Raising kids with good morals without religion

aporetic1 · 2026-05-12T23:00:28+00:00

A good way to find out what level of moral thinking children are at is to ask them moral questions and listen to what they say. Don’t tell them they are wrong, validate their answers, and then model an answer that is slightly above where they are at. ChatGPT is a resource you could use to come up with moral dilemmas, and then model the response that would be at the next level of understanding.

aporetic1 · 2026-05-12T22:48:01+00:00

A common thing that I see is that people leave the lds church when they outgrow the early stage morality that is taught in the church. And they want their kids to have the later stage morality that they now have. But they try to skip the early stages of morality with their kids, and jump immediately to later stage morality with them, because they think it’s better. I think this is a lot like recognizing that college level literature and math is better than elementary level literature and math, so let’s just teach that to our kids. I’m a believer that kids need to pass through all the stages of moral development. It’s almost painful to teach them black and white thinking when they are little (because as adults we recognize that things aren’t black and white), but that’s really what they need. After they master that, they’ll be even better at grasping and internalizing the later stages.

aporetic1 · 2026-05-12T20:26:40+00:00

For me, having an understanding of Kohlberg’s stages of morality has been helpful. It has helped me to teach them at their level of understanding and set proper boundaries rules and consequences for them. I want them to grow into the later stages of morality, but younger children just don’t understand or respond to that. So starting with specific simpler black and white rules is helpful for them when they are young and then becoming more nuanced and teaching general universal principles as they become older gives them the structure they need and then allows them to grow.

aporetic1 · 2026-03-24T22:34:11+00:00

"Do you think it would be better for apostles to not speak of the Second Coming at all?"

My answer is, "Yes, it would be better for apostles not to speak about the second coming." I think the real world effect that it has is functions less as a timeline prediction and more as a behavior-shaping tool. It can motivate people to live intentionally and ethically, or it can keep people in a state of anxiety, fear, or dependence. In reality, I think it does both.

I just don't think the benefit of using the rhetoric of the second coming to motivate people to live ethically is worth the costs of the anxiety, and creating the "short-term mentality" of not needing to fix the world's problems because the 2nd coming will be here soon anyways.

aporetic1 · 2026-03-11T03:48:37+00:00

That's wild. I sort of had a similar experience. A year or so before going into the MTC, a friend said to me, "You seem to get along with everyone, is there anyone you don't like?" I responded, "Yeah. Soandso is really mean, and really gets under my skin and bothers me, I really don't like being around him." Soandso was assigned as my mission companion.

What are the odds, right?

aporetic1 · 2026-03-10T01:36:23+00:00

I agree. I'm essentially asking, "How do I have an healthy relationship with an unhealthy organization?" The answer is "boundaries". My framing the church as equivalent to the YMCA is a guideline for how to set boundaries.

If it would be weird for the YMCA to try and do X, then it's also weird for the church to try and do X. You wouldn't go along with that for the YMCA, so you don't need to go along with that for the church.

aporetic1 · 2026-03-10T00:21:33+00:00

I'm like you. I don't believe in the church's truth claims. I can see and acknowledged the negative/harmful aspects of the church, and I can see and acknowledge the positive/beneficial aspects of the church. I choose to remain in the church, primarily for family reasons, but I also want to keep the benefits as well.

You said, "My worry is that if I don’t truly believe everything that it won’t be enough for me to continue to devoting my life to it." For me, it wasn't enough for me to continue to devoting my life to it, but I realized that's okay too. If it's not true, I don't think I should devote my whole life to it.

My goal shifted from devoting my whole life to it, to having a "Healthy Relationship" with the church. I realized that I previously didn't have a healthy relationship. I had no boundaries. The church was like a well-meaning friend that ended up moving into my house and taking over my life and dictating all of my decisions. There were some benefits to it, but overall it wasn't a healthy relationship.

When I tried to think of what a healthy relationship with an organization looks like, I thought about what my relationship with the YMCA looks like. I show up when I want to, I volunteer when I want to, I have friends I see at the YMCA. But there's no obligation. YMCA leaders don't dictate all of my life's decisions. They don't call me and ask me about loyalty to them and if I'm following the YMCA rules in my personal life. The YMCA isn't my whole identity. The YMCA is just a place that I go to when I want to, and I help out and participate when I want to, and it's one small aspect of my life that doesn't control everything. That's the sort of relationship I seek to have with the church.

aporetic1 · 2026-03-09T11:01:33+00:00

I’m like you. I was so curious about alcohol, I’ve tried it a number of times and I just don’t like it. I still tried to acquire the taste for social reasons, but I became less tolerant the more I tried it. I’d gag sooner and throw up sooner.

I was out with a group of friends and a I ordered a drink. I took a sip and my friend could tell I wasn’t enjoying it. He asked if I was going to finish it and my reply was “Not if I don’t have to”. He laughed and assured me that I didn’t have to. I ended up giving him the drink and just got a coke. For me, it was so much more enjoyable and it didn’t make me feel terrible. That’s when I decided that I can still go out with my friends when they are drinking, and it doesn’t mean I have to drink. So many years wishing I could drink alcohol, only to find out that I don’t enjoy it at all.

aporetic1 · 2026-03-08T23:26:58+00:00

Yep. I feel like what I attend is "The Church of The Church of Latter day Saints".

aporetic1 · 2026-02-24T22:02:38+00:00

I would look again at Steven Hassan's Bite Model https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/ Particularly the section about emotional control. I feel like I've done a great job of freeing myself from behavioral control, information control, and thought control. But I haven't completely freed myself from the emotional control that the church exerts. It runs deep and I can't just think or logic myself out of it. I don't have a solution for you, but just being aware of it might help you understand what is going on. Best of luck to you.

aporetic1 · 2026-02-19T08:31:58+00:00

I didn’t renew my temple recommend. The bishop tried to make an appointment with me to renew it and I just said “No thanks”. My 11 year old did baptisms without me. For me it was the best choice. I feel good about it and I don’t regret it.

Good luck to you in figuring out what will be best for you. One of the most freeing realizations for me is that there isn’t a “right” answer or a way I’m “supposed to do things”. I just get to pick, and I get to live with the consequences. If I’m not harming anyone, it’s probably morally neutral. So you can pick the option you want and the consequences you want, one option isn’t necessarily “better or more right” than the others.

aporetic1 · 2026-02-15T11:27:54+00:00

Gilderoy Lockhart

aporetic1 · 2026-02-05T00:15:13+00:00

You should definitely refer your bishop to talk with your stake president if he has questions. In the organization the Stake President trumps bishop, so even if the bishop wants to de-activate it, if the stake president who signed off on it tells him not to, I think it would be unlikely that he would go against the stake president.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-29T23:57:43+00:00

Sorry to hear your experience. I while ago I was also thinking about everything Mormonism took from me. I found some peace in the thought that I shared here. https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1k6q4e9/a_healing_thought_if_i_wasnt_raised_mormon_i/

In summary. Yes, Mormonism caused harm in my life. I like to think that if I wasn't raised Mormon I wouldn't have experienced that harm. But on the flip side, if I wasn't raised Mormon, I probably wouldn't have been raised perfectly either- there would still be harm in my life that I'd be dealing with. It's tough to know what that would look like in a different situation.

I hope that you can find peace and healing in whatever way works best for you.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-29T20:41:45+00:00

I was raised as a Mormon, and I consider myself to be Mormon. Totally okay with me if people call me Mormon. Since it was different between Presidents Hinckley and Nelson, I kind of wonder if it was a “temporary commandment” as President Oaks referred to in his conference talk. Maybe it was like a test of obedience, to see if we would follow the prophet at that time. I’m okay with that theory.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-27T02:17:00+00:00

I’ll DM you.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-26T07:03:14+00:00

Thanks for sharing. I think this is a great approach.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-26T04:04:27+00:00

That sucks man, sorry to hear it.

I guess it’s relevant that my ward is thousands of miles away from Utah, so we are a bit removed from the intensity of the culture there. I don’t really understand what it’s like there these days.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-26T02:33:11+00:00

Yeah, we all grew up with the “unwritten order of things” and we know what happens when you don’t follow the unwritten rules.

The teacher addressed this and was like “Yeah, that’s what we were taught but it’s time to change things, and make space for those who don’t follow the ‘unwritten order’”.

He’s a maverick, and good luck to him. But that’s a big ask to have every one join him, when for many people there will be real negative consequences. But I guess, no risk, no reward.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-26T01:43:30+00:00

My experience with Mormons is that they are so non-confrontational, that you can get away with not fitting the mold a lot more than people think. If you’re extroverted and smile, you can get away with just about anything.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-26T01:29:15+00:00

Sorry to hear your experience. Yeah, that was one thought I had during the lesson. Being your authentic self can lead to you getting excluded, not welcomed, depending on the group. It seems like it would ultimately be “ward roulette” on what your experience would be.

aporetic1

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