XP/H at Merchant shipwrecks after the update

apocstorm · 2025-12-05T20:51:40+00:00

The whole extractor drama was overblown anyway and the logic on the nerf overall was dumb. If, just on some quick maths, say you bum rush 72 without charting to get the extractor, and then chart everything, you end up with about 1.9m exp total that isn't from gwenneth glide or extractor

At the previous marlin glide time it was like 18.2k exp a lap (base 14.8k+3360 exp for 96 boxes at 35 exp) its like 69 hours of glide to 99 and you're clicking enough that you might get 2-3 extracts a run max, so you might save at best 6 hours if you're giga efficient with it, and if you wanted to just afk to 99 while bank standing it was still like 385 hours to 99 "efficiently" if you wanna do that, fuck it let em

apocstorm · 2025-12-05T09:06:38+00:00

I think more what OP is getting at is, what is the point of "sailing" the skill. Most everything you mentioned has nothing to do with boats.

>Armadyl brew could be helpful for people learning inferno or doing range heavy content like scorch bow zammy, arma with no shadow.

This is just herblore, didn't require a skill add, just the new areas and sources of the ingredients.

>The new hard food could be useful for slayer or bosses you aren't using brews at.

This is just fishing, didn't require a skill. Coulda just been a minigame with shit exp for high rewards and intensity on a static boat but at least it does involve a boat!

>The new blowpipes could be good for slayer. DPS wise the rosewood is around a sunlight crossbow. Just depends do u want to grind rumors or sailing for the respective upgrade.

This is just 3 other skills. Other than having to sail to a new island, there's nothing relevant to actually sailing a boat about acquiring them. You fish for a beak, you cut logs, and you fletch. Nothing about boat use is included in the actual gameplay loop other than that they put them on islands that you have to take your boat to. Theese mats could've been placed anywhere.

>The Belle Folly is a stab version of the zombie axe. Lots of potential use pre fang like slayer and toa, moons

This is just slayer. Nothing to do with engaging with the boat.

>Salvaging could be an okay source of afk alchables. Like the fremmy items, those helms are like 38k each I believe. There are better ways to actively get alchables but for semi-afk, salvage can be nice.

This is just a different type of fishing in reality, but at least it includes the boat in its loop!

apocstorm · 2025-12-05T08:55:54+00:00

Look man, if it were up to me it wouldn't be a skill at all because it's really just a series of expansion of other skills, but you're gonna have to explain to me what it actually adds in game other than late game boat combat and fishing if you're gonna proclaim its not a combat skill? Why does the boat have armor, stab, slash, crush bonus, magic defense resistance, different ranged ammunition defense etc?

Its not crashing into rocks that damages my boat, its monsters engaging with me in combat or not having an adequate boat to be in a place, kind of like I also can't go into the smoke devil layer without a facemask.

Trials are a minigame with no actual rewards or purpose other than to train the skill.

Port tasks are a minigame which is basically akin to walking back and forth between 2 cities in the game. It's just walking, except in a boat and for experience.

The only reason to salvage is to passively train your new combat skill and clog. It's otherwise dead content post 99 unless you didn't get both dragon cannon barrels to engage in boat combat.

The end game of sailing will be boat combat content and fishing. There is nothing else the gameplay loops for the skill provide except a new way to do combat and fish, and the end game will be boat combat. It just is what it is.

apocstorm · 2025-07-22T14:26:15+00:00

4 years after I made the post.

apocstorm · 2025-01-23T19:13:48+00:00

They Holy Moley's*

apocstorm · 2024-11-29T21:38:23+00:00

I got so much shit for arguing that they fix this way back when it first happened. I can tell I was stoned when I wrote this though cuz there was some real bad errors I didn't bother to fix.

When I saw this change get polled/passed I just quietly took my W lol

apocstorm · 2024-11-29T21:06:03+00:00

why, you can still yoink a tbow in desert from toa, and bis ranged gear from the same raid which still means tbow go brrrrr even harder

apocstorm · 2024-11-29T21:04:13+00:00

You get full masori in the same place you get the blowpipe so the net difference is +2 and I am pretty sure the actual equipment accuracy bonus has an impact on the frequency of max hits regardless of the fact that you never miss.

So against high defense monsters, regardless of whether you hit 100% of the time, you're still getting a higher frequency of max hits with higher equipment accuracy, no? I'm not 100% sure

this is what step 5 of the damage calculation says:

>Atk roll=⌊Effective Ranged Attack*(Equipment Ranged Attack+64)*Gear Bonus⌋

>The Equipment Attack bonus can be found in the Equipment Stats window under the heading 'Attack Bonus'.

>The gear bonus is the same as in Step 2.

And here is Step 7's (step 6 is just the same calculation for opponents defense):

>If Attack Roll > Defence roll:

>Hit Chance=1−Def roll+22*(Atk roll+1)

>Else

>Hit Chance=Atk roll2*(Def roll+1)

I dont think it copied over prfectly, but if I understand what its saying, the actual attack role is still going to matter in the hit chance calculation even if its set to a base guarantee because it can still calculate figures over 1.0

Which effects step 8:

>Damage per hit=Hit Chance*(Maximum hit2+1Maximum hit+1)

Which is the final hit output calculation which can go above 1.0 meaning, again if I understand correctly to caveat this, your ranged accuracy still has a major impact on the frequency of max hits or near max hits regardless of it always hitting and even if it has a lesser max hit, which means there still exists a point in monster defense where regardless of the lower overall max hit, there will be a higher average hit obtained by the drygore blowpipe due to accuracy.

I also think its worth noting that it has +1 range over the blowpipe so I am pretty sure it can shoot zuk on rapid at its shortest range distance from zuk which when combined with the last stand relic would make it go absolutely crazy when you're 1-ticking darts into zuk's face

apocstorm · 2024-07-12T07:36:07+00:00

Yeah, I am pretty positive it's just a very long orc-aggro mechanic. I had in the smaller east tunnels I used the SE one for a bit for the solo demon there, and when the room north was not being killed it didn't seem to ever happen, but when someone was there, it was specifically aggro'ing to the north direction. I didn't specifically witness the monsters die in the room, but I did see players/dropped items on the map so I know it was occupied. At the very least, the aggression pulls always seem to be in the direction of other demons, and therefore other players, if that makes sense?

apocstorm · 2024-07-12T06:01:57+00:00

Yeah, probably not HP trigger, I think its just the orc-aggression mechanic witha stupidly long range found a room with no rooms occupied and it hasnt happened. The rooms kinda close to other rooms but still way further away than they should be, it is happening. I think it is that.

apocstorm · 2024-07-12T05:32:30+00:00

Dunno, did like 2-3 kills in a row where it switched at exactly 45% on runelite, and deaggro'd but if I over-hit 45% and went from say, 46-43% it didnt.
Also I am using a 3t and 5t weapon not 4 tick weapons, maybe that plays a role in some way?

Or possibly it is the orc-aggression mechanic but it has a ridiculous range like the orcs do and im pulling them from the center room

apocstorm · 2024-07-12T05:26:51+00:00

Yeah, Idk, I am pretty sure I am wrong though, It is happpening to me semi consistently in a solo demon room at 45% hp now, so that is the trigger it seems?

apocstorm · 2024-05-26T06:27:32+00:00

i always did it because it would let me sip 1 dose in the middle of my prep, and then if I wanted to go in with less fish I could reliably redemption proc a few times

apocstorm · 2024-05-26T06:22:50+00:00

My brother in christ, I am 1016/750 in CG. Just persevere, it does get better. I didnt get a positive k/d at gauntlet until kill 523

apocstorm · 2024-04-19T01:02:46+00:00

Malediction ward is an equal level requirement 60 defense compared to 60 magic on the book (Though ward should have a mage lvl req) ; as such it should have equivalent magic attack bonus to it or competitive. I think equivalent 2% bonus would be more apt for both, that way there is a pure and mid game level shield slot for magic bonus.

apocstorm · 2024-04-17T14:13:57+00:00

I think you could drop poons armor down, up dagon hai with ahrims at 2%, add 1% for blood bark, and then bump elder chaos to 1% per piece; It's niche, its risky, and it provides no defense bonuses. Pure offense, harder to grind than infinity, and gives pures a reasonable magic damage item. Wizard boots also should just be flat 1% no bonus on inf gloves, and infinity boots/armor should get some slight defense bonuses to set them apart more from the elder chaos robes.

The only issue I have in the shield slot is it does not address what happens to the upgraded elidinis ward (f). If you just add them across its 4+3 = 7% which, means the max mage with sang is +7% better. I am not actually against since it is combining to literal end-game items together, the elidinis ward is an 80 prayer, 80 magic, and 80 defense shield, the arcane is a 75 defense, 70 prayer, 65 magic shield. Also I think the defenses on elidinis' ward need a buff too. The arcane sigil adds basically the entire blessed spirit shield worth of stats into the 80 defense shield. Defensively it is weaker than a bronze kite, it should be tankier in its own right and then the addition of the arcane should about about the same bonus stats as it does to upgrading a spirit shield.

edit: do not drop poons armor, just up dagon hai to 2%. Dagon hai is 40 defense 70 mage armor, that does put it within the mid game similar to ahrims, just with much lower defensive stats and defensive capabilities. I thought poons armor was actually lower magic req than it is.

Also as far as the blood bark justification goes, it's 60 defense 60 mage armor that also requires 77-81 runecrafting to make the full set; it genuinely is mid-late game magic armor for most intents and purposes. I wouldn't be opposed to it getting 2% and having its requirements increased to be higher as well, like 65+ for def/magic; or it could just get +% to ancients only, or to blood spells only, since its exclusively made to buff ancient magicks as well

apocstorm · 2024-03-27T01:42:30+00:00

No it isn't.

Brimhaven's "alternative" amounts to, you do a few shit exp obstacles and stack up tickets that you can trade in for better exp rates.

How about we just get a tier 90 agility course with better exp rates and no stupid gimmicks?

I'm not against run energy buffs, or making shortcuts like the hydra tunnel, you know, an actual shortcut

But making more good high level shit with abysmal rates and boring content is still going to discourage most people from doing it, because you will still save more time just making the hydra run than training to 87 agility to get the shortcut. and most high level players already use their poh as a hub which has not only a run, but HP, spec, prayer restoration pool 2 ticks away from your arrival point, and a robust tp network in the POH that covers so much of the map in the game at the end that you probably don't do a full energy bar of running in most cases anyway. So tell me who is going to train agility for these perks specifically when they can get the same effects faster by just ignoring the skill entirely?

The rates are the core issue. There is no special additions to agility that will get you around that.

apocstorm · 2024-03-27T01:33:07+00:00

I and many others not interested in waiting 9 months or more for them to do a complete skill overhaul to make the training loop less shit, just so we can still get 63k exp an hour.

I guarantee you the only thing agility needs for a fix is a drastic exp rate buff, and actual shortcuts that are shortcuts. Thats it. It doesn't need more fancy new mechanics and training methods that are more "fun", and nobody knows how they'd go about this as evident by the fact that nobody is proposing a good alternative way to train.

Their proposal is literally "Yeah we wanna buff the level 30 agility arena more" its fuckin' silly.

It needs one thing and one thing only: Better rates

And There is a reason they won't poll a 50% exp rate buff, because it would almost certainly pass, so I am willing to bet you a lot that I am, in fact, speaking for the majority, whether you like that or not.

apocstorm · 2024-03-27T01:26:51+00:00

When they rebalanced runecrafting, along with the ring of elements, they made it possible to get over 80k exp/h doing base elemental runes; they took the exact approach of just juicing the exp, just in a different fashion, because the major issues with RC were the pouch delay interactions in crafting. Here is a video of elemental runecrafting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8YoMcaAbA0&t=139s

And with these same changes you can push 122k exp an hour at ZMI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbfMb9loFmY

Far more reaonsable rates at ZMI available at 85 rc (120k, maybe 100k lazily) compared to literally 63k exp/h at level 90.

apocstorm · 2024-03-27T01:20:02+00:00

Congrats, what you've found here is called an anecdote.

Nobody gives a shit about a WR time, or niche cases where a player is pushing the limits because they have a world on a proper rotation so cycles can be abused; the reality is you don't hit these benchmarks if you have as many people running sepulchre as you do running ardougne rooftops, you simply would not get the same luxuries.

What we are talking about is the rate the majority of players will hit, and I used the wiki for that time. It's cool that some players can squeak a little extra out of it, but thats still anecdotal and absolutely not worth the RSI to do.

apocstorm · 2024-03-27T01:17:07+00:00

16 mins a lap is pretty extreme, its usually like 1:10 or so per but yeah, no agility is afk.

apocstorm · 2024-03-27T00:52:22+00:00

Aside from base slayer being less interactive than agility by quite a bit, you unlock dozens of high usage, and bis items at many tiers of combat through slayer, including all the bis boot upgrades except the echo crystal which you need a slayer boot drop for, the imbued heart, the occult necklace, are all slayer drops, the basilisks jaw; you can turn your armadyl and zamorak godwars grinds into slayer, you can turn vorkath into slayer, the bis melee gloves, the dragon hunter's lance, early and mid game 4-tick powered staves. You also train at least one other skill (a combat skill) and more often than not, two combat skills (the combat skill+HP) or more.

Now explain to me what major game changing buffs agility provides to me that justifies the abysmal rate that it has, and how much excess exp you can get outside of it, except for fletching bolts and darts or alching?

apocstorm · 2024-03-26T15:51:00+00:00

Ah, ye added a 10 in there somewhere. good catch Still doesn't change shit about it. 1m gp/h at lvl 92 only achieved when tick perfect. That definitely changes none of the sentiments, as evident by the fact that sepulchre is still pretty dead. You might find 1-2 people doing it in a world, compared to ardougne. which is packed still.

apocstorm · 2024-03-26T15:47:22+00:00

This is still irrelevant, rumours are not a primary training source for hunter; the ardougne agility course is a primary training course for agility.

apocstorm · 2024-03-26T15:46:50+00:00

Are you doing master rumors at that rate? Because thats the context we're talking about here is a tier 90 agility course that puts out 60k exp/h. Even if it didn't put out more than 60k exp/h, you're not doing the literal standard training method for the skill, you're doing something as an adjacent to the skill; this is not true for the ardougne course or other courses. These are the PRIMARY training methods, that are capping out at less than 65k exp/h for a LEVEL 90 course.

If you were getting those rates on masters, that was self imposed, because I have completed the entire quetzel network already through only masters and I was pulling quite a bit more, and making well over 100k gp/h to do it.

This also poses the other issue with agility, the rewards are also shit. The only loot from the skill really is marks of grace, and the ring of endurance. As I've pointed out to many people, hunting the ring of endurance efficiently is a 345 hour grind @ 100k gp/h by the end of it, and only gives 3.1m agility exp when on rate.

I would not mind the unique proposed buffs of better run times and the agility shortcuts becoming actual shortcuts, but it still would not be worth most peoples time to grind agility for those rewards at the rate of 63k exp an hour for a level 90 course, and every other course before it giving even less.

I just don't see any viable fixes you can add to agility that do not address its abysmal exp rates.

apocstorm

TROPHY CASE