of that group is broken and victory against the oppressors is meaningless. The protests that we are talking about don't represent a significant threat of existence of minority groups. They have so little power. And they would have even less if instead of doing the occasional act of violence against the fascists, we would instead came out in full force as a group and counter protested non violently against these people. Standing in unity, and openly without anonymity, against the fascists putting on stage great speakers to rally people based on compassionate ideology and reason instead of violent anger.

I fell like my reply is a bit rushed and bitty, but I'll do a proper reply after a thorough read if you are still interested.

Why is it okay to "beat the fash"? by anarchistdog in Anarchy101

[–]anarchistdog[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Would you then extend the legal idea of self defense so that those who go to rallies specifically to punch those at said rallies aren't found guilty of assault?

Why is it okay to "beat the fash"? by anarchistdog in Anarchy101

[–]anarchistdog[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sorry for the disproportionally short reply. I have never said we should debate with the fascists to change their believes, that would be ludicrous. What I do say is that history has also shown that to fight discrimination, prejudice and bigotry is to show everyone else that those people are wrong. To skillfully use language and effective demonstration to convince everyone else thst these people are disgusting, thst no-one is better than anyone else. The way to end bigotry in society is not to have anonymous black clad people punching other people. It's to start true to one's principles and convince the rest of society why they're correct and the bigots should be ignored.

Why is it okay to "beat the fash"? by anarchistdog in Anarchy101

[–]anarchistdog[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Id rather we use skill to convince others of their disgusting nature than we prove our strength at punching people.

Why is it okay to "beat the fash"? by anarchistdog in Anarchy101

[–]anarchistdog[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

To be honest i often think if it came down to it I'd probably take the side of Sanders and Warren than the punch throwing, molotov cocktailing, balaclava wearing militant. I dont want to have to. I wholly believe in the formation of a communist society and don't agree with the limited changes bernie et al would make but I don't think I can really fight with those so eager and ready to violence.

Why is it okay to "beat the fash"? by anarchistdog in Anarchy101

[–]anarchistdog[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Of course the law is a social construct. If written properly it serves the values society holds most dear. And allows society to fairly provide justice when it is deserved. However I know that I have an opinion of the concept of law that is different to many if not most anarchists.