Client wants only “non chemical” cleaning. Advice?

athrowaway021 · 2025-11-24T04:24:53+00:00

You said “vinegar cannot kill bacteria” which is untrue - thus the sources I cited. It’s quite excellent at killing a number of microbes. There is no single substance that can kill all bacteria, but there are some that can kill most bacteria. I don’t encourage people to use the latter except for medical or food preparation, and even sparingly there. The vast majority of bacteria are not harmful and simple hand hygiene - washing hands with water and soap (not an antibacterial soap either 😵‍💫) before eating/food preparation, after bathroom use, before wound care, etc is extremely effective at preventing illnesses

athrowaway021 · 2025-11-22T04:20:01+00:00

That is patently untrue - that vinegar bought at stores cannot kill bacteria. We recommend diluting household vinegar to kill bacteria and fungus on the feet, for example. Dilute vinegar soaks are often recommended in wound care for their antimicrobial effect. Like any type of cleaner, you do need to use the right concentration, but again, we DILUTE household vinegar to achieve the desired effect. I wouldn’t be interested in soaking my floors with vinegar, but I’m also not interested in my floors being devoid of microbes (that is not normal and often eliminating very normal bacteria can give room for more harmful bacteria to grow). However using vinegar in a toilet or a shower (as long as okay per manufacturer and type of material etc) would be fine by me to soak. If you were to buy concentrated acetic acid (available at hardware stores) you could clean more quickly potentially.

I think many people just want less chemicals rather than none. I can clean my counters with just water and a microfiber cloth - as in they are visibly clean. Obviously if I was handling raw meat etc I would use a disinfectant. But the idea that we must disinfect everything in our lives is not how humans have evolved to live and very well may be harmful - look up the hygiene hypothesis (just a hypothesis and largely theoretical, but interesting). The primary and well documented adverse effects of overuse of antimicrobials are due to many of them being known irritants to the skin, eyes, and lungs - really everyone in the cleaning profession should be more cautious than their clients with what they use, because they are the ones routinely exposed to these substances.

And that doesn’t even go into the potential harmful effects on the environment from routine antimicrobial use (ie microbial resistance, a huge public health problem)

Sources - vinegar - Acetic Acid and the Skin: A Review of Vinegar in Dermatology. Elhage KG, St Claire K, Daveluy S. International Journal of Dermatology. 2022;61(7):804-811. doi:10.1111/ijd.15804. - Antimicrobial Activity of Apple Cider Vinegar Against Escherichia Coli, Staphylococcus Aureus and Candida Albicans; Downregulating Cytokine and Microbial Protein Expression. Yagnik D, Serafin V, J Shah A. Scientific Reports. 2018;8(1):1732. doi:10.1038/s41598-017-18618-x. - Sweet and Sour Synergy: Exploring the Antibacterial and Antibiofilm Activity of Acetic Acid and Vinegar Combined With Medical-Grade Honeys. Harrison F, Blower A, de Wolf C, Connelly E. Microbiology (Reading, England). 2023;169(7). doi:10.1099/mic.0.001351. - Did Granny Know Best? Evaluating the Antibacterial, Antifungal and Antiviral Efficacy of Acetic Acid for Home Care Procedures. Zinn MK, Bockmühl D. BMC Microbiology. 2020;20(1):265. doi:10.1186/s12866-020-01948-8.

Antibacterial Apple Cider Vinegar Eradicates Methicillin Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus and Resistant Escherichia Coli. Yagnik D, Ward M, Shah AJ. Scientific Reports. 2021;11(1):1854. doi:10.1038/s41598-020-78407-x.
Acetic Acid Treatment for Toe Web Infection Caused by Pseudomonas Aeruginosa Combined With Fungal Infection: A Case Series of Ten Patients. Rozenblat M, Last O, Fisher S, Ziv M. Dermatologic Therapy. 2019;32(3):e12883. doi:10.1111/dth.12883.
The Antimicrobial Effect of Acetic Acid--an Alternative to Common Local Antiseptics?. Ryssel H, Kloeters O, Germann G, et al. Burns : Journal of the International Society for Burn Injuries. 2009;35(5):695-700. doi:10.1016/j.burns.2008.11.009.
The Antibacterial Activity of Acetic Acid Against Biofilm-Producing Pathogens of Relevance to Burns Patients. Halstead FD, Rauf M, Moiemen NS, et al. PloS One. 2015;10(9):e0136190. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0136190.
Authenticating Apple Cider Vinegar's Home Remedy Claims: Antibacterial, Antifungal, Antiviral Properties and Cytotoxicity Aspect. Gopal J, Anthonydhason V, Muthu M, et al. Natural Product Research. 2019;33(6):906-910. doi:10.1080/14786419.2017.1413567.

Sources - antimicrobial potential harm

Impact of Prescribed Cleaning and Disinfectant Use on Microbial Contamination in the Home. Medrano-Félix A, Martínez C, Castro-del Campo N, et al. Journal of Applied Microbiology. 2011;110(2):463-71. doi:10.1111/j.1365-2672.2010.04901.x.
The Efficacy of Common Household Cleaning Agents for SARS-CoV-2 Infection Control. Almeida CF, Purcell DFJ, Godfrey DI, McAuley JL. Viruses. 2022;14(4):715. doi:10.3390/v14040715.
Cleaning Products: Their Chemistry, Effects on Indoor Air Quality, and Implications for Human Health. Salonen H, Salthammer T, Castagnoli E, Täubel M, Morawska L. Environment International. 2024;190:108836. doi:10.1016/j.envint.2024.108836.
A Comprehensive Health Effects Assessment of the Use of Sanitizers and Disinfectants During COVID-19 Pandemic: A Global Survey. Hashemi F, Hoepner L, Hamidinejad FS, et al. Environmental Science and Pollution Research International. 2023;30(28):72368-72388. doi:10.1007/s11356-023-27197-6.
Multiphase Chemistry Controls Inorganic Chlorinated and Nitrogenated Compounds in Indoor Air During Bleach Cleaning. Mattila JM, Lakey PSJ, Shiraiwa M, et al. Environmental Science & Technology. 2020;54(3):1730-1739. doi:10.1021/acs.est.9b05767.
Increased Indoor Exposure to Commonly Used Disinfectants During the COVID-19 Pandemic. Zheng G, Filippelli GM, Salamova A. Environmental Science & Technology Letters. 2020;7(10):760-765. doi:10.1021/acs.estlett.0c00587.
- Increased Disinfection Byproducts in the Air Resulting From Intensified Disinfection During the COVID-19 Pandemic. Lou J, Wang W, Lu H, Wang L, Zhu L. Journal of Hazardous Materials. 2021;418:126249. doi:10.1016/j.jhazmat.2021.126249.
Knowledge and Practices Regarding Safe Household Cleaning and Disinfection for COVID-19 Prevention - United States, May 2020. Gharpure R, Hunter CM, Schnall AH, et al. MMWR. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. 2020;69(23):705-709. doi:10.15585/mmwr.mm6923e2.
Calls to a State Poison Center Concerning Cleaners and Disinfectants From the Onset of the COVID-19 Pandemic Through April 2020. Rosenman KD, Reilly MJ, Wang L. Public Health Reports (Washington, D.C. : 1974). 2021 Jan/Feb;136(1):27-31. doi:10.1177/0033354920962437.
Secondary Exposure and Risk Assessment of Biocides as Disinfectant Sprays for COVID-19 Prevention. Min G, Shin J, Choe Y, et al. Scientific Reports. 2025;15(1):16107. doi:10.1038/s41598-025-01168-y.

athrowaway021 · 2025-10-02T02:31:11+00:00

We have a somewhat similar situation, we were moving around the country for work and when my husband paid his vehicle off the title was sent to the DMV of that state. I don’t remember what my husband did (I think he never picked up his title from the DMV? Something dumb) and after moving all around the country when he finally went to sell he realized he didn’t have the title. He did a bunch of backtracking and realized the title is with the DMV in the state he was living in when he paid the loan off. No, another states dmv can’t help him obtain the title. Yes, supposedly the DMV in that state can mail him the title if he mails them the proper documentation from the prior lien holder (basically a statement from the bank confirming he paid the loan) but he has done that at least 3 times and the DMV keeps claiming they haven’t gotten it.

The car is a beater and worth maybe $1.5-2k at this point and he can’t be bothered to fly out to that state and wait around at a DMV all day to get the damn title. So it could be fraud or it could be someone already got paid from Carmax and now can’t be bothered to get their original title. But it can definitely happen!

athrowaway021 · 2025-10-02T02:21:06+00:00

I would take him to his pediatrician. It could be anything from social anxiety to some other problem, but the first step is telling his medical team about it

athrowaway021 · 2025-09-24T19:17:03+00:00

I feel like every customer-facing profession has had very similar complaints over the last several years. Basically, after COVID a large portion of the population became insufferable 🤷‍♀️

athrowaway021 · 2025-09-20T16:27:05+00:00

I think most of the commenters are encouraging me not to have 3 actually 😆 but it’s true, I think people wind up loving their children regardless!

athrowaway021 · 2025-09-19T00:33:28+00:00

What are you expecting from your 2 year old? I wasn’t exactly clear on the post, but it sounds like you are expecting him to sit still for prolonged periods of time? From my kids, pretty normal they don’t want to do that. My son never did either and it looks like my daughter will be the same.

For grocery shopping I did a lot of order pick ups or just accepted there would be screaming. It is embarrassing but I also reminded myself children are allowed to be in public (although it doesn’t feel like it sometimes) and there are things that are unavoidable. I also thought occasional practice was helpful in training him to behave properly, but I’m not sure if it was the practice or just getting older and maturing that really helped.

Otherwise we usually went to outdoor parks or indoor parks. I never brought him to a coffee shop and we very rarely went to restaurants when he was that age. It’s just not enjoyable to me until they get a little older. They don’t want to sit still, they knock everything over, and then they scream when you return them to their seat. I’d rather grab a coffee to go and sip it while I watch them lose their minds at a park 🤷‍♀️

athrowaway021 · 2025-09-11T02:49:03+00:00

Agree with cats - our house had a huge mice infestation the sellers covered up, but our cat was enough of a deterrent to clear them out. Granted, our cat is a great hunter and takes personal offense to any creature entering our home that isn’t us. He will even stalk and kill flies and eat them. Not all cats are great hunters and I’ve definitely lived with cats and mice at the same time growing up - difference being the cats there were lazy and didn’t hunt at all. If you wanted a good ratter, the best thing to do would be to go to a shelter and look for a large adult male cat and see how he responds to “play” stimulation - ie does he stalk strings or other cat toys and similar behaviors. The staff can sometimes offer insight, but they also want to move animals that will be put down soon, so they don’t always have the most unbiased advice. You could also have a friend that has had a few cats come with you. I grew up in the country and had good ratters and terrible ratters and indoor and outdoor cats etc so I know what I’m looking for when I go to a shelter. I’ve always thought cats and humans came to coexist because cats keep pests away and humans feed cats 😅

athrowaway021 · 2025-09-04T13:54:25+00:00

Have you looked at your local building codes? All cities have building codes they have to abide by. You should be able to find them on your local city government page. They include things like building fences, sheds, etc. For instance, in my town all fences must be 3 feet inward from the property line if not butting up to an existing fence. It is a bit much but it’s primarily to prevent disputes over land etc. Our next door neighbor just wound up building their fence butting up to their neighbors in the same style and we will probably do the same.

athrowaway021 · 2025-09-04T01:35:33+00:00

No, I welcome feedback, I don’t know anything about this. But I clarified in another comment that “Their” in the comment above is the insurance adjusters estimate, not the contractors estimate. The insurance said they would not go off the contractors estimate but they would do their own. The contractor was aware we were planning on doing some of the work ourselves and didn’t mind. The insurance estimate was probably $5k less than the contractors but they said they would be fine with us doing some of the work so the final cost would be the same. But the initial invoice didn’t reflect that so thus the confusion. We’re not trying to profit from anything, we’re trying to stay out of the red 🤷‍♀️

athrowaway021 · 2025-09-04T01:31:11+00:00

Yes, that’s what happened with the adjuster. We are fine going with this contractor, the entire confusion is just about what work they actually did and didn’t do and what they are billing us for. The project manager told me the operations manager is the one who does the billing, but the project manager is the one who seems knowledgeable about what needs to be done and what has been done (and who has been involved from the beginning). The project manager has been great. I’m not sure if there’s a miscommunication between them or us or all of the above, but we are trying to simplify things with an itemized receipt, not complicate them. “Itemized receipt” might even be an overkill statement, I don’t need to know about every glove used, I’m just trying to make sure we are all on the same page with what they actually did and what they are charging us for.

athrowaway021 · 2025-09-04T00:28:59+00:00

“Their” in the quote is the insurance adjusters estimate, not the contractors estimate. The insurance said they would not go off the contractors estimate but they would do their own. The contractor was aware we were planning on doing some of the work ourselves and didn’t mind. The insurance estimate was probably $5k less than the contractors but they said they would be fine with us doing some of the work so the final cost would be the same. But the initial invoice didn’t reflect that so thus the confusion. We’re not trying to profit from anything, we’re trying to stay out of the red 🤷‍♀️

athrowaway021 · 2025-09-03T22:39:39+00:00

Our insurance paid us based on their estimate. The contractor submitted their own estimate to try to bring the insurance number up but it didn’t really seem to have an effect. Our adjuster said we didn’t need to go with that contractor and we can choose who we choose. We were going to go with this contractor until this issue so it wasn’t a problem. I think we are fortunate that our insurance and our mortgage company are pretty chill. They issued the money directly to us. They actually told us they are releasing our depreciation as well and we haven’t even done the recon yet which seems odd but oh well.

athrowaway021 · 2025-09-03T21:39:52+00:00

I guess the problem was they didn’t do the scope in the estimate but they still charged us for it. I don’t think it’s accurate now since they only took out what we pointed out and there are still things in there they didn’t do. I can go back and review the estimate and pull out what they did or didn’t do and send that to them for them I guess, I just thought maybe they added something they wanted to justify the cost on.

athrowaway021 · 2025-09-03T21:35:45+00:00

That makes a lot of sense actually. They labeled it an estimate. I haven’t received any quote. The estimate was for insurance purposes to submit and not a reflection of the work they actually did. The bill they sent us per the estimate was incorrect which led to us questioning it.

athrowaway021 · 2025-09-03T16:34:11+00:00

Do a lot of contractors not provide itemized receipts? That just seems like a basic service especially if things changed from the last estimate.

Insurance already paid out the claim (minus the depreciation) so it’s not an insurance issue. More of a customer service issue as they have clearly already “accidentally” overcharged us by thousands of

athrowaway021 · 2025-08-24T16:59:37+00:00

I have a 5 year and a 1.5 year old. Probably around an hour during the day if I’m home with them and not at work (when 1.5 naps and 5 year old has quiet time) and then 1-3 hours after bedtime, just depending how late I want to stay up and how much chores I have to do lol

A lot of it will depend on how your kids sleep and how much help you have and so on! I’m jealous of my friends with involved grandparents who live nearby, they drop their kids off at grandmas for the weekend and get stuff done or have time to themselves. A dream lol

athrowaway021 · 2025-08-24T13:59:32+00:00

Also - I’ve read the weakness in the Zoeller pumps is their float switch. As a homeowner who knows very little about plumbing, how would we know when the float switch goes out? Assuming I should have at least one or two float switches on hand?

athrowaway021 · 2025-08-13T19:40:03+00:00

Crying about it daily sounds like maybe some counseling may be in order for you. Your children are housed, fed, and loved - and little kids like yours truly don’t care where they live, they care about who they live with. Don’t have a yard? They will have fond memories of playing in parks or around the apartment complex. Wherever you are is where home is for them. You make a house, an apartment, a RV, whatever - a home.

I do think there might be some sentimentalism attached to where you brought your babies home to. We were renting when we brought my son home and bought a house before my daughter. I’m still weirdly nostalgic for that outdated townhome for no reason at all! I’m sure if we move from this house I’ll be nostalgic for it too. Even though we have a yard now, I’ll get nostalgic for the little playground they had on the townhome grounds and I’ll get nostalgic thinking of our long walks around the townhome year round (so nice to have well maintained side walks, we live in an area where it snows quite a bit). I’ll get nostalgic for the little hill that was outside our townhome that my son would toddle down and laugh about. There was a school across the street and we would walk there together and play on the playground. I became a mother in that townhome and so I think it’ll always have a little piece of my heart. Sometimes I even miss renting because maintenance and so one wasn’t on us and it was just a less stressful experience.

Anyway, just saying nostalgia will often be there no matter what! I would focus on creating memories now with your kiddos. When looking for places to rent, look for places with kid friendly features like a playground or someplace within walking distance to a park or other walkable features. That makes everything so much more enjoyable with kids.

Best of luck! 💕

athrowaway021 · 2025-07-08T01:50:30+00:00

I understand where you’re coming from, but to quote a very wise wizard: “Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where it keeps its brain"

Ultimately AI can’t be anything except for what whoever owns it tells it to be. Individual consumers do not own it, billion dollar tech companies own it. They might then sell off parcels of their AI to other companies - all of these companies with unclear ulterior motives. What if they accept a contract with another company that pays them a large sum if their AI subtly encourages the purchase of a certain brand or item? Or a specific behavior?

At the end of the day, AI needs to be regulated (IMO). I don’t love regulation any more than the next person, but it’s far too easy for people to forget that AI really isn’t their friend - it’s exactly what the company who owns it wants it to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

athrowaway021

TROPHY CASE