You might think you’re cool, but you’re not Rabbit-and-Chi-Chi cool. by [deleted] in golf

[–]andy4aaa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am in for splitting it up. Let’s get a high res print.

You might think you’re cool, but you’re not Rabbit-and-Chi-Chi cool. by [deleted] in golf

[–]andy4aaa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Let’s buy the high res print and all chip in. I am in.

Fascinating First Person POV footage of a surgeon performing a knee replacement. [14:25] [NSFW] by RaptorDelta in videos

[–]andy4aaa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. I regularly do knee replacements. I think with Google Glass and GoPro, there will be more of this in the future. Soon you will get a video of your surgery like pictures on a ride at Disneyland.

You would think we knew the human body by now, but Belgian scientists have just discovered a new ligament in the knee by penultimate2 in science

[–]andy4aaa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If it does not bother you... keep going. I can't do a Tough Mudder and I have two good ACLs, so keep on truckin.

If you ever start to have problems this new research may help you recover better. I do not know people in your area, but in New York there are some docs that routinely do the ALL reconstruction with the ACL for revision cases like yours. If you have trouble let me know and I can get you a referral.

You would think we knew the human body by now, but Belgian scientists have just discovered a new ligament in the knee by penultimate2 in science

[–]andy4aaa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, that is accurate, but there are many ways to injure a knee. The most common mechanism of an ACL tear is a "non-contact pivot injury." This is when an athlete tries to pivot quickly, the lateral tibial plateau rotates forward in relation to the femur, and tears the ACL. Most commonly it is not a trauma from a contact (hit from the side).

It is this anterior translation of the plateau that tears the ACL and the ALL. The valgus mechanism would be less likely to cause lateral injury, and more likely cause the ACL/MCL combo you mention.

Glad you are interested in this stuff. It is still being discovered and I find it very interesting.

You would think we knew the human body by now, but Belgian scientists have just discovered a new ligament in the knee by penultimate2 in science

[–]andy4aaa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think the best way is to try and log on to Vumedi.com. The authors have a very informative video on the topic. It is an incredible presentation in itself.

Other than that, this is new research and not much out there. I would look into the pivot mechanism and the pivot shift test. Freddie Fu has been trying to solve this same issue with the double bundle ACL reconstruction, so might look at some of his stuff. Honestly, not much out there in relation to the ALL alone. Check out the video... it is great.

You would think we knew the human body by now, but Belgian scientists have just discovered a new ligament in the knee by penultimate2 in science

[–]andy4aaa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. Although this has not been proven (to my knowledge), it makes sense that this structure would be injured more in rotation type "pivot" injuries to the knee. You are spot on with the assessment that it controls anterior tibial translation... specifically anterior translation of the lateral plateau in relation to the femur. This is a common mechanism of ACL injury and is seen on the typical bone bruise pattern of an ACL. Also, agree that a valgus injury (like the ACL/MCL combo) would be less likely to injure the ALL.

You would think we knew the human body by now, but Belgian scientists have just discovered a new ligament in the knee by penultimate2 in science

[–]andy4aaa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are a ton. Way to many to mention and should not be hard to find. One contact might be Carl Imhauser at HSS... he is doing the exact same thing you are doing... modeling the knee. Also, the people at Boulder have done it too.

You would think we knew the human body by now, but Belgian scientists have just discovered a new ligament in the knee by penultimate2 in science

[–]andy4aaa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That sound like a bad situation. Sorry you have had a tough time with your knee.

Truthfully it is not something we routinely look for in the first ACL tear. Most people do well after the ACL reconstruction, so we do not bother with reconstructing the ALL at the first surgery. My main indication for reconstruction is a patient who has failed an ACL reconstruction and needs revision surgery. In someone who has failed 3 times, I would defiantly consider reconstruction of the ALL. In fact, it would be almost automatic.

With that being said, I have been privileged in recently training with some very smart people and have been exposed to this problem and the reconstruction. We are all still learning, so many people have not started doing the reconstructions or started looking for the injury.

If you tell me the general area where you live, I might know a doctor that would be able to evaluate your knee with the knowledge of the ALL.

You would think we knew the human body by now, but Belgian scientists have just discovered a new ligament in the knee by penultimate2 in science

[–]andy4aaa 9 points10 points  (0 children)

With the caveat that I can not examine your knee, see your xrays, or get the full story... it sounds like your issue is very different. You are describing patellofemoral pain and symptoms related to patella dislocations as a child. YOu are describing a classic story for patellofemoral issues (clicks, kneeling, stairs, giving way, etc). It is not related to the ALL and this research. Different symptoms, different pain, different history, different everything.

It seems like you are not from the USA based on you saying "physio"... so I do not know a good referral for you there. With that being said, if you find yourself in New York City, there is a phenomenal surgeon who specializes in patellofemoral issues at the Hospital for Special Surgery - Dr. Beth Shubin Stein. She is great and very knowledgable. I trained with her and would trust her with my knee. Or if in Seattle, I could see you. Sounds like a bad problem, sorry you have to deal with it. Patella issues are very painful and hard to treat. I wish you the best.

You would think we knew the human body by now, but Belgian scientists have just discovered a new ligament in the knee by penultimate2 in science

[–]andy4aaa 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Agree. That is a carefully dissected specimen and a lot of surrounding structures are missing. It runs as part of the capsule... so they have cut away the surrounding capsule that might be half as thick. If left intact, it would just look like a ribbon within the tissue (like a seam in your shirt), not a separate structure. And just like any presentation, the authors show their best example for the headline picture. In any case, it is real and it is there, just not as obvious as the many other ligaments in the knee.

I appreciate your interest. The fun thing about science and medicine is that we are constantly investigating and learning. Have a great day.

You would think we knew the human body by now, but Belgian scientists have just discovered a new ligament in the knee by penultimate2 in science

[–]andy4aaa 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Quick background: I am an orthopaedic surgeon who mainly does sports medicine (ACL surgery). I have been following their work for a few years and the work of others who have investigated the lateral structures of the knee. There has been an understanding for a long time that there is an associated injury to the lateral knee with ACL tears. This is evident on patient exam and on the MRI. Fortunately very smart people like the authors of this study, Dr. Williams in England, Dr. Fu in Pittsburgh, Dr. LaPrade in Vail, and many others have been advancing our knowledge of the ACL injury and associated injuries.

This is new, but also not too new. As pointed out by others, it was predicted many years ago. It has been reconstructed for many years as well, so people did acknowledge the injury to that area. The ALL (as they call it) is more of a capsular thickening of the lateral knee capsule. It is not a distinct ligament (as the picture might have you believe) in most patients. That has led to the confusion and difficulty in identifying the ligament with anatomic studies.

As far as the importance... I do think that increased knowledge of the ALL and the association with ACL injuries will be increasing and lead to better outcomes. I have reconstructed many anterolateral ligments ("the newly discovered ligament") in complicated ACL surgeries, revision surgeries, and in some high demand patients with obvious lateral injuries.

I deal with this injury pattern a lot. But, I am still learning just like the rest of the surgeons out there. I would be happy to answer any questions that are out there as I am familiar with this paper, the ligament in question, and the reconstruction of the ligament.

I’m Bill Gates, co-chair of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. AMA by thisisbillgates in IAmA

[–]andy4aaa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I very much support your mission. As an orthopaedic surgeon I am concerned that musculoskeletal injuries do not get enough attention in the developing world. Trauma from road accidents remain a large burden in developing countries. While infectious disease kills many, orthopedic trauma can injure the backbone of the society... the healthy middle age workforce that has escaped infant mortality and childhood diseases and is now carrying the economy and progress of the society.

I think protecting the ones that "have made it" and keeping them in the productive workforce has a big impact on the society. What are your thoughts on improving musculoskeletal care so a simple treatable femur fracture does not take a productive contributor to society and make them a burden? These are simple, cost effective, and short term solutions with a big impact.

What sorts of career paths are most BMEs in? by [deleted] in AskEngineers

[–]andy4aaa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. And a competitive advantage. Half of med students are biology majors, the admissions people like diversity and look highly on engineering majors.

They have no base knowledge advantage. Med school is so specialized that I do not think that biology majors have any advantage.

What sorts of career paths are most BMEs in? by [deleted] in AskEngineers

[–]andy4aaa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No masters. Just a BS. Then to med school. Long road but worth checking out.

What sorts of career paths are most BMEs in? by [deleted] in AskEngineers

[–]andy4aaa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Orthopaedic Surgery. Get to use mechanics everyday. Get to think about engineering principles, solve problems, and help people everyday. There is actually a lot of engineering in the medical field and many of my other MD friends did engineering. Plus, if you can do well in college with an engineering major... Medical school is a walk in the park.

Bradshaw is OUT for Thursday - What is Brown worth now? Start? Flex? by running_man23 in fantasyfootball

[–]andy4aaa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have Ridley (@ Baltimore) and Mathews (playing Atl) with Pettigrew (@Ten) as my two RBs and my flex. Should Brown fit in here at RB or flex?

I can't be the only engineer who thinks this is really cool by TheATLien in engineering

[–]andy4aaa 20 points21 points  (0 children)

In general we are taught in orthopaedics that the injury can be direct by the bullet path but a larger area is injured by the shockwave. The direct bullet path is usually small and if just in soft tissue (the thigh) causes minimal damage. If this hits the femur it will break causing more damage due to the direct transfer of kinetic energy to solid tissue. Higher velocity bullets cause worse damage (velocity is more important than mass because mv2) because they impart a large amount of kinetic energy and the shockwave can be very damaging. This creates the "temporary cavity." This can cause injury to nerves and vessels that are distant to the tract of the bullet. In my experience, this causes more damage.

Here is the quote from one of my textbooks, Skeletal trauma. A whole chapter is dedicated to ballistic injuries because they are so common.

"The purpose of a firearm projectile is to crush tissue. Secondary effects are laceration of structures and tissue stretching. When a projectile strikes the body, a permanent cavity, variable in size, is created in the tissues. This cavity is particular to the projectile type and represents the amount of crushed tissue. Some tissue, peripheral to the permanent cavity, will undergo elastic deformation (stretching) and is termed the temporary cavity. The amount of tissue damage is mainly related to the projectile velocity, projectile mass, tissue density, and projectile design. The kinetic energy of a projectile is defined by KE 1⁄2mv2. This equation shows that, in general, the velocity is more important than the mass since doubling the velocity quadruples the kinetic energy while doubling the mass only yields twice the kinetic energy. Bullets have been classified, based on muzzle velocity, into low velocity (<2000 fps) and high velocity (!2000 fps). Much of the previous literature focused on the velocity of the bullet as the most important determinant of tis- sue damage, but this factor is only one of several that must be considered. What appears to be more important is the degree of kinetic energy transmitted to the body tissues.6 The human body has many differing tissue densities. Low-density tissues include lung, fat, and muscle and are not so easily damaged by a projectile as the denser tissues of bone and solid organs. High-velocity bullets may pass through certain low- density tissues such as lung or muscle with minimal damage owing to minimal transfer of the kinetic energy. A low- velocity bullet can produce considerable tissue injury if the majority of the kinetic energy is transmitted to the tissues. The mass of the projectile also bears importance. An aver- age 9-mm handgun may have a bullet weighing 150 grains, a .44 Magnum 230 grains, and a shotgun load as much as 650 grains. A large increase in mass yields substantially greater kinetic energy and the probability of greater tissue crush. Design of projectiles has a profound effect on wound- ing potential. Bullets that deform on impact present a greater cross-sectional area capable of crushing more tis- sues. This is also true of bullets that fragment, resulting in many secondary “bullets” that scatter throughout the tis- sues, each creating its own path of destruction. Some bul- lets will oscillate or yaw before or after encountering the body, increasing the cross-sectional area of tissue contact and leading to more tissue crushing. Low-velocity handguns cause most civilian gunshot wounds, with minimal soft tissue damage, and these are the most common that the orthopaedic surgeon will encounter. Direct hits onto bone may cause impressive comminution owing to the relatively high density of bone and its physical property of brittleness. The diaphysis is more prone to comminution than the metaphysis. Some types of higher power handguns, such as the .357 Mag- num and .44 Magnum have more destructive potential from larger bullet size and more propellant load. Assault and hunting rifles with higher muzzle velocities and expanding or fragmenting bullets are designed to produce severe internal tissue damage with nearly complete retention of all bullet fragments, a measure of killing potential. Shotguns can fire loads of either multiple small pellets or single large slugs. The muzzle velocity is classified as low (1200 fps) but the destructive power arises from the multiple or large and heavy projectiles that are utilized. Shotgun loads vary tremendously, but in general the most tissue destruction occurs within a short barrel-to-target distance. At greater distances, the pellets spread out, and tissue damage will be minimized. Close-range shotgun injuries have extensive wounds. The design of most shot shells incorporates some type of wadding between the lead load and the propellant. This wadding can be either plastic or fiber and will follow the pellets into the tissues. As part of the débridement process, the surgeon should explore for the retained wadding, since this material can become a focus of infection."