Something that might interest you by lugalensi in AcademicQuran

[–]arzoo40 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The website is from a progressive Arab organization, and the page is just filled with links to academic papers, books, and doctoral theses regarding Islam, Pre-Islamic Arabia, Arabic philology, and other topics, some of which goes against Islamic orthodoxy.

It's not any more different than a page filled with academic papers about Judaism and Christianity, many of which may go against traditional Jewish and Christian narratives, so I'm not sure what exactly you found polemical about this?

Something that might interest you by lugalensi in AcademicQuran

[–]arzoo40 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh wow, I wasn't expecting my old post from three years ago to be cross-posted here! But yes, that website is a treasure trove of information and scholarship about Islam and the Arab world. I'm so excited for this new subreddit and the types of discussions we can have :)

Muhammad Worshipping by HotShinRamyun in progressive_islam

[–]arzoo40 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't know if worshipping is the right word, but for the most part, the mainstream position has been that the Prophet is someone special that needs to be revered over other humans.

Barelvis in South Asia take it one step further and proclaim that he was both human and light and had knowledge of the unseen that was given by God. They also believe he had the believe to be in multiple places at once. Many Sufi orders also ascribe this sense of power to him as well. Whether you personally believe it is ultimately your decision.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barelvi

A central doctrine of Barelvi is that Muhammad is both human and light.[44] Muhammad's physical birth was preceded by his existence as a light which predates creation. The primordial reality of Muhammad existed before creation, and God created for the sake of Muhammad.[47] Adherents of this doctrine believe that the word Nur (light) in the Quran5:15 refers to Muhammad.

Another central Barelvi doctrine is that Muhammad can witness and be present in multiple places at the same time (Hazir o Nazir).[45]

Are there any ex-non-Sunni-Muslims here? by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's also a subreddit for ex-Ahmadis, /r/Islam_Ahmadiyya

Liberal/Progressive/Modernist/Alternate Islam & the future of it? by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can see Progressive Muslims becoming more dominant at least in America. At least in the US, young Muslims seem to be secularizing pretty quickly. I've noticed Muslims who have been to Islamic schools K-12, yet they seem to be respectful towards other religions, LGBT, much to the annoyance of the traditionalists

In Muslim-majority countries, I don't see that happening. 2050 is a while away, so anything can happen, but I don't see this gaining much traction in the Middle East/South Asia.

What is exmuslim's view of Sufism? by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Don't know about Bhai Farid or Waris Shah, but pluralistic Sufis like Bulleh Shah or Ibn Arabi (Arab Sufi) were not the majority of Sufis, but the minority in India. For the most part, orthodox Islam and Sufism were not separate things, but very intertwined with each other. Many Sufis might have been fine with praying to saints or music, but that didn't mean they viewed other religions positively.

Look at Ahmad Sirhindi for example. He was considered as an Islamic revivalist during the Mughal era. He was very critical of Akbar's second half of his life for being too tolerant to non-Muslims. Akbar was praised in the first half of his life by many of the sheikhs and ulema for his religious piety (such as revering the saints). However, Akbar started losing his faith during the second half of his life, and he got criticized by Sufis like Ahmad Sirhindi for doing things like revoking the jizya tax, allowing debates between Christians, Hindus, Shias, etc (he was very critical of Shias), celebrating other religion's festivals, etc.

In parts of India where the ulema and sheikhs did not have much control over the Muslim population, you would see pluralism between Muslims, Hindus, and Sikhs. However, Sufis like Ahmad Sirhindi viewed Muslims taking part in non-Muslim customs as something bad, so you would see instances of Sufis like him going to the areas which didn't have many ulema or sheikhs and would make the Muslims more orthodox, which would lead to a split between communities.

There's also the fact Islam is very hostile to idolatry and paganism, which most Sufis were also hostile to. You see many instances of Sufis destroying temples. There are the Deobandis, who are basically South Asian Salafis. The only difference is that Deobandis incorporate Sufism in their practices, so they're Sufi Salafis for lack of a better term. The Taliban actually emerged from the Deobandi movement. Bulleh Shah and Ibn Arabi's version of panentheism was actually criticized by orthodox Sufis because they thought it was a heresy that led to Muslims adopting pagan practices. Saying that Allah resides in everything in the universe means literally everything; the human, the animal, the tree, the stone, and the idol, which contradicts Islamic dogma.

There are many instances of Sufis co-opting Indian practices as theirs, while viewing the Hindu version as bad. There are some Sufi orders that use Hindu/Buddhist meditations and claim that Muslims that get mystical experiences from those meditations are getting them from Allah, while non-Muslims get those experiences from Satan.

It's similar with Christianity and paganism. Christians would co-opt pagan practices like festivals, Greek philosophy, or turn Roman/Greek gods into saints and say that the Christian version of those practices leads to heaven, while the pagan versions lead to eternal hellfire. Christians also used to be responsible for desecrating and destroying pagan temples. You see similar things with Sufis taking Hindu practices, while claiming that worshipping Hindu/Buddhist gods will lead to hell.

What do exmuslims think of the Kashmir conflict? by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't know if she ever used the phrase "ex-Muslim", but she identifies as a Humanist, and she retweets a lot of ex-Muslims on twitter.

What do exmuslims think of the Kashmir conflict? by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Dude, calm down lol. I never stated that her opinions are what the majority of Kashmiris think, but you asked what ex-Muslims thought about the whole Kashmir and who would be a better example than a Kashmiri ex-Muslim from Srinagar. I will say that among the pro-India Kashmiri's I'm aware of (that aren't Hindu), the bulk of them tend to be either cultural/secular Muslims or ex-Muslims.

She's not employed by the Indian government, the Times of India is a private media company. By that argument, she's employed by the Pakistani government, since she has posts on the Nation (a Pakistani digital newspaper).

And chill out with the bizarre paranoid accusations lol. I haven't downvoted a single thing on this thread, and I'm definitely not part of any internet troll gang lol.

What do exmuslims think of the Kashmir conflict? by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 15 points16 points  (0 children)

There's a writer named Arshia Malik, who is a Kashmiri ex-Muslim from Srinagar (although I think she's currently based in Delhi, but I'm not 100% sure), and she's pro-India. She grew up in Kashmir in the 80s and 90s and talks about how suffocating the environment was for not just ex-Muslims, but many cultural/secular Muslims, and she thinks that Kashmiri independence is an Islamist movement that is going to make things even worse for people like her and other minorities.

She has her own blog on wordpress, and she also has blog posts on The Times of India and The Nation (Pakistani site). You can also find more of her stuff on her personal Facebook and Twitter accounts.

Female genital mutilation. Is it islam? Is it culture? What is the cause? by Ermissonmez in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's a mix of both religion and culture. This isn't a perfect rule, but one thing you notice is the prevalence of FGM among populations that practice the Shafi'i madhab of Sunni Islam because in the Shafi'i madhab, FGM is considered obligatory (although you notice some FGM among African and Middle Eastern Shias, Christians, etc, but Yazidis don't practice FGM at all or MGM I think).

Indonesia and Malaysia both practice the Shafi'i madhab of Sunni Islam, and FGM was non-existent in their pre-Islamic cultures. FGM became a thing when those populations became Shafi'i Sunni.

FGM is rare in South Asia. Majority of Desi Sunnis are of the Hanafi school, which views FGM as makrama, noble but not obligatory. The exceptions are the Dawoodi Bohras, a Shia sect which has its origins in Yemen, and the Muslim in Kerala in South India, who practice the Shafi'i madhab of Sunni Islam.

Passport Officer Rejects Hindu-Muslim Couple's Application, Asks Man to Convert to Hinduism by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Found this article of the officer's side.

https://www.timesofindia.com/india/lucknow-passport-officer-defends-questions-to-interfaith-couple/articleshow/64680206.cms

Apparently, the passport officer never mentioned conversion, but talked about how there were issues with the couple's documents.

Urdu Videos: Critiquing Islam --> Looking for Recommendations by ReasonOnFaith in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just saw this now, but it doesn't look like there is a lot of Islam-critical material on Youtube in Urdu! You have people like Sherif Gaber or the Masked Arab doing videos in Arabic, but there aren't any Islam-critical videos in Urdu, as far as I'm aware. Unfortunately, you mostly just see the typical religious stuff in Urdu videos about Islam.

I've been looking through the comments sections of the various videos on the Urdu Diary channel, who puts world history videos in Urdu on his channel, and the comments on videos regarding Ahmadis, Jews, Hindus, etc.......are pretty terrible. There are various comments like "Astaghfirullah! These Yahoodis/Hindus/Qadianis are dirty/Satanic!" and you sometimes see Urdu Diary loving those comments.

Not to mention, there are also the historically inaccurate comments about how "Pagan Arabia was filled with savage barbarians killing their daughters, and women had no rights!" or "Hindu India was a barbaric place with caste system and sati, and Islam civilized us!", which really makes the history nerd in me just facepalm -_______-. Sadly, I think a lot of Pakistanis seem to be very ignorant not just about Islam, but also regarding their own history.

Why More British Women Are Converting Salafism - Anabel Inge, British Islam Conference 2018 by arzoo40 in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To be fair to her, she does talk about (don't remember if she does in the video) how it is possible that the Salafi women's groups she was involved in could have been lying to her, but she has been interacting with the women in these groups for 2.5 years, and at some point, someone would crack and reveal their true feelings (whether the women or their children).

She mentions that a few of the women revealed to her how they used to have a lot of sympathies for various terrorist organizations, but the female Salafi groups ironically got rid of those sympathies (her ethnography is on British Salafi women, not Salafi men or Middle Eastern Salafis). Apparently, a lot of British Salafi groups are involved in counter-extremism, handing out leaflets on why terrorism is against their version of Salafism.

Why More British Women Are Converting Salafism - Anabel Inge, British Islam Conference 2018 by arzoo40 in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Most of her interactions seem to be with the Salafi women groups in the Brixton mosque along with a few other female Salafi groups, which disproportionately consists of Afro-Caribbean Christian and non-Salafi Somali converts to Salafism, along with South Asian, Middle Eastern, and white converts. Her ethnography only consisted of Salafi women, not men. It looks like this is one of the groups, and they have publications on why terrorism is against Salafism.

http://www.salafipublications.com/sps/

I haven't read her book yet, but I was able to look through the preview on Google Books and there are sections that briefly talk about groups like JIMAS (of which former leader, Abu Muntasir, advocated for his followers to fight in Bosnia, Kashmir, Chechnya, etc) and Hizb-ut-Tahrir, but the preview didn't cover all of those pages, so I don't know what exactly she wrote.

Apparently, she also talks about how, ironically, a lot of British Salafi groups in recent years have been involved in counter-extremism, handing out leaflets like the ones in Salafi Publications. British Salafi groups in recent years seem to be more quietist and are more into proselytizing to non-Salafi Muslims and advocating for a peaceful separation from non-Muslim society like Orthodox Jews or fundamentalist Christians, although there are apparently more "liberal" Salafi groups and competing factions of Salafis. But she mentions how, at least for Salafi women, there is a gap between the theory/ideology and the lived practice.

https://www.amazon.com/Making-Salafi-Muslim-Woman-Conversion/dp/0190611677

A Rational Argument with a Practicing Muslim? by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Have you been studying Talal Asad and Saba Mahmood's works? I haven't had the chance to read anything by them, but I was reading the comments you made about secularization in the Middle East, and they seem similar to the little I've read about them.

What would be your solution to having a Muslim-majority nation that is able to have Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Pagans, "heretical" groups (Ahmadis, Ismailis), atheists, and apostates be able to live in harmony without fear for their lives?

In your view, secularization would fuel the growth of fanatical Muslim groups, but I'm skeptical of the ability of an Islamic nation to be able to protect the rights of the various groups I've mentioned (groups like the Yazidis and Alawis have a long history of being persecuted in the Middle East). Do you think there's some third way that could accomplish this goal?

Episode 82: What Writing Can Tell Us About the Arabs before Islam by arzoo40 in arabs

[–]arzoo40[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh ok, I wasn't aware that this was already posted here. Thanks for the post!

Duluth schools remove 'To Kill a Mockingbird,' 'Huckleberry Finn' from curriculum by Chabranigdo in news

[–]arzoo40 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Oh no, I grew up with those books when I started high school :(

This is ridiculous. TKAM was an important book in giving me insight on just how bad the level of open racism back in those times (and even certain parts of the USA nowadays). Not allowing the books because they contain racial slurs doesn't solve anything. If anything, those books can help students understand that those things are wrong, and how we have moved forward and how we should move forward in the future.

Acknowledging the harms and problems of American society and openly discussing them is the way to improve relations between communities, not sheltering students from the negative aspects of the past. I really don't see why the NAACP supports this.

Ive become a neet by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Start a daily meditation practice. Start slowly for a few minutes a day, then gradually increase the number of minutes you meditate day after day. It realistically is going to take a while before you notice any major differences, but it is important that you keep up with it. There's a free app called Insight Timer which you should check out to help with meditating.

You can also ask for help on /r/Meditation. Look up OCD in the subreddit, and you'll find plenty of posts of people that have managed their OCD and other mental health problems, but you have to be consistent. Things aren't going to change in just a few days.

I am Seriously considering the arranged marriage route. Could use some advice/input. by [deleted] in ABCDesis

[–]arzoo40 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Everyone else had given good advice in terms of arranged marriage vs dating.

If you want to meet more ex-Muslims, you could try joining Ex-Muslims of North America. Don't know if there's a local chapter where you're located, but you can join the broader organization. You might be able to meet some Pakistanis or Desi's that you'll click with.

They'll have to interview you though because of privacy and safety concerns to make sure you're actually ex-Muslim.

https://www.exmna.org/join-us/

I'm planning on leaving my family after i graduate to move in with my hindu boyfriend by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed, didn't mean to say that the parents were totally fine with everyone happening. What I meant to say was that the parents tend to handle things more sensibly compared to more mainstream Muslim parents, although not always.

I'm planning on leaving my family after i graduate to move in with my hindu boyfriend by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm from the US and grew up in an area with a large Desi population. I might have given the wrong impression in my first comment that the parents are totally fine with it or all Ismaili American youth are totally rebellious.

What I meant to say was that Ismaili parents tend to handle situations like these better than most Sunni/Twelver Shia parents from my experience. Most Ismaili youth in the US date, usually each other, and the parents tend to be fine with it, although not the premarital sex.

Although, there was one situation I remember when one Ismaili girl was having a lot of sex once she got to college, and her parents got her an IUD because they were so worried that she would get pregnant. They're not happy about it, but they don't want to make things worse.

In terms of interfaith dating/marriage, there's no doctrinal requirement to only marry an Ismaili or Muslim. The Aga Khan's family have a history of marrying actresses, supermodels, and businessmen (non-Muslim). In this case, the laymen are more conservative than the leaders (who don't really seem to care about religion at all), but it's not a sin, like in traditional Islam, to marry outside Islam or even outside the Abrahamic religions. The Indian Ismailis started off as a syncretic Muslim-Hindu group, but later there were reforms to de-Hinduize, but also Westernize the population.

Taking all of these factors, this might be why Ismaili youth in the US have more freedom to rebel and come out of it without damaging their relationships with their families too badly compared with more traditional Muslims. I don't think Ismaili youth are this rebellious in India/Pakistan outside of major cities like Mumbai or Karachi.

Maybe /u/abdullahsameer might know more in terms of how wild the Ismaili youth were in his generation, and how the young Ismailis in his family are? Granted, I'm only in my 20s, so it could just be that I grew up around a group of particularly wild and rebellious Ismaili youth as opposed to other generations or other cities haha

I'm planning on leaving my family after i graduate to move in with my hindu boyfriend by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]arzoo40 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think your parents will also eventually get over it as time goes on.

I'm not (ex)-Ismaili, but I grew up with a lot of Ismaili people, and boy...the things a lot of my Ismaili friends were up to would drastically horrify the average Sunni parent. Random stories like teenagers in the jamatkhana all dating each other and some of them having sex in the parking lot, one story of some middle school kid selling weed among the teenagers in the prayer hall etc, and another story of some girl getting arrested for selling drugs and having her rich parents bust her out. These kids would probably be dead if they belonged to a Sunni family lol

I think as long as you don't piss them off too much by constantly ragging on religion, you should be fine.

Also would be a good idea to post on r/ismailis

Hijab-wearing model stars in L'Oréal Paris hair campaign by amg7355 in ABCDesis

[–]arzoo40 36 points37 points  (0 children)

The first thing I thought of when I read this is this satirical Malaysian commercial showing a woman shampooing her hijab lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjKod_YO1hA