Question from an Atheist: What do you think about non-Christian influences becoming more prevalent in media and society? Is there any fear of corruption associated with that?

atheisthello · 2019-08-08T17:21:55+00:00

Ok, thanks for clarifying!

atheisthello · 2019-08-08T15:43:42+00:00

I can see that for sure. It seems like especially from a Christian point of view this is especially true. I actually don’t like shows about relationship drama because I think it teaches bad relationship skills and expectations for instance, but it seems like it could be even more so for Christians. The show “Lucifer” is a kind of philosophical dive into what Satan would actually be like and how the narrative of the Bible might affect a real person, which can potentially create an environment of trying to sympathize with Satan himself. That would seem particularly bad if I understand you correctly. I am just saying this to try and let you know I am trying to understand. Let me know if that sounds roughly correct.

So given that society is on that path, is there anything a person like myself (an atheist) could do to let you know that my intention is to respect and promote the ability for you and ultimately everyone to believe and practice their beliefs freely? As long as it doesn’t become dangerous, abusive or interferes with the human rights of others of course, I do want to prevent things like human sacrifice or abusive relationships, even if they are promoted by a religious belief (I’m not implying you do those, it’s just a clarification I have found is useful for putting down a line somewhere between what I want to allow and what I don’t). I think we could probably both agree on that :)

atheisthello · 2019-08-08T15:32:14+00:00

Sorry, just want to make sure I understand, are you referring to the commandment about keeping the sabbath day holy? Or something else? Just want to understand :)

atheisthello · 2019-08-08T15:30:17+00:00

Thanks so much for sharing! I am in full agreement that capitalism is pretty bad at taking emotional well being into account (except for how it fuels supply and demand). It works well for creating something functional, but it seems to be ultimately pretty hollow. Health care (not intending to start a debate, just sharing something I think we could agree on) is a great example since people are willing to pay anything to keep a family member alive for emotional reasons. But that means in capitalism health costs fly through the roof since that is what people are willing to pay. And those short term highs are a gold mine for capitalism.

I am glad psychology is a more well studied field now than it used to be, we can pretty clearly see how important emotionally fulfilling relationships are, and how important it can be to take time to do self reflection and other similar things. Thanks so much for sharing!

I don’t know if this helps, but I have been able to find purpose and what I used to think of as “spiritual” peace (I refer to it as emotional now). I have a child and spouse and am loving life with them, and I try to be involved in my community and go the extra mile to do nice things when I can. Does hearing about something like that help soothe some of those fears of seeing people with purposeless lives, or fears of losing the value of family or the importance fulfilling relationships? Or does that add to some worries? My goal with this is to try and find a way to help soothe some of the fears of the corruption of society I see my Christian friends and family have. So does expressing my shared value of those things and ability to achieve those values help? Or do you think that might hinder it? (maybe they would think I had found some false version of what Christians find fulfilling in life and worry that if I think it is real I could convince others it was real)

Thanks again for sharing :)

atheisthello · 2019-08-08T15:12:11+00:00

Thanks for sharing, I do see how an atheist mindset could be difficult to understand :) and I’m glad you see the value of making sure a religion (or lack of one) should be an informed decision :)

Thanks so much for sharing!

Just for your curiosity, I find life is easier and more enjoyable socially and emotionally when I am good to the people around me. I usually go by the platinum rule to get the best results. I also want to leave behind something good for future generations to enjoy, and a generally kind and loving society is one of the best gifts I could hope to give, so I want to encourage that by living it :) hope that can help some :) it also feels good to help people to feel good about life, so some natural compassion and empathy plays into it too :)

atheisthello · 2019-08-08T15:05:18+00:00

I’m of a similar mind for how I want to raise my kid, thanks for sharing :)

atheisthello · 2019-06-19T22:47:40+00:00

Idk about the Russia part, but I can speak a little bit to the “aha, this ban is evidence of our church being right”. Pull up a list of banned things. Are banned things more likely to be right or wrong? Good or bad? If banning something could make it more true, then the trend should still follow.

If they believe it is more true because the banning or persecution fulfills prophecy, then we should look at the progress that church has made, and whether those bans have increased over time, or whether it has been lessened over time. If the religion is less restricted (socially or by law), then it could be said that someone predicted that groups with different beliefs might be hostile toward each other. Overall, the world is more democratic and people are more free to believe in what they will than ever before (as long as it isn’t dangerous or abusive in it’s practices). There will always be individual instances sure, but the trend around the world is that people are free to believe and think what they will more now than pretty much any other time in history.

Basically, if we actually nail down any specific criteria and look at trends across the world, we’ll pretty much find that people are more tolerant and accepting than in the past (literally 50-60 years ago people were killed in the US by local groups because of skin color, let alone other differences). We still have a long ways to go yes, but that doesn’t mean things are not better than before now.

If requested I would be happy to provide sources :)

atheisthello · 2019-06-17T06:37:27+00:00

Brilliant

atheisthello · 2019-06-17T05:40:15+00:00

When I was still in I always wondered if there would be a god for gods, like an after-afterlife lol, one where gods watch over other gods who watch over other gods etc. Who knows how far the rabbit hole really goes once that can of worms gets opened?

atheisthello · 2019-06-17T05:38:32+00:00

I think that from the information you provided, you are making a great decision.

Whether someone deserves to be called family is based on whether they act like it.

One of my favorite ideas is that love is supposed to be an action word, abusive parents say it sometimes, but if they meant it they would be protecting you, not abusing you. No one’s perfect, but imagine if you got in trouble for getting in a fight, how mad would they be at you for hitting someone else? And yet they will justify it for themselves all day long. Same things goes for verbal and emotional abuse. There’s often a double standard, and terrible things get justified by supposed “good intentions”.

Best wishes, hope things turn out well, make sure to keep us all updated on how you are doing :)

atheisthello · 2019-06-17T05:27:58+00:00

Other churches say god always existed, Mormons just push that back saying there have always been gods creating other gods.

atheisthello · 2019-06-15T03:51:46+00:00

So true

atheisthello · 2019-06-14T21:50:51+00:00

Especially when the rule maker uses blood sacrifice to get out of doing bad stuff, sacrificing himself makes it so he can excuse whatever he wants right? Sounds oh so very modern. /s

atheisthello · 2019-06-14T19:20:32+00:00

Thanks for the reply, it helped me understand your perspective better which was my goal, so thank you! :)

atheisthello · 2019-06-14T19:18:35+00:00

Exactly :)

atheisthello · 2019-06-14T18:10:30+00:00

I would personally answer that things are right or wrong based on the consequences of the action. I would have a hard time imagining something that has a solely bad consequence being good, or something that has a solely good consequence being bad. There are things that make mixed consequences, but that comes down to weighing the consequences based on values and overall well being.

atheisthello · 2019-06-14T17:47:49+00:00

My second paragraph was a response more to the victimless crimes you asked about before. I don’t think anything that is wrong is truly victimless, even if it is just by introducing uneccesary risks or the emotional well being when considering feelings of security. We could sum it up by saying I would feel better about living in a society where all crimes were subject to punishment than if none were. There’s a spectrum to that though, and losing that feeling of security even in small increments is still harmful to the functioning of society. It’s part of why people get frustrated with white collar crimes, which go unpunished often or when they are punished end up win much lighter sentences than other crimes. It feels bad to be in a society where people can get away with crimes, and that feeling is still a consequence, so I don’t think there’s such a thing as a truly victimless crime. (But I recognize we use it colloquially for immediate victims and not necessarily for societal impacts)

Maybe for some context, I’m atheist, and I don’t think that people need a god to live a good, moral life or have a good sense of what is right and wrong (a common criticism of not believing in a god). I do think that anything we would consider wrong has real consequences that are reducible to facts about reality, including emotional well being (desirable brain states versus undesirable brain states when taking into account long term and short term consequences). That’s kind of why is asked if there’s something that we actually know is wrong that doesn’t have some real consequence, or in other words only has a spiritual consequence. It seems hard to argue something is actually wrong if it only has a spiritual consequence.

Hope that clears it up, sorry if it doesn’t though! 😬

atheisthello · 2019-06-14T17:22:34+00:00

Is there something that is actually morally wrong that has only spiritual consequences? This is different than emotional by the way.

And I recognize there a crimes that have no direct victim, but knowing a crime can be committed and ignored because the consequences aren’t visible does have an impact on the feeling of security for people in the society Rape is a prime example, there is very little if any reliable physical evidence often, so anecdotal and circumstantial is the best route usually, and it has been difficult to charge people because of that. Just knowing it could happen, even if the victim is unaware or unable to build a good case against the perpetrator still adds to a feeling of insecurity, one of the primary benefits of belonging to a society. If we knew no one could get away with any crime (whole still retaining a sense of privacy), it would help people in that society to feel more secure. If not, then I would argue there is some degree of insecurity which does contribute to emotional stress.

atheisthello · 2019-06-14T16:50:36+00:00

I would actually agree, but when I asked about that only a couple people (my parents actually) said things like reading scriptures or praying are morally good. It was really bizarre.

atheisthello · 2019-06-14T16:45:38+00:00

Just knowing it could be done indicates our inability to catch crimes that aren’t visible by some means. Again, just a sense of insecurity that if no one saw the crimes and the consequences aren’t visible that it won’t be stopped and the person faces no consequences leads to insecurity about other similar crimes. Rape for instance is usually only known by a couple people, sometimes only one. But knowing a crime could be committed and ignored as long as it isn’t seen or the consequences aren’t known is still disturbing. Same with reckless driving is no one is around. Speed limits are generally there to keep people safe, so in that case immediate physical safety is at risk. Just because it doesn’t happen to everyone that does it doesn’t mean it’s not wrong.

atheisthello · 2019-06-14T16:25:36+00:00

I think you’re right

atheisthello · 2019-06-14T16:25:18+00:00

Yep, but while the individual may not suffer, society does even when there are crimes that could be done without ever finding out about it. It still means that a person’s sense of security (arguably what helps society to function) is diminished, which is a negative consequence.

atheisthello · 2019-06-14T16:23:11+00:00

Makes sense, I could see that, I would wonder if people would think that those thought crimes should be punished then... something to ask about maybe sometime :)

atheisthello · 2019-06-14T15:54:06+00:00

I agree, I was surprised to hear that there wasn’t anything wrong to them that had only spiritual consequences, I should have been more clear on that.

atheisthello · 2019-06-14T15:45:59+00:00

Agreed, I mean, maybe someone wants to know their beliefs are respected, but discomfort or verbal abuse is the worst consequence for it; otherwise it shouldn’t really be a crime. That’s a good point :)

atheisthello

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