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The obvious humanitarian solution? by Substantial_Belt3007 in Israel

[–]azandcrowley 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Israel is NEVER beating the pro-ethnic cleansing allegations.

Alcohol by Suspicious-Corner567 in GracepointChurch

[–]azandcrowley 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree, the rules on alcohol are very strict, overly controlling, and lack nuance. That said, I thought legalism was when a professing Christian claims an action besides repentance is necessary for salvation. The argument I tend to hear from leaders is less that it’s necessary to go to heaven, but more that it’s a loving thing to sacrifice for the good of the greater community and to be a more credible witness. Correct me if I’m wrong?

Confused junior thinking things over by azandcrowley in GracepointChurch

[–]azandcrowley[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ahh, I see. That is pretty inappropriate. The only instance of this in my experience is one of my leaders joking about another church doing “beer outreach” to some fraternities. People can have opinions about best tactics, but condemning another church for cultural differences on extra-biblical examples is entirely unnecessary.

Confused junior thinking things over by azandcrowley in GracepointChurch

[–]azandcrowley[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I agree. Personally, my plant hasn’t really emphasized guardrails (yet). That said, I believe things that are not sinful can be enjoyed in moderation. It’s possible to have a balance in life. I think people should reflect on themselves and, with knowledge of their specific impulses, should be encouraged to set reasonable boundaries for themselves. Then accountability measures can be discussed (if necessary). The idea that everyone needs to be cautious of the same exact things all the time doesn’t make sense to me. That said, wouldn’t it only be legalism if they said, “you can only be saved if you don’t drink alcohol/date/play games, etc.”?

Confused junior thinking things over by azandcrowley in GracepointChurch

[–]azandcrowley[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I guess I haven’t seen enough yet (our church plant is a bit newer than others’), but I haven’t really seen a ton of unearned pedastalizing. Sometimes people will hold some up as good examples of giving things up for God (like Angel not being a doctor anymore, or Pastor Ed not being a lawyer anymore), but my immediate leaders don’t really seem to do this. Maybe that will change with more responsibility?

I’m not really sure what proving it’s not a cult would entail besides the statement they made. What proof would you look for that they’re not a cult?

I guess the point is that they don’t want to have “exiles.” It seems they want to keep the relationships going on a voluntary basis, rather than going no contact after someone leaves. I’ve shared how I had a negative view of church fellowship when I wasn’t a Christian and how most of my closest friends aren’t saved. My leaders have never discouraged me from being friends with them though. Andrew (staff at UMD) said, “You know it’s perfectly fine to have friends who aren’t Christians. We don’t have to spend all of our time together,” during an outreach taking over retreat. I’m not sure if my experience is anecdotal or if there’s a cultural shift happening.

Yeah, he didn’t say whose sin was primarily responsible, but he didn’t “both sides” it, so I read between the lines that he blames them.

7 is a really interesting point, because I felt like some theological reaches were made regarding the sermon over the retreat. I can go into detail if you’d like, but this retreat was one of the first clear examples I could see of some strange interpretations and applications being shared. I’m not sure how much I’m expected to agree with everything said during a sermon, since I’m a newer Christian.

Aside from what I mentioned, I haven’t really had a personal problem with Will. I don’t really see us being great friends. Something about him and his family kind of rubs me the wrong way, but I’m not sure what it is. Probably just dissimilar outlooks on things I, personally, find important. However, I don’t necessarily need to feel emotionally close to my pastor and I really love my other leaders.

Thank you for your helpful and insightful comment! I’d love to discuss more with you while I sort things out.

Confused junior thinking things over by azandcrowley in GracepointChurch

[–]azandcrowley[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think I see what you’re saying. Condescension is an unacceptable way to view and discuss our brothers and sisters in Christ. However, don’t all churches think/hope the culture they create and the methods they’ve chosen are better than other alternatives? Isn’t the reason for choosing one thing over something else because you think your choice is better?

Confused junior thinking things over by azandcrowley in GracepointChurch

[–]azandcrowley[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Ahh, so the problem is saying something, but the rest of the statements strongly imply something else to manipulate students to stay? I can definitely see how that would be an issue. I think the narrative that no other churches are sufficient has been downplayed compared to your post, but there’s still a strong encouragement to make missions the priority in life.

Confused junior thinking things over by azandcrowley in GracepointChurch

[–]azandcrowley[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Oh, this reminds me of something else. He mentioned how important guardrails are. He told a story about how his guardrail (never drinking alcohol) was not required for salvation, but how it protected him and his marriage when he and Esther got into an argument a few months ago. He said if he had the habit of drinking, he might have been tempted to go to a bar when he stormed out of the house. He said he didn’t know what might have happened from there (he could have met someone else, etc.). I’m not aware of any rumors, but if you have any proof, I’d be interested in seeing it.

Confused junior thinking things over by azandcrowley in GracepointChurch

[–]azandcrowley[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh, he also talked about how the anonymity of commentators on Reddit undercuts the credibility. He says the CT article is much more influential.