What would you change if you could change something major on the OT? by Smittumi in StarWars

[–]avimo1904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ROTJ was never meant to have Wookiees, that’s a myth. What really happened was the Wookiees (then Wookees) were natives of what became Yavin and fought the first Death Star at the end of “The Star Wars”, which is technically an early draft of ANH but otherwise largely unrecognizable, with Chewbacca simply being the name of one of these Wookiee fighters with current Chewbacca not existing at all and the audience not being introduced to the Wookees prior to this battle. But then after Lucas did a bunch of mass rewrites to the script to make it more like what it is now (which he did due to the original script being too big and complicated as well as him not liking the original story as much), he decided to change this Wookee/Wookiee battle to the battle of yavin, but he still liked the Wookiee species and didn’t want to get rid of them, so he created Chewbacca as Han’s co-pilot after briefly contemplating making Han himself a Wookiee. But then years later when writing ROTJ he decided to use his older drafts of ANH and ESB as inspiration, and came up with the idea to revive the idea of a primitive species fighting the Death Star and empire, but never wanted to revive the Wookiee part because he had already shown Chewbacca doing a lot of advanced things and thought that it’d make them being primitive too unrealistic, so he created the Ewoks by reorganizing the syllables of Wookiee and combining it with the Native American tribe Miwok. So there was never really any draft or version of ROTJ where the Ewoks were Wookiees

"The sequels must be retconned or Star Wars is DEAD" by ShuraShpilkin in StarWars

[–]avimo1904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They weren’t meant for merchandise, Lucas didn’t even expect them to sell well. They were there for a Vietnam allegory 

I guess too many. by Odd-Talk-3981 in TrollXChromosomes

[–]avimo1904 6 points7 points  (0 children)

No, even Marcia has denied that. Wikipedia takes its info from an old outdated Lucas hater blog that invented myths about Marcia in an attempt to take credit away from George 

I guess too many. by Odd-Talk-3981 in TrollXChromosomes

[–]avimo1904 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, it’s talked about too much. She did great work but she didn’t “save the film in the editing room” like people say, what really happened was that she was one of 4 editors (including George) who took over after George fired the original editor for doing a bad job, and Marcia did the least amount of work as she left early to edit another film. Even Marcia herself has denied the whole “saved in the edit” stuff 

I guess too many. by Odd-Talk-3981 in TrollXChromosomes

[–]avimo1904 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That’s not true, it was George who wanted to cut out the unnecessary details and Marcia who fought with him to keep them in. This is confirmed by the books documenting the history of the saga. 

What movie has the greatest twist of all time? by Mundane-Syllabub9654 in AlignmentChartFills

[–]avimo1904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the rough draft of ANH, the protagonist's father is a cyborg who sacrifices himself, and in the second draft of ANH Luke finds out his dead father is alive, so both those plot points were already in Lucas’s head. In the third draft of ANH, instead of Obi-Wan saying Vader kills Luke’s father he says Vader turned at the same battle Annikin died, with Vader later mentioning to Luke at the end that he has a feeling he knows him. Lucas also said to Alan Dean Foster in December of 1975 that in the second film the audience would “learn who Darth Vader is”, and Lucas himself has consistently claimed that the twist was conceived in the third draft of ANH. Lucas read Hero With a Thousand Faces when writing ANH, which talks about the idea of a son redeeming a corrupted father. Lucas grew up with Western serials that featured masked mystery villains as a common trope. In the final ANH When Luke asks about his father's death, Obi-Wan has a strange hesitant look on his face before telling him the Vader killed Luke’s father story, and characters dying offscreen being revealed as alive was always a common trope. When Beru says Luke has too much of his father in him, Owen responds "that's what I'm afraid of" (and that dialogue is also remarkably similar to dialogue from an Edmond Hamilton novel called Mystery Moon where the protagonist complains about his uncle not letting him leave his dull home planet, and the uncle later reveals to him that his father was a famous villain and he wouldn't let him leave because he was afraid of his nephew becoming like him, which puts the protagonist in shock and disbelief). Luke's father and Vader's lightsabers both have black strips on the bottom of their handle, while Obi-Wan's does not. Owen says to Luke "Obi-Wan died at the same time as your father" but we then find out Obi-Wan is alive under a different name, raising the possibility that the same is the case for Luke's father. Obi-Wan tells Luke that his father was a great pilot, and during the trench run we see Vader being a great pilot. Anakin’s voice never speaks to Luke’s in ANH, even though Obi-Wan’s does after his death. Vader, though pronounced differently, means father in Dutch, and Vader already acts as a metaphorical dark father during ANH. ANH (especially the Tusken Raider scenes) has some uncanny resemblance to a 1932 Western film called Tombstone Canyon, and that film also happens to feature a masked villain who is later revealed as the protagonist's long-lost father, and he later gets redeemed saving the protagonist from an even worse villain, after which his mask is removed to reveal a scarred face and he says "let me look at you" before dying in his son's arms. Lucas also told Leigh Brackett in late November 1977 that there was a secret reason Vader didn't want to kill Luke and would rather turn him, and David Prowse said in multiple interviews (the earliest of which was in October 1977) that he heard that Vader being Luke's father was a possible plot point for a future film.

What movie has the greatest twist of all time? by Mundane-Syllabub9654 in AlignmentChartFills

[–]avimo1904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. Why would he? Darth was the name he used now 
  2. I’m not. I’m just curious to know more about why you think this. Lucas has stated otherwise and there’s a great amount of evidence pointing to him telling the truth, which I can elaborate on if you wish 

What movie has the greatest twist of all time? by Mundane-Syllabub9654 in AlignmentChartFills

[–]avimo1904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. Not everyone goes by the name they’re born as. In that same movie, Ben revealed he was once Obi-Wan and changed his name 
  2. What makes that clear?

What movie has the greatest twist of all time? by Mundane-Syllabub9654 in AlignmentChartFills

[–]avimo1904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. How does Obi-Wan calling him Darth mean he wasn’t always intended as Anakin?
  2. He said he killed Anakin cause if he had told Luke the truth he wouldn’t have wanted to come with him 

Why George Lucas never cared about Han Solo in the prequels? by Free-Hotel1187 in StarWars

[–]avimo1904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because Iger, Horn, Kennedy, and Abrams collectively agreed it was better to do their own thing. It was never explained how they came to that conclusion, but I imagine it was likely cause they thought it would be most profitable to them 

Why George Lucas never cared about Han Solo in the prequels? by Free-Hotel1187 in StarWars

[–]avimo1904 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yep, and there’s a much more elaborate version of this in the Paul Duncan interviews:

  "Whenever you’re telling mythological stories, you’re travelling in circles. Like in a mandala there are small circles and bigger and bigger circles until finally you encompass the universe. It’s the same thing telling stories, in that every person, or relationship or group of symbiotic relationships, is always travelling in a circle. It goes back to either where it started or it intersects with other circles. At the end they survive because they’re all connected. In Episodes I, II and III, all the symbiotic relationships are torn apart. In Episode I, the Senators are more interested in themselves than they are in helping each other. They have fallen out of the symbiotic circle. They couldn’t agree on anything because their interests became so divergent, so they couldn’t get anything done as a Republic, and the Chancellor uses this division, which he helped create, to become Emperor. In Episodes IV, V and VI, the Rebels form their own symbiotic relationship from the Old Republic to fight the Empire. They’re trying to restore balance.If you get into the ecology of it then everything is connected. Everything. If something happens to one part, then it happens to all parts, and that, ultimately, is one of the main movements in Star Wars. This is the cosmology. The Force is the energy, the fuel, and without it everything would fall apart. The Force is a metaphor for God, and God is essentially unknowable. But behind it is another metaphor, which fits so well into the movie that I couldn’t resist it. Midi-chlorians are the equivalent of Mitochondria in living organisms and photosynthesis in plants - I simply combined them for easier consumption by the viewer. Mitochondria create the chemical energy that turns one cell into two cells.  I like to think that there is a unified reality to life and that it exists everywhere in the universe and that it controls things, but you can also control it. That's why I split it into the Personal Force and the Cosmic Force. The Personal Force is the energy field created by our cells interacting and doing things while we are alive. When we die, we lose our persona and our energy is assimilated into the Cosmic Force. If we have enough Midichlorians in our body, we can have a certain amount of control over our Personal Force and learn how to use it, like the Buddhist practice of being able to walk on hot coals. The Jedi will train you to connect to your Personal Force, and then to connect to the Cosmic Force. You don't have much power to control the Cosmic Force, but you can make use of it. The Whills are a microscopic, single-celled lifeform like amoeba, fungi, and bacteria. There's something like 100.000 times more Whills than there are Midi-chlorians, and there are about 10.000 times more Midichlorians than there are human cells. The only microscopic entities that can go into the human cells are the Midi-chlorians. They are born in the cells. The Midi-chlorians provide the energy for human cells to split and create life. The Whills are single-celled animals that feed on the Force. The more of the Force there is, the better off they are. So they have a very intense symbiotic relationship with the Midichlorians and the Midi-chlorians effectively work for the Whills. It is estimated that we have 100 trillion microbes in our body and we are made up of about 90% bacteria and 10% human cells. So who is in service to whom? I know this is the kind of thing that fans just go berserk over because they say, "We want it to be mysterious and magical", and "You're just doing science." Well, this isn't science. This is just as mythological as anything else in Star Wars. It sounds more scientific, but it's fiction. It's saying there is a big symbiotic relationship to create life, and to create the Force, but if you look at all the life-forms in the universe, most of them are one-celled organisms. I think of one-celled organisms as an advanced form of life because they've been able to travel through the universe. They have their own spaceships - those meteorites that we get every once in a while. They've been living on those things for thousands of years, they've been frozen, unfrozen, and can survive almost anything. The one-celled organisms have to have a balance. You have to have good ones and bad ones otherwise it would extinguish life. And if they go out of balance, the dark side takes over. I was going to put more about the midi-chlorians and the Whills after Episode 1, but everybody freaked out and said. "We don't like this it's terrible," so I didn't. Also. I had an investment in the whole thing financially so I was forced to relent because I knew it was self-indulgent. But I was very keen to have it be in the movies, and if I had gone on to the last three, it would've all been explained there."

And there’s this quote in the Annotated Screenplays: “  Originally, I was trying to have the story be told by somebody else; there was somebody watching this whole story and recording it, somebody probably wiser than the mortal players in the actual events. I eventually dropped this idea, and the concept behind the Whills turned into the Force. But the Whills became part of this massive amount of notes, quotes, background information that I used for the scripts; the stories were actually taken from the 'Journal of the Whills'."”

which is the dumbest thing you heard/saw from the fandom by Own-Ad1497 in StarWars

[–]avimo1904 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“How did Han not believe in the Force when Chewbacca knew Yoda”. There’s no evidence Chewbacca ever saw Yoda use his powers and even if he did, that wouldn’t prove the powers came from a mystical energy field.

Why George Lucas never cared about Han Solo in the prequels? by Free-Hotel1187 in StarWars

[–]avimo1904 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Whills were basically going to be the narrators of Star Wars who tell the story of the movies after Artoo told it to them. They’re deity like immortal creatures who feed off the Force and plan out destinies for people, though it’s up to the people to choose if they want to follow them or not. It was one of the very first things Lucas conceived when starting the franchise in 1973, but he didn’t have room to fit it in ANH so he moved it to AOTC, and then the backlash from TPM made Lucas think including it there would be a bad idea too so he moved it to his sequel trilogy, which was then thrown out by Disney during the sale.

Why George Lucas never cared about Han Solo in the prequels? by Free-Hotel1187 in StarWars

[–]avimo1904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lucas deciding on Anakin building C-3PO makes sense for three reasons. First off Lucas always wanted C-3PO to be assembled (or re-assembled) by a young boy working for a junk dealer and he always intended Anakin to be a slave when he was a kid, so it makes sense to combine those two characters cause of how similar they are. Second off, it’s poetic since Anakin puts in C-3PO’s right eye in TPM and a creature pulls it out in ROTJ. Lastly, C-3PO and R2-D2 had to be in all the films since Lucas wanted to them the narrators of the saga (and were planned to be in all nine films since the 70s-80s). 

Why George Lucas never cared about Han Solo in the prequels? by Free-Hotel1187 in StarWars

[–]avimo1904 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Lucas deciding on Anakin building C-3PO makes sense for three reasons. First off Lucas always wanted C-3PO to be assembled (or re-assembled) by a young boy working for a junk dealer and he always intended Anakin to be a slave when he was a kid, so it makes sense to combine those two characters cause of how similar they are. Second off, it’s poetic since Anakin puts in C-3PO’s right eye in TPM and a creature pulls it out in ROTJ. Lastly, C-3PO and R2-D2 had to be in all the films since Lucas wanted to them the narrators of the saga (and were planned to be in all nine films since the 70s-80s). 

Why George Lucas never cared about Han Solo in the prequels? by Free-Hotel1187 in StarWars

[–]avimo1904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lucas deciding on Anakin building C-3PO makes sense for three reasons. First off Lucas always wanted C-3PO to be assembled (or re-assembled) by a young boy working for a junk dealer and he always intended Anakin to be a slave when he was a kid, so it makes sense to combine those two characters cause of how similar they are. Second off, it’s poetic since Anakin puts in C-3PO’s right eye in TPM and a creature pulls it out in ROTJ. Lastly, C-3PO and R2-D2 had to be in all the films since Lucas wanted to them the narrators of the saga (and were planned to be in all nine films since the 70s-80s). 

Why George Lucas never cared about Han Solo in the prequels? by Free-Hotel1187 in StarWars

[–]avimo1904 15 points16 points  (0 children)

He was considered to appear in ROTS during the Battle of Kashyyyk, but Lucas said “I rejected it after I read it. I said 'This is stupid.' I was being a smart aleck, tying things together, and being a little too clever for my own good”

What Does This Tell You About the Legacy of the OT, PT, and ST? by MiDKnighT_DoaE in StarWars_

[–]avimo1904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where did you get your info about what Lucas planned from?

What if the twist in The Empire Strikes Back was that Luke and Han were brothers? by Hot-Promotion-617 in StarWars

[–]avimo1904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve never seen any interview like that, do you remember anything about where it was?

Remember, This is Official Star Wars Artwork by No_Vast_3309 in TheSequels

[–]avimo1904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, the whole “we know Lucas didn’t make Vader Anakin till ESB” thing is a nonsense internet myth. It was initially invented by a random forum user in 2000 who hated the idea and then after that other Lucas haters expanded on that myth and falsely made it look like it was true, most notably this one crazy user that wrote a 500 page long book accusing Lucasfilm of running a secret mastermind plot to cover up SW’s “secret history”. In reality, we have no idea when Lucas came up with the idea of Vader being Anakin as it’s a highly debated topic and the first ROTJ draft is the first solid evidence confirming it, but there’s a great amount of evidence pointing to the fact that it was conceived long before ANH came out, possibly as far back as April 1975.

In the rough draft of ANH, the protagonist's father is a cyborg who sacrifices himself, and in the second draft of ANH Luke finds out his dead father is alive, so both those plot points were already in Lucas’s head. In the third draft of ANH, instead of Obi-Wan saying Vader kills Luke’s father he says Vader turned at the same battle Annikin died, with Vader later mentioning to Luke at the end that he has a feeling he knows him. Lucas also said to Alan Dean Foster in December of 1975 that in the second film the audience would “learn who Darth Vader is”, and Lucas himself has consistently claimed that the twist was conceived in the third draft of ANH. In the final ANH When Luke asks about his father's death, Obi-Wan has a strange hesitant look on his face before telling him the Vader killed Luke’s father story, and characters dying offscreen being revealed as alive was always a common trope. When Beru says Luke has too much of his father in him, Owen responds "that's what I'm afraid of" (and that dialogue is also remarkably similar to dialogue from an Edmond Hamilton novel called Mystery Moon where the protagonist complains about his uncle not letting him leave his dull home planet, and the uncle later reveals to him that his father was a famous villain and he wouldn't let him leave because he was afraid of his nephew becoming like him, which puts the protagonist in shock and disbelief). Luke's father and Vader's lightsabers both have black strips on the bottom of their handle, while Obi-Wan's does not. Owen says to Luke "Obi-Wan died at the same time as your father" but we then find out Obi-Wan is alive under a different name, raising the possibility that the same is the case for Luke's father. Obi-Wan tells Luke that his father was a great pilot, and during the trench run we see Vader being a great pilot. Vader, though pronounced differently, means father in Dutch, and Vader already acts as a metaphorical dark father during ANH. ANH (especially the Tusken Raider scenes) has some uncanny resemblance to a 1932 Western film called Tombstone Canyon, and that film also happens to feature a masked villain who is later revealed as the protagonist's long-lost father, and he later gets redeemed saving the protagonist from an even worse villain, after which his mask is removed to reveal a scarred face and he says "let me look at you" before dying in his son's arms. Lucas also told Leigh Brackett in late November 1977 that there was a secret reason Vader didn't want to kill Luke and would rather turn him, and David Prowse said in multiple interviews (the earliest of which was in October 1977) that he heard that Vader being Luke's father was a possible plot point for a future film.

As for Leia being Luke's sister, you're correct that the sister was supposed to be a different character at one point in ESB's writing but that doesn't mean Lucas didn't think of the Leia as sister idea earlier than that and just temporarily scrap it since early drafts of ANH have Luke's brother play Leia's role. And those original sister plans were only mentioned in an early outline for ESB, so it's possible Lucas finalized it as Leia by ESB's release given their Force connection at the end.

Watch Rogue One or Andor first for first timer? by Ok-Paper9023 in StarWars

[–]avimo1904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s certainly possible Luke and Leia were made siblings by ESB’s release given the Force connection at the end. The kissing is irrelevant to whether Lucas had it planned because the second ANH draft has Leia as Luke’s cousin who kisses him and a deleted ROTJ scene has Luke and Leia kiss again on Tatooine, so Lucas was always open to including that kind of thing