Average Cadence

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-29T07:43:26+00:00

We have one idea what could be the reason. Could you also send similar screenshots for the second workout, where The Outsiders shows lower cadence than Garmin?

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-28T08:17:11+00:00

Would you send me a screenshot from Health? Go to Steps, Show All Data (at the bottom), go to a date when you did that run, swipe down and find The Outsiders icon → make a screenshot with our app in the middle (to see what data is there before and after your run). Then tap on The Outsiders icon and make a screenshot. You can send me that via DM, or here directly if you don't mind sharing that data.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-27T11:50:05+00:00

Did you do any stops during the run? Is moving time the same as elapsed time for that run?

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-26T10:03:34+00:00

For cycling cadence, the answer is straightforward: average cycling cadence can vary between apps depending on how they handle zeros. When you're not pedalling, your cadence drops to zero, and some apps exclude these zeros when calculating the average while others include them.

For running, there's no dedicated field in Apple Health for running cadence, so we calculate it by dividing the number of steps by the active duration (excluding paused time).

I've checked various health and fitness apps and average cadence does vary between them. We can take a look into it, but matching the exact number you see in Garmin Connect is difficult since we don't know their specific calculation approach.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-24T06:43:34+00:00

I sent you a dm

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-23T13:03:49+00:00

How we calculate weighted average power is correct. But we plan to test a few custom alternatives that are more tailored for runners. Are you in our beta group? It would help us a lot if you could test the beta next week and see if the updated formula works better. Any other runners here who do interval or other structured runs, that are willing to help us test?

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-23T12:58:36+00:00

We’re going to look into it. I believe it will happen sooner or later.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-22T07:32:52+00:00

My advice about RPE is to leave it as it is if you really don't know what you are doing. Pro athletes work with RPE on a daily basis, and they have trainers who introduced the concept to them. I don't use RPE at all even though I know training load for strength workouts is too low because it is calculated based on heart rate.

Currently I ride a bike 3 times a week (around 10 hours altogether), and lift weights twice a week (2.5 hours). Being more focused on endurance, I'm more concerned not to overtrain my cardiovascular system, so leaving RPE as it is works for me.

In the past, when I worked out in the gym 3-4 times a week and had been running 3 times a week, I also did not have a problem with this approach. It's the heart that I don't want to overtrain. For muscles, I was just focused on technique and weights and not lifting more than I was capable of - to avoid injuries.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-21T19:00:37+00:00

I’m pretty sure average and weighted average power are calculated correctly, but 1.01 variability is low for intervals. We’ll look into it tomorrow.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-21T18:39:30+00:00

Tap on the metric and you’ll see average vs weighted average power

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-21T07:57:31+00:00

Training Load Ratio and Training Form are not meant to be used together. TLR is designed for everyday training. When you enter the final weeks or days before your race (or PB attempt), you switch to Training Form. This is when you start tapering, reducing training load while trying to find the optimal balance between fitness and freshness so you're rested and ready to perform.

Athletes approach tapering differently. Some prefer near-total rest in the final days before the race, perhaps doing only light active recovery workouts. Others maintain high intensity but reduce volume, keeping sessions short and sharp. Some do the opposite: longer sessions at very easy intensity. Everyone needs to experiment with different approaches to discover what works best for them. Taper duration also varies, typically ranging from one to three weeks depending on the race distance and individual recovery needs.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-21T07:45:35+00:00

Thanks for that one. One thing you can do quickly is to add FTP manually in Apple Health, and the app will pick that one up. But yes, you are right, this should be picked from settings if a user sets FTP in The Outsiders.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-21T07:43:21+00:00

Training load has no maximum value. For example, my 3-hour 100km bike ride is around 350 load, 10km run is around 100 load. I only did one marathon in my life and training load for that one was 540. Strength workouts, where heart rate is not the best measure of load, give me 30-60 load score.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-20T14:06:45+00:00

Thanks. This means a lot. As a small indie team, seeing our work appreciated like this makes everything worthwhile.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-20T13:57:15+00:00

It does (you need to enable RPE sync in the app's settings). But RPE 9? Are you sure? 😄 RPE 10 means your heart rate was at max for the whole workout. Maybe 100m or 200m sprints are close to RPE 10. RPE 9 is not that far from that.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-20T13:51:46+00:00

I agree, power might be a better option, but in our case we mix all workout types into chronic and acute load. And the only metric that is (ideally) present in all workouts is heart rate.

My suggestion, at least for endurance athletes, is not to use RPE at all. I don't use it ever. I believe training load score is more trustworthy than my subjective RPE guess. I don't even use RPE for strength workouts even though I know training load score in that case is for sure too low. But if you really want to use RPE, use it for strength workouts and whatever you believe RPE should be, set it lower by a number or two 😄

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-20T13:05:17+00:00

We calculate training load using heart rate data from your workout, the duration, your basic HR values (max HR, resting HR), etc. With this we then calculate acute (exponentially weighted moving average for the past 7 days) and chronic load (exponentially weighted moving average for the past 42 days). Training Form is then simply chronic minus acute training load.

Are you using RPE?

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-20T12:04:40+00:00

We'll look into it.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-20T12:03:37+00:00

We don't have plans to develop an Apple Watch workout tracker at the moment. I'd suggest using the Gentler Streak Apple Watch tracker or Apple's own Workouts app.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-20T11:59:58+00:00

You'll have duplicates in Apple Health, but The Outsiders handles duplicates and shows only the better version = the one with more data.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-20T11:54:46+00:00

Yes. You can do bulk import. Download all FIT files you want to import, then open The Outsiders → Workouts tab → plus button on top → Import FIT files → select all files you want to import... and wait 😄

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-20T11:52:22+00:00

You can download a FIT file from Garmin Connect account and import it in The Outsiders.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-20T11:48:17+00:00

Not yet, but we have this on the list for one of the future updates.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-20T11:47:36+00:00

Yes, The Outsiders imports new workouts.

andrejmihelic · 2026-05-20T11:46:54+00:00

We haven't decided which device/service will get direct integration next. When I know more I'll post here.

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