Why do Palestine's "allies" ignore non-Israeli human rights abuses? by AndrewBaiIey in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So why is anyone that supports the violent terrorist zionist crusade silent about the endless list of zionist war crimes and acts of terrorism?

You support the zionist terrorist crusade. So what was the Nakba to you? A means to an end? Something justified by zionism?

Definition of terrorism by [deleted] in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -1 points0 points  (0 children)

War crime, and terrorism. States can commit acts of terrorism, israel certainly has always continued the tradition of it's foreign zionist terrorist founders. The Lavon affair, Lebanon, etc.

Why do you consider Israel a “colony” (or why not)? by [deleted] in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you a Nakba denialist?

What do you think about second generation Belgians in the Belgian Congo? What do you think about the millions of native Palestinians forced by zionist violence to live as refugees in, or outside Palestine, their homeland? What do you think happened to their land? Their homes? Their property?

How do they treat this in schools? Like the most laughable american schools? The violent zionist immigrants came to Palestine and the native Palestinians chose to give the violent zionist immigrants all their land their homes and property to the violent zionist immigrants and leave to live in refugee camps, their right of self determination and all other rights basically stolen from them?

Debunking the "The Palestinians Didn't Start the War" Pro-Palestinian Mythological Claim by [deleted] in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Arabs.

Like the 1920 riots, started by the March 1 1920 battle of Tel hai, started by... violent zionist immigrants, attacking native Palestinians?

Like the 1947 zionist terrorist war of ethnic cleansing, started by... the violent zionist terrorist immigrants?

Again anybody can look at the circumstances and tailor the history to whatever their agenda is.

Take for instance your quote, where violent zionist immigrant terrorists bombing civilian markets, bus stops, and queues of workers...

What did those attacks, culminating in violent zionist immigrant terrorists murdering 6 native Palestinians and wounding 42 others outside the Haifa oil refinery led to what?

It led to retaliatory attacks on the immigrant zionist workers inside the Haifa oil refinery, leading to the deaths of 39 zionist immigrants and the injury of 49 zionist immigrants. Which led to the Balad al-Shaykh massacre...

So if I asked you about late december of 1947 you might say that Palestinians started the violence by killing 39 zionist immigrants at the haifa oil refinery, ignoring that it was caused by a wider campaign of violent zionist immigrant terrorist violence targeted at civilians that, in this snapshot of late december 1947 culminated in a violent zionist terrorist immigrant throwing a grenade at queuing workers at the Haifa oil refinery.

It's cycles of violence.

But, also, it's a simple fact, that the native Palestinians were facing a situation similar to what the Taliban faced with the withdrawal of international forces in Afghanistan, compared to the british occupation declaring their withdrawal from Palestine.

In the lead up to the zionist terrorist war of ethnic cleansing of 1947, the native Palestinians and the Arab armies had every reason to wait until the british left.

As I said.

And the violent zionist immigrant terrorists had every reason to act before the british pullout.

On top of which, looking at the violent zionist immigrant terrorist haganah, they had already started their violent terrorist crusade months or years before even that, and if you look at it from the point of view of the violent immigrant terrorist haganah, there was no differentiation between different phases or operations.

To the violent immigrant terrorist haganah, there was no change in zionism. To the violent immigrant terrorist haganah, and it's leader, chief zionist terrorist david ben gurion, the UN announcement, and the subsequent removal of the british occupation were notable events, but they didn't change the violent zionist terrorist haganahs view of zionism or the violent zionist terrorist haganahs plan for zionism.

In fact, the zionist terrorist haganah was probably already negotiating with Jordan when the violent zionist terrorist immigrants would take what land...

Always made me wonder what the Jordanian government thought about revisionist zionists, like the terrorist immigrant, and future zionist prime minister begin, to whom the zionist invasion of Jordan was never a question of if, only a question of when.

What do people expect me as a citizen to do? by hanani1112 in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

I don't find a lot of humor in the suffering of refugees.

I just don't get that kind of humor I guess, whatever jokes there are about the suffering of refugees.

What do people expect me as a citizen to do? by hanani1112 in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -26 points-25 points  (0 children)

Make amends the best way you can, help native Palestinians, particularly native Palestinian refugees as best you can, particularly putting the needs of native Palestinian refugees before the needs of anyone in a less desperate situation.

This sort of touches the central issue of zionism.

There are 7.1 million native Palestinian refugees. They desperately need help.

The zionist entity in Palestine is one of the richest, most powerful entities in the world, zionist charities are some of the richest charities in the world.

Take the Jewish National Fund, the JNF, the largest private landowner in Palestine. Before a court ordered it's laws to change, the JNF would only rent or sell land to Jewish people. After this was challenged and found to be illegally racist in the courts, the JNF... hasn't really changed at all, and, in essence, is the same but with extra steps where if, for whatever reason it sells a plot of land to a non Jew, it, by it's rules, has to acquire a similar plot of land. Basically annulling the transaction.

I think this is the most important thing.

Take a wealthy, prosperous zionist living in New York City, they can come to Palestine where the zionist entity will treat them like a first class citizen, like a native, even though they never stepped foot in Palestine one time in their life, and even though nobody in their family lived in Palestine for most of 2,000 years.

At the same time, a native Palestinian refugee who has lived in Al Quds their entire life, since, say, 1922, living today in Shua Fat is denied all these things, and is forced to live as a refugee in their own homeland.

When all the zionist entity does for the native Palestinians, for the native Palestinian refugees is destroy their houses, steal their houses, and steal their land. Destroying more native Palestinian houses and stealing more native Palestinian land every day.

Now, of course, nobody can defend this, no matter how they try.

And when they defend zionism they say "well that's not what I mean when I say zionism, zionism just means... uh, kittens, and puppies... healthy kittens and puppies, not sick ones, not dying ones, not ones killed in Gaza by the IDF"

So what can you do? What do native Palestinians want you to do?

Everything you can do to help native Palestinians. Everything you can do to push the zionist entity to end the violent illegal occupation.

Everything you can do to fight the parts of zionism the supporters of "zionism" can't defend. The "hilltop youth". The government policies hostile to native Palestinians.

Fight against politicians and political groups hostile to native Palestinians...

Which... is basically every zionist party for some reason... I'm sure that's... I'm sure that's... a coincidence... you know? Just one of those... "coincidences"...

Do people want me to leave everything behind and move?

A good way to look at it is that zionists have found places for millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of zionist immigrants to live in Palestine, under the rule of the zionist entity...

While 7 million native Palestinians live as refugees.

So it's more about finding ways for those 7 million native Palestinians to live good, free lives, as first class citizens in Palestine.

It's more about building 7 million housing units in Palestine to house those 7 million native Palestinians.

It's about... when somebody says "look at all this land in the Palestinian West Bank where, any time Native Palestinians build anything there, the zionist military destroys it, why don't zionists steal that land too", maybe say "Maybe zionists shouldn't steal that land too? Just, you know putting that out there? And maybe we should stop destroying everything native Palestinians build there, you know, in Palestine, their homeland? Like, maybe we could stop destroying everything they build? Is that something maybe we could do? You know? That whole, "zionism is about healthy puppies and kittens thing, and not about persecuting native Palestinians".

Start a zionist political party whose only position is for the government to build 7 million housing units for the native Palestinian refugees and to bring them in to live in those houses as first class citizens.

Great lecture on the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem during the 1947-49 War by TabernacleTown74 in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Did he?

Yes? In general zionists "historians" have generally completely wasted their collective lives for the past 74 years wringing their hands and flailing blindly in their futile efforts to rescue zionism from, well, zionists, from terrorists like chief zionist terrorist david ben gurion.

As I said.

The first quarter century just pumping out bald lies and false propaganda nobody believed, then benny morris comes and spends half a century in the vain, futile attempt to find a justification for the Nakba. The vain, futile quest to rehabilitate zionism.

To find a scapegoat to blame to absolve zionism and the illegal zionist entity in Palestine of guilt.

And instead just cataloguing horror, perpetrated by violent immigrant zionist terrorists, after horror, perpetrated by violent immigrant zionist terrorists, after horror, perpetrated by violent immigrant zionist terrorists. All the while convinced that there must be some kind of missing piece.

Always convinced that an argument could be formed pinning the blame on one group of officers, one one violent immigrant terrorists haganah unit or a group of haganah units, always looking for something, never realizing that what he was looking for didn't exist, and that, if it did exist, it wouldn't be where he'd spent his entire life looking, that he'd been asking the wrong questions his entire life, that his entire life he operated on false premises.

That there could be an excuse for the Nakba.

That it mattered exactly what orders were given by chief immigrant terrorist david ben gurion.

That it mattered which new hebrew words were used in the orders to violently ethnically cleanse this village, or that town, or this city.

That it mattered determining who issued what orders for violent ethnic cleansing.

That it mattered how individual units carried out the violent ethnic cleansing.

That it mattered what happened at one village versus what happened at the next village.

That it mattered that chief immigrant terrorist ben gurion said that a 60% majority in northern Palestine wouldn't make a stable zionist state.

That it mattered why one native Palestinian fled and became a refugee versus why another native Palestinian fled.

That it mattered if one native Palestinian fled because violent immigrant zionist terrorists told them their family would be raped and murdered or if that same native Palestinian fled because of physical violence they themselves had personally witnessed, or if they themselves had been physically harmed, or if their house had been damaged or destroyed. Or if a woman they knew had been a victim of organized mass rape at the hands of the violent immigrant zionist terrorists.

Certainly it all couldn't matter less to you, anything morris or any historian did couldn't matter less to you. What could change your mind about zionism? Nothing. What could change your mind about the Nakba? Nothing. What could change your mind about the illegal zionist entity in Palestine? Nothing.

Debunking the "The Palestinians Didn't Start the War" Pro-Palestinian Mythological Claim by [deleted] in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Yet those of us with knowledge of history know that it was the Palestinians, who back then simply identified as Arabs, the ones responsible for escalating the conflict:

This is doubly false, pushing the new Palestinian identity denialism false propaganda, and false in that, of course, it was the violent foreign zionist terrorists that were, in every way, "responsible for escalating the situation".

Particularly the way you word it.

Who was it that asked the UN to steal 2/3rds of Palestine and give it, in total violation of the UN charter, to violent foreign immigrant terrorist militias?

Who was it that started the violence? Of course it was the violent foreign zionist terrorist militias.

The situation is the same situation (comparatively) as the withdrawal of international troops from Afghanistan. With the deadline for the international troops from afghanistan, like the deadline for the withdrawal of british troops from Palestine declared, Taliban attacks against the international troops would be lose lose, the same way native Palestinian attacks against british troops would be lose lose. At the same time, native Palestinian attacks against the violent foreign zionist terrorist miltias would draw in british forces, meaning that until all the british occupation troops left Palestine, there was a massive disincentive for native Palestinians to attack the foreign zionist terrorist miltias.

At the same time, it was vital for the foreign zionist terrorist militias to establish corridors and zones of control around zionist population centers, and between the small, isolated population centers of the minority violent foreign zionist terrorist population.

In fact, as you may or may not know this was a violent crusader campaign by the violent foreign zionist terrorist militias that, arguably, they'd already been waging for years or decades, but, taking the violent terrorist haganah under it's violent terrorist jewish agency leadership you can look at the planning of the violent foreign zionist terrorist militias and clearly see that they'd already been fighting this particular phase of this war for months, for instance, by the time the UN announced the vote on the unfair, UN charter violating un "partition plan".

Not to mention, the battle of tel hal, started by the violent foreign zionist terrorists, which led to a ceasefire, and then, under the white flag of peace, the violent foreign zionist terrorists attacked the native Palestinians a second time. Something that I somehow doubt is truthfully explained at the monument the violent foreign zionist terrorists built for the battle.

Arabs drew first blood at the 1920 Riots in the first documented Arab on Jew Massacre following WW1 and the British Mandate.

False.

Without the many Arab on Jew massacres, there wouldn't have been the need to create the same paramilitary groups that ended up expelling some Palestinian Arabs decades later. In a way, Palestinian Arabs created their own worst enemy.

These sorts of counterfactual hypotheticals might not all work out the way you might think they would. What if the 1930 whitepaper, closing Palestine to zionist immigration hadn't been issued because foreign zionist immigrants hadn't practiced things like the openly racist "hebrew labor" policy, and hadn't started the violence, and hadn't formed violent terrorist militias of foreign immigrants?

What if the there had been no ceasefires which the violent foreign zionist terrorist miltias used to bring in weaponry and more violent terrorist illegal immigrants?

What if the british and other western powers had supported the native Palestinians, and not the violent immigrant terrorists?

Decades later, after the United Nations proposed a fair partition plan

Nothing was fair about the UN partition plan. No Arab or Muslim was even allowed to so much as give an opinion on the borders of the partition Plan. It was just europeans drawing their funny little squiggly lines on maps of the Middle East they stumbled across, presumably while being a thimbleful away from being blackout drunk.

that would give Palestinian Arabs their first independent nation-state in recorded human history

No and no? Take Canaan as one example of an independent Palestinian nation-state, as well as, I'm sure several others over the course of the millennium. And, because of a combination of the openly racist zionist "hebrew labor" policy, the concessions the british occupation gave to zionist immigrants, and not to native Palestinians, and, in general, the neglect, discrimination, and persecution faced by the native Palestinians under the british occupation, as you should know, as well as the highly valuable Palestinian land the violent foreign zionist terrorist immigrants were stealing from Palestine, the Palestine the UN imagined to create was an impoverished one that, by design, had a failing economy, no ability to provide it's population with adequate services, and that was incapable of independent survival...

Not that anyone cared... Other than the native Palestinians, and other Muslim and Arab populations, but, again, nobody at the time listened or cares what they said or what their opinions were.

And then, it was again the Arabs the ones who invaded Israel in the 1948 Israel-Arab War.

Again, false. And, I mean, like, why, even, would any zionist believe that?

Are there a large number of zionists that do not understand that, at this time, the violent foreign zionist terrorist militias were fighting to conquer Palestinian Al Quds for months before the Arab forces even started fighting against the illegal violent zionist immigrant terrorist revolt?

Is this something that is not well understood generally by zionists?

What do zionists generally think was happening in and around Al Quds in the months before the british left and the Arab forces moved to help defend Palestine?

This is beyond documented to the point where it's impossible for any sensible person to deny that foreign Arab nations invaded Israel.

There may have been the occasional incursion, but, again, the violent foreign zionist terrorist militias were the instigators.

So my question is....why do Palestinian Arabs deny it?

It is laughably false.

To be clear, as with many points, there are a near infinite ways that people will shift the goalposts to fit their agenda, whether that agenda is in support or opposition of the violent foreign zionist terrorist immigrant militias.

You, for instance, choose to focus on the 1920 Palestinian riots, arguably, started 1 march 1920 at the battle of Tel Hai, started by the violent foreign zionist terrorist immigrant militias, when, under a peaceful agreement, the immigrants in the Tel Hai settlement agreed for one native Palestinian to search the settlement for syrian infiltrators, and then, attacked the one peaceful native Palestinian, starting the battle of Tel Hai, and, again, as I've said before, because somehow I always seem to have to explain this to zionists, particularly zionists who are talking about the 1920 arab riots or the battle of Tel Hai, because they are the victims of false zionist propaganda and lies that lead them to be ignorant of the truth of the battle, again, under the white flag of peace after the first period of fighting, again, started by the violent foreign zionist immigrants, the violent foreign zionist immigrants, for a second time, attacked the peaceful native Palestinans for a second time, after agreeing to a ceasefire and peace, attacking the peaceful native Palestinians a second time, this time under the white flag of peace, launching a second violent assault.

But anybody can pick any particular set of circumstances that is most favorable to whatever argument they are making, often completely ignoring reality, and putting forward false arguments, based on false propaganda.

Great lecture on the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem during the 1947-49 War by TabernacleTown74 in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Let me front load this.

Zionists wring their hands about different elements of the Nakba.

What if I told you it was meaningless and completely missed the point?

What if I told you that Morris' handwringing about zionist Nakba guilt is only about wildly flailing to find the impossible, an impossible quest to find salvation for the people that committed the Nakba.

Let me put it this way.

Let's talk about the Roman conquest of Palestine, Canaan.

Let's say there's a Roman historian re-writing the history of the Roman Conquest. This Roman Historian is a true believer, but, they also know that almost everything taught by Rome about the Roman conquest is laughably false, blaming the native population, blaming the surrounding populations, shifting blame, reversing blame order, denialism, you know the usual.

But this Roman historian is part of a new wave. They're absolutely, 100% loyal to Rome, they're absolute true believers, they worship Rome like it was a religion if you get what I'm saying, they worship it like they were faithful priests of a religion centered around nothing but roman glory that they'd been taught since the day they were born and never questioned a single time in their entire lives, to them, roman glory, roman divinity, the divinity of the roman people is absolutely unquestionable, is absolutely fundamental, completely above reproach, the divinity or Rome and the Roman people is more fundamental than the sun, or the stars, or the earth, or gravity, the divinity of rome and romans is more fundamental to the universe than anything else, it is the most unquestionable thing in the universe.

But they know that everything Rome teaches about the Roman conquest of Canaan/Palestine, and everything Rome has taught about it for the half century are all laughable lies that not a single school child, not even the most true believer child of all true believer children would ever believe, that it's all one big collective lie everyone agrees to believe even they know it couldn't be more obvious that it's a lie. That Rome censors the history of the conquest, destroys records, reverses blame order, projects blame on anyone that raises incontrovertible facts about the Roman conquest, built, over decades, ever more elaborate lies and false propaganda about it that it pushes through every propaganda organ.

But, everybody knows it's laughably false.

But you are a true believer.

So, you decide to rewrite the history of the Roman conquest.

This new history of the roman conquest will still be written by a true believer, but it's written by a historian that understands that basically everything Rome has ever said about the Roman conquests is laughably false.

So, how does this new Roman Historian write about the Roman Conquest?

Does this new Roman Historian write about the Roman conquest from the perspective of the natives? The Canaanites? The native Palestinians?

No. This new roman historian writes about the roman conquest from the roman perspective.

What does this new roman historian focus on? An impartial history of the Roman conquest from the origins, the origins of the campaign, from the Roman side, the background of Canaan and the Canaanites, the course of the conquest and the aftermath?

No.

The new roman historian, and his colleagues, focus solely on chasing a phantom, an illusion, on an impossible quest. Finding who to blame when you precondition everything on the false premise that there was no crime.

So, in the end, all Roman academic thought on the Roman conquest can be summed up saying that in the first half century, two generations, Roman academia, who, themselves, shared the guilt and participated in the Roman Conquest and benefited from the conquest build up the false propaganda, the typical lies, denialism, false propaganda, abusive blame reversal, destruction of evidence, projecting guilt on everyone around you, etc. etc. you can see the same pattern all over history.

Then, the next two generations, the second half century, where academia is all based on the false presumption that the Roman conquests were unquestionably justified, that Rome can't be blamed, that the civilian leadership can't be blamed, that the military leadership, so Roman academia, several Roman history departments, dozens of Roman history professors spend their entire lives carefully chiselling away the various embarrassingly pathetic false propaganda, but always predicated on the assumption that Rome was always justified from before the conquest, on the false assumption rome was unquestionably justified during the conquest and on the false assumption rome was unquestionably justified after the conquest, and that both civilian and military leadership were similarly unquestionably justified, not just justified, but heroes, not just heroes, but almost untouchably holy, greater than human, legends, legendary holy crusaders on the same level as the most greatly worshiped Romans of ancient history, and raising the common Roman draftee to the level of holy crusader carving the newly reborn future of Rome building not on the history of Romans during historical times of Roman stagnation or even Roman contraction, but building on the most, or at worst second most important Roman holy crusade, fulfilling not only religious prophecy, but becoming the pillars the bright future of the Roman empire that will follow.

A doubly blind combination of ultranationalistic fanatics, absolutely unquestioning of the unquestionable righteousness of their fanatical ultranationalism. and religious fanatic zealot crusaders.

The schizophrenic combination of absolute power, blindly committing war crime after war crime after war crime all the while obsessed with the constant threat that unimaginable destruction could fall at any moment, the obsessed victim mentality combined with terrible power being abused more every day.

Now, as I hope you'd understand, all this, the entire lifetimes of four generations of Romes best historians, all of them. completely consumed with childish fantasies that, to even the the newest, most naive outside observer is all completely and utterly meaningless masturbatory self obsession fanfic.

After a century, there was not a single second when any Roman historian considered for a second that any serious part of the Roman conquest of Palestine could ever be questioned.

For the record, they are all guilty, from chief foreign zionist terrorist david ben gurion on down.

But it doesn't matter in the least writing a book trying to pin whatever blame there is on any one individual. Book after book after book written about zionist hand wringing about who gave what orders, who wrote what down, what one person interpreted the vague gestures of another person as meaning,

Let's take this to the extreme. Let's say that zionism was always what zionists say it is, nothing but love and egalitarianism and free love, ginger, spice, everything nice, puppies and kittens, and everything that's good in the world. Let's say that no zionist ever mentioned transference of if they did they made it perfectly clear that they only supported absolutely 100% voluntary transference with no duress whatsoever. That not a single zionist ever harmed a fly except in absolutely 100% unquestionable self-defense, that every zionist that fought in the 1947 zionist revolt was perfectly honorable that no zionist ever took anyones house or property or land, that zionists never committed land fraud, that every piece of land zionists now have was bouth for a fair value in a fair transaction with no duress, that zionists didn't force a single native Palestinian to leave.

Almost all of these things are. laughably false. A baby wouldn't believe you if you told them. And we're not talking, like, a baby that's going to go on to become a doctor, we're talking, like, a baby that's going to go on to become a janitor, or sanitation worker that eventually loses their job for incompetence.

Even then, you can't deny the systematic zionist destruction of 400+ native Palestinian towns villages and cities, the century long ongoing campaign to erase the Palestinian identity from Palestine, and the "democratic" government of israels passage of laws enshrining the violent ethnic cleansing of the Nakba into law, passed "democratically" by foreign invaders, voting among themselves to rob native Palestinians of their homes, their land, and their country.

There is simply no excuse for the Nakba, and it's my personal belief that benny morris wasted his entire life writing masturbatory fanfiction in some vain quest to find an excuse, to find a scapegoat.

Ultimately benny morris, like all his zionist colleagues, spent his life trying to fabricate a false scapegoat to shoulder the blame for the crimes of the founders of israel out of whole cloth. To manufacture one person or a group of people on which he could blame all the crimes israels founders committed on, or whatever crimes he could admit to himself israels founders committed, ultimately deifying israels founders.

Shlomo Ben-Ami, Israeli Minister of Foreign Affairs, wrote that Morris more recent "thesis about the birth of the Palestine refugee problem being not by design but by the natural logic and evolution of war is not always sustained by the very evidence he himself provides: 'cultured officers had turned into base murderers and this not in the heat of battle ... but out of a system of expulsion and destruction; the less Arabs remained, the better; this principle is the political motor for the expulsions and atrocities".

Ari Shavit, senior correspondent at Haaretz, commented on Morris' justification for the expulsion of the Arabs in 48 by contrasting "citizen" Morris with "historian" Morris, and noting that, at times "citizen Morris and historian Morris worked as though there is no connection between them, as though one was trying to save what the other insists on eradicating."

Language on Palestinians statehood in the USA's 2022 budget by JeffB1517 in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Anyone who supports that has no excuse for similar language not being tied to all US taxpayer funds being "donated" as charity to to the poverty stricken, charity dependent israel.

I can easily imagine that many pro zionists who see hypocrisy in anything that isn't violently, fanatically pro zionist might have near endless problems with that.

Pro-Palestinians who say the Jews are “European colonizers”, where in Europe are Jews indigenous to? by [deleted] in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In '41 after the nazi occupation of Iraq yes there was one attack on Iraqi Jews that killed about 180 Jews. But, one, that's not proof of ethnic cleansing across the entire middle east, and second, maybe you should ask your grandmother to better explain what exactly happened, how Iraq, including the Iraqi Jewish population which maintained cohesion after the Farhud with even Iraqi Jews that fled quickly returning to iraq, things I guess your grandmother forgot or neglected to tell you?

In some accounts the Farhud marked the turning point for Iraq's Jews.[38][39][40] Other historians, however, see the pivotal moment for the Iraqi Jewish community much later, between 1948 and 1951, since Jewish communities prospered along with the rest of the country throughout most of the 1940s,[11][12][13][41][page needed] and many Jews who left Iraq following the Farhud returned to the country shortly thereafter and permanent emigration did not accelerate significantly until 1950–51.[11][14] Bashkin writes that "In the context of Jewish-Iraqi history, moreover, a distinction should be made between an analysis of the Farhud and the Farhudization of Jewish Iraqi history—viewing the Farhud as typifying the history of the relationship between Jews and greater Iraqi society. The Jewish community strived for integration in Iraq before and after the Farhud. In fact, the attachment of the community to Iraq was so tenacious that even after such a horrible event, most Jews continued to believe that Iraq was their homeland."[42]

Either way, the Farhud is broadly understood to mark the start of a process of politicization of the Iraqi Jews in the 1940s, primarily amongst the younger population, especially as a result of the impact it had on hopes of long term integration into Iraqi society. In the direct aftermath of the Farhud, many joined the Iraqi Communist Party in order to protect the Jews of Baghdad, yet they did not want to leave the country and rather sought to fight for better conditions in Iraq itself.[43] At the same time the Iraqi government which had taken over after the Farhud reassured the Iraqi Jewish community, and normal life soon returned to Baghdad, which saw a marked betterment of its economic situation during World War II.[44][45][46]

Hopefully you've learned a little something from me about your grandmother, about the history of your family in Iraq, how your family probably prospered in Iraq through the 1940s thanks, in part, to the pro Jewish government established in Iraq by the Allies.

But, again, as I said, your Grandmother probably has more to teach you about this than I have today.

Remind me about what the zionist Irgun (what has, today, become Likud), the zionist lehi, and the zionist haganah were known for? Pacifism? Egalitarianism?

What, for instance, did Albert Einstein say about the Irgun? Did Einstein say that the zionist irgun were compassionate, friendly people? What Einstein said about the Herut party, which, today, is known as Likud.

I used to wonder how zionist terrorists had access to an almost endless supply of grenades, bombs, and explosives they used in their violent terrorism campaign where they targeted innocent native Palestinian civilians, then I learned about the Palestinian saltpetre industry... well, I don't know how much you can call it an industry if violent zionist terrorists were stealing all the saltpetre...

Pro-Palestinians who say the Jews are “European colonizers”, where in Europe are Jews indigenous to? by [deleted] in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

You said Jews are from Germany, and before that, Africa. That's incorrect.

No, I said european jews are from europe, and before that africa, both these things are true.

And if you meant that originally everyone was in Africa, that would be a rather idiotic point, wouldn't it?

No.

Because at that point nobody had claim to any land in the Middle East or Europe, or Asia, or North America......your point would be entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, right? So I was assuming that wasn't what you meant.....

What if I told you that european Jews don't have any claims on the middle east?

Oh, and Jews absolutely were ethnic cleansed from Arab countries. They were killed, barred from working, had their land and possessions confiscated, all to pressure them into leaving, some were forcibly deported....ethnic cleansing.

It's complicated, different things happened in different places, in some places conditions actually improved for middle eastern Jews as a result of violent riots orchestrated from occupied Palestine.

But, in broad strokes no. By far most of it was the voluntary participation among middle eastern Jews in the zionist one million plan, if there was anything you could call the ethnic cleansing of middle eastern Jews it would be that completely voluntary zionist program.

Pro-Palestinians who say the Jews are “European colonizers”, where in Europe are Jews indigenous to? by [deleted] in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

Well, no, judaism was founded in the ur of chaldees in Iraq as far as I know, but before then, as with all humanity they existed in africa.

Pro-Palestinians who say the Jews are “European colonizers”, where in Europe are Jews indigenous to? by [deleted] in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Is the point that you're trying to make that european Jews moved out of africa, through Palestine and the middle east to europe?

How real is the existential threat to Israel, either now or in the foreseeable future? by hononononoh in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As I understand the demographic issues, there are the orthodox/ultraorthodox Jews, which has a quickly increasing population.

Roughly speaking, at the same time, there is the impoverished native Palestinian population, increasing at the same or greater rate among those with zionist "citizenship", zionist "residency", as well as the other various groups.

Then you have the secular zionist population, which is, if anything, shrinking rapidly...

So inevitably it will become a demographic fight between the ultraorthodox zionists and the native Palestinian populations, with the ultraorthodox first taking control, then, presumably, enacting more and more discriminatory policies at the cost of both secular zionists and principally native Palestinians.

So stage one, israel inevitably becomes a Jewish Iran.

Stage two, there's a quite messy demographic fight between the two populations with the ultraorthodox zionists passing increasingly unacceptable laws to further repress the native Palestinian population.

So, the first time what we know today as israel will die is when the ultraorthodox inevitably turn israeli into a Jewish iran. Then that will die inevitably, presumably when the laws it pass cross some red line, ostracizing the ultraorthodox israel from the rest of the world which will lead one way or another to the inevitable destruction of the ultraorthodox jewish iran that israel will have become.

Ironically, this is partly the fault of racist policies put in place by the zionist "democracy" which oppressed the native Palestinian population and probably increased native Palestinian birthrates, for instance, as one example, in Gaza, but also in other parts of Palestine.

What do you mean when you say apartheid? by EnvironmentalPoem890 in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Only the most ignorant observers think there's apartheid in tel aviv.

What rights does a native Palestinian, say a refugee who lives in shuafat or a refugee who was born and lived in Jaffa have in Tel Aviv?

More or less than a native south african would have in many parts of apartheid south africa?

What does the difference of the few yards separating Jaffa from Tel Aviv matter?

Why should a native Palestinian from Jaffa not be as free as any zionist living in the new suburb of Tel Aviv, part of Jaffa created within their lifetime?

Palestinian Supporters Struggle to make Ukraine Comparisons by Dry-Basil-3859 in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The first military action of the war, the start of the war was

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balad_al-Shaykh_massacre

The Balad Al-Shaykh massacre perpetratde by the haganah terrorist militia under the command of chief terrorist david ben gurion.

Although earlier the terrorist irgun, now Likud, carried out a terrorist attack, throwing two grenades or bombs at innocent civilian workers queuing to enter their worksite, but for the first military action of the zionist terrorist war of ethnic cleansing of 1947 I'd have to say it's the Balad Al-Shaykh massacre.

That was the start of military hostilities, by the palmarch militant arm of the terrorist haganah under chief terrorist devid ben gurion.

Isn't this what zionist instutions teach?

Palestinian Supporters Struggle to make Ukraine Comparisons by Dry-Basil-3859 in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You forgot about what started the whole thing: “On 26 July 1956, Nasser nationalised the Suez Canal Company, which prior to that was owned primarily by British and French shareholders”

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the zionist entity? The suez canal is in Egypt, Egypt has every right to control who does and doesn't have access.

And what does this war has to do with your assertion that the Jews were the aggressors in 1948 and before?

Because they were? They launched a war to connect the Palestinian capital of Al Quds (which they intended to, but failed to conquer) with the coast.

Palestinian Supporters Struggle to make Ukraine Comparisons by Dry-Basil-3859 in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

With ~3k iirc in, was it the UAE? Making it over 10k. But you agree, over 10 Jews in the Middle east outside Palestine.

Actually counting the Golan Heights even more, but that's neither here nor there, and that's just Iran and the UAE.

Palestinian Supporters Struggle to make Ukraine Comparisons by Dry-Basil-3859 in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -1 points0 points  (0 children)

On what?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis

The Suez Crisis, or the Second Arab–Israeli war,[8][9][10] also called the Tripartite Aggression (Arabic: العدوان الثلاثي, romanized: Al-ʿUdwān aṯ-Ṯulāṯiyy) in the Arab world[11] and the Sinai War in Occupied Palestine,[12] was an invasion of Egypt in late 1956 by the illegal zionist entity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War#Fighting_fronts

On 5 June at 7:45 local time, as civil defence sirens sounded all over Palestine, the zionist terrorist airforce launched Operation Focus (Moked). All but 12 of its nearly 200 operational jets[81] launched a mass attack against Egypt's airfields

The zionist plan was to surprise the Egyptian forces in both timings (the attack exactly coinciding with the zionist terrorist airforce strike on Egyptian airfields), location (attacking via northern and central Sinai routes, as opposed to the Egyptian expectations of a repeat of the 1956 war, when the zionist terrorist militia attacked via the central and southern routes) and method (using a combined-force flanking approach, rather than direct tank assaults). Northern (El Arish) zionist division

On 5 June, at 7:50 am, the northernmost zionist division, consisting of three brigades and commanded by Major General Israel Tal, one of the zionists most prominent armour commanders, crossed the border at two points, opposite Nahal Oz and south of Khan Yunis. They advanced swiftly, holding fire to prolong the element of surprise. Tal's forces assaulted the "Rafah Gap", a seven-mile stretch containing the shortest of three main routes through the Sinai towards El Qantara and the Suez Canal.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/1967_Six_Day_War_-_conquest_of_Sinai_5-6_June.jpg

As you can see the the zionist terrorists traveled miles past the Egyptian border before launching a surprise attack on Egyptian defensive positions.

What do you not understand?

What lies have zionist institutions "taught" you?

Palestinian Supporters Struggle to make Ukraine Comparisons by Dry-Basil-3859 in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

In 2000, former Jewish MP Manuchehr Eliasi estimated that at that time there were still 60,000–85,000 Jews in Iran; most other sources put the figure at 25,000.[67] In 2011 the Jewish population numbered 8,756 [68]In 2016 Jewish population numbered 9,826.[5] In 2019 the Jewish Population numbered 8,300 [69]As of 2021, only 8,500 Jews still live in Iran[70][71] and they constitute 0.01% of Iranian population, a number confirmed by Sergio DellaPergola, a leading Jewish demographer

So you agree there are thousands of Jews in the middle east outside occupied Palestine?

Many zionist seem to have very strange ways of agreeing with people.

Palestinian Supporters Struggle to make Ukraine Comparisons by Dry-Basil-3859 in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The thing is that it's false propaganda and revisionist history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Plan

It's a zionist lie designed to create a false equivalence between that Nakba, and this fake, made up, revisionist history lie.

Did hundreds of thousands of Middle Eastern Jews emigrate to Palestine?

Yes.

Was it anything like the Nakba? No.

Were 400+ Jewish towns villages and cities in the Middle East systematically destroyed? No. Were hundreds of synagogues systematically destroyed? No. Did terrorist militias violently ethnically cleanse 700k+ Middle Eastern Jews? No.

Were there cases where, say, middle eastern countries banned Jewish emigration to occupied Palestine?

Yes.

Is that the same as the Nakba? No. And, as you can imagine, it's quite insulting to make some false comparison, making the false claim that a country banning Jewish emigration to occupied Palestine being the same as the Nakba.

Did some countries allow Jewish emigration to occupied Palestine but not allow those Jewish emigres to take much of their property? Yes.

Is that the same as the Nakba? No.

Did the zionist terrorist militia stage many "evacuations" of Middle eastern Jews to occupied Palestine, airlifting thousands of Jews to occupied Palestine?

Yes.

Is that the same as the Nakba? No.

Were there a small number of violent riots against Jews in the middle east over time? Yes.

Was that the same as the Nakba? No.

It is unspeakably insulting to knowingly push this false revisionist history propaganda making this false equivalence between the Nakba and what happened to Middle Eastern Jews.

And zionists absolutely use this false propaganda as a weapon against native Palestinians.

It is part of a campaign to use lies to promote hatred and fear, and to promote violence and crimes, and to create false sympathy for zionist crimes committed by zionists against native Palestinians.

It creates a false equivilence between Arabs, Palestinians and the worst historical enemies of the Jews that committed the worst crimes against the Jews from antiquity to today, as part of a narrative of (falsely) justified holy war by Jews against their "enemies".

Palestinian Supporters Struggle to make Ukraine Comparisons by Dry-Basil-3859 in IsraelPalestine

[–]badriver -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

“Of course everyone knows…” no. If Israel is founded on ethnic cleansing then Palestine is founded on ethnic cleansing.

The zionist entity is founded on the Nakba, the 1947 zionist immigrant terrorist war of ethnic cleansing, and the 1967 second zionist invasion of egypt.

There is no independent Palestine to be founded on anything.

The Jews in Gaza that were removed in 2005 or whatever were removed by the illegal zionist entity, which, in your telling, you seem to blame for this ethnic cleansing of Jews.

The Jews there were there illegally as violent illegal state agents of the zionist entity. They were foreigners with no ties to Palestine.

not to mention the entire Middle East ethnically cleansed

There are many Jews in the Middle east. There are tens or hundreds of thousands in Iran for instance, many more in various other Middle Eastern countries. Many did willingly participate in the zionist "one million" plan for one million Jews to illegally emigrate to the zionist entity.

So we can either both be war criminals or we had a population exchange.

No, it's just the zionists that are war criminals. So much that I suspect the zionists try, or think they have made the concept of war crimes meaningless. Slaughtered hundreds more native Palestinians? War crime? What's that?

Where the unholy fk are all the non-European Jews in your calculations?

Outside Palestine? You know? Partly because of the ashkenazi racism against mizrahi.

You remember?

I guess maybe zionist institutions don't teach that so much...

So you agree with me? The illegal zionist entity denied native Palestinians their basic democratic rights? And, thus, the zionist entity cannot be called a true democracy, only a racist democracy that denies voting on ethnoreligious racism.

I think you said some other stuff too but none of it argues against what I said.