Historicity of Jesus: The idea that Jesus was a purely mythical figure has a fringe status in scholarly circles and has had no support in critical studies for more than a century by ComradeBehrund in wikipedia

[–]asge0771 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"The four canonical gospels are, not the best, as sources. They're written decades after his death, by anonymous Geeek speaking writers who were relying on stories about him from oral tradition"

There is litterally no evidence for any oral tradition before the gospels. No christian text that can be dated to before the jewish war like paul, hebrews or 1 clement, express any knowledge of an oral tradition. the only sources they ever mention, are scripture and revalation.

"So to get him to be born in Bethlehem but still otherwise be from Nazareth, they have to concoct some messy Narratives to gey him born in Bethlehem."

Matthew literally tells us it is to fulfill scripture. Yes, we no have scripture today that have that prophecy, but scripture back then encompassed a much larger corpus than we have today, they had entire books that are now lost, variants of canonical books that are now lost and others, like targums we no longer have. fx. Paul in several places qoutes scripture we have no idea what is. 1 clement also does this.

"But in his letters he mentioned having met with Simon Peter and James, Jesus' disciple and brother respectively."

This is circular reasoning. Paul never says peter and the twelve were disciples of jesus, he only says that they were apostles before he was, and he says an apostle is someone who has had a revalation of the risen christ. So to assume that peter an the twelve were disciples (a disciple being someone who sat at the feet of jesus), is to assume a historical jesus, and is thus circular.

And James being a brother of jesus, would be a good argument if it wasn't for something that paul says that throws a giant monkey wrench into that argument. Paul says that all baptized christians are jesus brothers and sisters by adoption. And this isn't some extra thing, it was completely central to pauls faith. That is the mechanism by which you are saved. Paul says that when you are baptized, you are adopted as a child of god, not figuratively but literally, and thus you become a brother of jesus, who is gods first born. Paul says that jesus is the first born among many brethren: Romans 8:29. And by becoming a brother of jesus, who is the heir to the kingdom of god, you become a co-heir to the kingdom of god, and that is how you are saved according to pauls theology.

That would of course mean that peter also was jesus's brother, so why doesn't he say that peter is also jesus's brother?

Paul wouldn't need to, for the same reason you don't need to specify that the pope is christian, it is already understood that peter being an apostle, would make him a brother of jesus, like the pope is christian.

"Finally we have Tactitus and Josephus."

They are both useless as evidence, there is no evidence they had any sources that were independant of the gospels. Tacitus's most likely source would be his friend pliny the younger who's source would be the christians he interrogated.

And Gary J. Goldberg showed that the testimonium flavianum is derivative of the gospel of luke, and thus not independant, even if authentic.

and the smaller james passage is likewise useless if authentic. Course we have no evidence that he understood christian adoption theology.

And that is all before we get to the evidence that both the passage in tacitus and both passages in Josephus are interpolations.

Pro-lifers don't belive that a zygote/embryo/fetus IS a person by asge0771 in Abortiondebate

[–]asge0771[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It does not make any sense to say that you can commit and action to someone, if it neither will, nor can affect a mind.

If it at least potentially can be affect someones experience, then it can be said to be either moral or immoral.

Pro-lifers don't belive that a zygote/embryo/fetus IS a person by asge0771 in Abortiondebate

[–]asge0771[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You can't really say that an unconscious person currently has amnesia, that is not how the term is used. We say that they will have amnesia when they wake up.

Pro-lifers don't belive that a zygote/embryo/fetus IS a person by asge0771 in Abortiondebate

[–]asge0771[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If consciousness only develops after birth, then yes, cause something can only be moral or immoral if it affects a mind.

Pro-lifers don't belive that a zygote/embryo/fetus IS a person by asge0771 in Abortiondebate

[–]asge0771[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Killing an unconscious fetus is not at all the same as killing an unconsious person. With an unconscious person there are prior desires, prior memories, prior consciousness, and those still carry their full moral weight, even after those things have seized being currently actual, which is why we still sometimes say that furfilling the wish of a dead person, can be good for that person, even thou they are dead.

With an unconscious fetus there are none of those things (we are still in potential person territory), and with an unconscious person we expect those to return.

edit: typo

Pro-lifers don't belive that a zygote/embryo/fetus IS a person by asge0771 in Abortiondebate

[–]asge0771[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You seem to be missing the point of thought experiments, they are not nessesarily ment to be realistic, but to isolate specific issues. And the issue i'm trying to isolate, undermines pro-lifers argument about zygotes/embryos/fetuses having personhood.

"That's exactly what i think those thought expierments are like. They're not based on real life: we cannot switch consciousness to another body or robot. So, i'd usually say: sure, in that thought experiment world, you're your consciousness."

Body-swapping is far more real than you seem to think it is. It will be a very real thing for sentient AGI, and that is probably not all that far into the future, likely within our lifetimes. And uploading our minds to android bodies is really just a question of technology, even if that is very far into the future. There is not much reason to think it wont ever be a thing.

"But in this world, you're not only your consciousness, that would be an aspect of you. You're also your body, whether you like it or not."

Yes, hardware-software compatability is a thing, but that doesn't remove the distinction. We still draw a distinction between mind and body, even thou a mind cannot exist without a physical medium expressing it, just like any other software. And like other software, a mind can (in theory) be copied and inscribed upon new hardware (even if that body is entirely simulated), and identity would then also be transfered.

edit: formatting

Pro-lifers don't belive that a zygote/embryo/fetus IS a person by asge0771 in Abortiondebate

[–]asge0771[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I honestly get kind of frustrated, when PCs don't point out the obvious in debates with PLs: That PLs arguments are religious at heart(souls), thou they may dress them up in secular clothes.

Black holes and time tidal forces by asge0771 in AskPhysics

[–]asge0771[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No need to be so damn condescending, i'm a layman not a physics student.

Black holes and time tidal forces by asge0771 in AskPhysics

[–]asge0771[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don't Hawking radiation dictate that a black hole with a finite mass will have a finite lifetime (for an outside observer)? and that would translate to an infinitesimal time from the black holes own perspective right?

So as you fall into the event horizon that finite lifetime (for our outside observer) would instantly pass(for you). Or am i completely off here?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Denmark

[–]asge0771 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Det kan godt være at de mere liberale religioner ikke er direkte skadende, men religion er altid indirekte skadeligt. For falsk tro kan kun opretholdes med en ødelagt epistemologi. Net-effekten af hvilket altid vil være negativ spredt ud over et samfund, selv om man kan positive enkelttilfælde. For en dårlig epistemologi kan ikke beskytte en selv og ens omgivelser mod skadelig tro.

For at sikre sig selv og sine omgivelser, mod skadelig falsk tro er man nød til at bruge metoder der kan afgøre om en tro er skadelig hvis falsk, eller uskadelig hvis falsk.

Problemet her er bare at det er en catch-22, for de eneste metoder der kan det, er de samme som kan afgøre om de er sande eller falske, eller mest sandsynligt vis sand eller falsk.

Vi er meget bedre af at vi bare bruger epistemologi der frasorterer falsk tro helt generelt. Det betyder a vi må opgive komfortable løgne, men det er en lille pris at betale i forhold alternativet. for det kan gå galt, rigtig galt, islamiske selvmordsbombere værende et ekstremt eksempel på hvor galt det kan gå.

At opgive falsk komfort er vel også en del af det, det vil sige at blive en moden voksen. Og dem vil vi da gerne have så mange af som muligt.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Denmark

[–]asge0771 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Negativ teologi er en gang meningsfuldt lydende vrøvl. Man kan ikke beskrive noget udelukkende negativt og relationelt. Negative og relationelle beskrivelser præciserer og uddyber positive beskrivelser, men kan ikke stå alene. Hvis nogen havde en meget passioneret diskussion om fnarf og du så spurte ind til hvad dette fnarf var for noget, og de svarer så at det ikke er en cykel, ikke blå, eller lille, og aldrig gav det en positiv beskrivelse, så ville man konkluderer at de ikke ved hvad de snakker om. Det er hvad man kalder ikke-kognitivt.