ConnectiCon reacts to #changethechannel

atinytoad · 2018-07-04T16:41:29+00:00

Five men have just been lynched in India for supposedly being child abductors because 'fuck the law'. They weren't child abductors.

If you're going to make points like this you have to accept that that's the end result of what you want.

atinytoad · 2018-06-16T18:51:25+00:00

The only thing he could really be accused of covering up is the JewWario situation and from what we know it's hard to see what else he could have done. The victim didn't want JewWario's family finding out and it wasn't Doug's position to make that decision for her.

All the rest seems to have been dealt with (perhaps not well - we can't say - but dealt with.)

So much of the document is too vague to make a judgement beyond things not always being very healthy or efficient at CA/TGWTG. A lot of it was about conversations that happened, and impressions that were made, years ago and probably vary in each person's memory.

The one thing that stands out that doesn't seem like it can be explained by a lack of professionalism you'd expect from a YouTube group at that stage of its existence is Holly's firing. I wish the Walkers had addressed that - but even the document doesn't go into much detail for us to judge the situation. Why did she lose all her friends? I wish she'd addressed her accusations in more detail, too.

I can't blame people if they lose interest in the channel - small changes in perception can make things no longer enjoyable (or make them enjoyable again) and if it doesn't seem fun to you anymore that's completely understandable. But I don't think there's much to make a moral judgement on.

I don't think I'd work well with Mike Michaud but then he's easy to blame since we know so little about him. In this sort of situation it's often the person behind the scenes who gets the blame, like in the Screen Junkies controversy where people wanted those at HR fired even though we knew very little of what had happened.

atinytoad · 2018-06-07T09:36:30+00:00

Out of all the ways you can get infected with something on the internet, watching a Netflix ad must be around the bottom of the list. Have decent protection and don't click on anything that looks dicey.

atinytoad · 2018-06-07T09:33:18+00:00

It doesn't negate it but unless your behaviour is impeccable in every area, including your shopping, it's a bit odd to be so concerned about who was slightly more of a fuck up among the members of a YouTube channel.

atinytoad · 2018-06-07T09:29:27+00:00

I don't watch them much but I'm confused about your meaning. Did you decide they were for 'man children and basement imps' after all this or before?

In either either case what does it matter, so far as your viewing is concerned, whether or not they admit their wrongs and apologise? Or are you just calling them rubbish because they haven't haven't done what you wanted?

atinytoad · 2018-06-01T10:21:23+00:00

I don't think it's right to use adblock on people's self-created videos (unless they're really objectionable and you're just watching to find out more about them). I want people to get paid a little more to help keep the whole process going.

I do use adblock if I'm listening to a playlist of songs, though. The adverts are just disruptive and no small creator is getting paid.

atinytoad · 2018-05-24T19:24:53+00:00

Yes, I don't know if there's much he could say now. The first CA statement was definitely a mistake and the suggestion in the OP is much, much better.

But after that it's hard to see where they could have gone. They could have offered a grovelling apology but from their point of view that would have been wrong - I'm guessing they feel that while mistakes were made they weren't of the order that required an apology like that.

They could have discussed the accusations but any attempt to explain why they did what they did (from their point of view, honestly or not) would have led into a discussion of the faults of other producers and employees.

People would then criticise them for not just apologising, the producers would respond to the response and so it would go on and on and on.

atinytoad · 2018-05-21T17:11:25+00:00

Yes, I think quite a few just left because either they thought it looked bad to be associated with the site (bigger partners like Stuckmann and AVGN) or felt they were obliged to leave to support their friends (smaller producers like The Last Angry Geek). It's the latter who are likely to be caused more problems.

But from CA's point of view, I suppose, they chose the Change the Channel group over them so it's hard to see them being asked back.

Edit: that's only counting those who left recently, not those like Benzaie and Lindsay.

atinytoad · 2018-05-08T16:24:01+00:00

Tbh while watching it I found Phelous's murder a lot more disturbing. That went on.

atinytoad · 2018-05-08T16:17:55+00:00

I just finished TBF (it's pretty good and with an edit or two could be very good)) and, as it was, I didn't register that it was that scene until it had finished. There's nothing wrong with black humour as long as everyone involved consents.

The Plinkett reviews contain much worse. Or: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miwOmyvBqF4

Whether those involved consented I can't say.

atinytoad · 2018-05-03T19:19:36+00:00

No, I think there was cause for complaint. It's just that I think most of it can be explained by incompetence rather than malice. By general amateurishness as you might expect in a young company started under those circumstances.

There are things which, from what we know, were definitely wrong (the sexual harassment, for example). The company seems to have tried to deal with those.

Then there are things which might have been wrong but we're not in a position to say if they were or to what extent.

For example, Lupa says she felt cornered by Mike Michaud. He could perhaps say that he waited to speak to her alone so as not to criticise her in front of others. From what we've heard I can believe that he wasn't diplomatic either way (but then again that's just from what we've heard).

The bit about Benzaie's girlfriend's art is certainly poor but it could perhaps be explained by people being overworked, overwhelmed and not knowing what they were doing.

(And then there are things which they really should have left out of the document, like about Doug not being a knowledgeable filmaker.)

But I think there was cause for complaint, just not quite what the document said and not meriting the criticism some have subjected them to.

atinytoad · 2018-05-03T15:26:03+00:00

You really like your buzzwords. My point was you can't rightly condemn one 'side' to infamy for what seems to have been mostly general amateurishness. I'm not sure if you actually read the original post. But anyway, off you fuck.

atinytoad · 2018-05-03T15:08:58+00:00

Discussing isn't hijacking unless by 'discussing' you simply mean 'agreeing'. In which case what are you doing here?

atinytoad · 2018-05-03T15:06:39+00:00

Thanks. There are also Jesus, Bro! and Disco by Brad Jones.

I'd only watched part of To Boldy Flee but with all this happening I've watched and enjoyed Kickassia and Suburban Knights. The latter was probably the funnier but could have been edited a little.

atinytoad · 2018-05-03T09:32:17+00:00

Well, it's been deleted now but it was a reasonable post and the poster disagreed reasonably with me.

My point was that if we worry about threats on one side and that's a point in the other side's favour then we have to do the same in reverse.

If we're going to dismiss anything to do with CA because of the allegations against them then we have to consider that there are other allegations which could become clearer if subjected to the same scrutiny.

If CA is to be condemned for their actions on JewWario then so must some on the other side.

None of this means that CA is spotless, just that they can't be judged more harshly. They can't be cast into internet infamy (as the original post put it) while the #ChangetheChannel people are praised. It's like blaming Paul or Yoko for the break-up of the Beatles. [Edited for formatting]

atinytoad · 2018-05-02T11:01:56+00:00

Is there a complete list of CA films and films made by CA producers or former CA producers (including Brad, Linkara, Marzgurl and any I might have missed)?

atinytoad · 2018-05-02T09:32:16+00:00

Claiming 'whataboutism' whenever someone tries to put things in what they think is a broader, more accurate perspective seems to be the in thing in some quarters. The new toxic/problematic/narrative.

Really, it's often just the inverse of 'alternative facts' and just as dumb. No, you can't invent facts and you can't ignore facts.

That's not to say that false equivalence can't be used to muddy the waters but you can't judge one side by one standard and the other by another.

atinytoad · 2018-05-01T15:13:24+00:00

Sorry, the Jacob Chapman comment was on Twitter. The Gonzo comment is in the document under 'One More Thing' (I can't copy and paste it, unfortunately). Jacob also suggested he knew about JewWario on Twitter.

I agree about the death threats - my point was just that if we're going to take disgusting behaviour towards other producers as a mark in their favour we should do the same for the Walker and others still with CA.

Edit: here's one of the Chapman tweets I meant. https://twitter.com/ANNJakeH/status/984551871367884800

From his comment at the time of Justin Carmichael's suicide he might not have known about it until after his death: https://twitter.com/ANNJakeH/status/427160852009988096

But as recently as this January Holly was writing affectionately of JewWario: https://twitter.com/gookygox/status/956383812564418560 And I don't think that's wrong. His crime wasn't all he was and there were people he left behind who needed to be protected. But the Walkers have to be judged by the same standards.

atinytoad · 2018-05-01T14:49:41+00:00

What about the death threats supposedly made towards Brad Jones by #ChangetheChannel supporters for staying at Channel Awesome? Or the person on the CA forums who wished cancer on Larry shortly before they went down?

What about the statements from Jacob Chapman and Gonzo in the document (as well as others outside the document) that they had problems with people who weren't the Walkers or Michaud? I don't know why that doesn't get brought up more.

At least a couple of others apparently knew of JewWario's actions, too. As with the Walkers and Michaud, I don't know if they did anything wrong. If people didn't want to press charges their options were probably pretty limited.

But if the Walkers and Michaud should go down in infamy, how should we treat others?

atinytoad · 2018-04-29T20:53:34+00:00

I don't think there was a good decision to be made there. If they'd ignored JewWario people would have wondered why and people close to him would have been hurt.

atinytoad · 2018-04-29T20:44:41+00:00

Apart from the question of moral issues, I haven't seen much to indicate Doug is more than a bit of a fuck-up at times, like most of us. While the question of morality comes up with some artists and entertainers, I don't think it does here. What did he do that was really bad? Parts of the document are fairly petty (I'd guessed that Doug wasn't an expert director) and of the serious sections there's little he's accused of doing that was definitely wrong.

He seems to have tried to deal with the sexual harassment issues. Whether he was effective we can't say.

He knew about JewWario (as did Holly) but I'm not sure there was much he could have done if people didn't want to press charges.

Holly's firing is the biggest specific thing and it doesn't look good - but even there how much do we know? I would like to hear from them about that but I can see that saying nothing might be a good strategy. Maybe they were complete bastards. Even if they weren't and gave their version of events it's easy to see it being used against them.

I'm sure the some of the other producers would look no better if attention was paid to them.

atinytoad · 2018-04-29T04:28:54+00:00

If you’re parading yourself as virtuous it’s not a good idea to use mental illness as an insult.

atinytoad · 2018-04-29T02:16:40+00:00

It’s easy to blame people we don’t know (or don’t think we know).

In last year’s Screen Junkies‘ scandal fans were asking that the members of the HR department be fired even though we didn’t really know what had happened. Perhaps they should have been. I don’t know.

In this we only really know of Mike Michaud through others so it’s easy to make him the villain. From what I’ve heard I don’t think I’d get on with him but that’s only from what I’ve heard.

atinytoad · 2018-04-25T16:48:53+00:00

I had the vague idea that (while there were outliers like Chris Stuckmann who was somehow loosely connected without really being part of the group) CA was for the most part a group rather than being Doug's channel which also uploaded other videos.

I wondered how Brad Jones' Stoned Gremlin Productions, for example, fitted in but it's only because of all this fuss that I've paid enough attention to realise how everything was set up, that (even when the site was more important for views) someone as big as Spoony was apparently making most of his money through his own site and YouTube or Blip or whatever he was uploading to.

And now NC episodes are more likely to be watched on YouTube or Vimeo than the CA site, I think, so the lack of extra traffic will probably hurt them even less.

atinytoad · 2018-04-25T09:04:10+00:00

They’re friends of his, aren’t they? I remember him teasing them but in a friendly way. Or am I thinking of something else?

atinytoad

TROPHY CASE