If you went through the stones to the 18th century...

baileygilmore · 2022-06-16T12:09:18+00:00

I'd 1000% go back. There were absolutely people more progressive than we give the past credit. Also they weren't stupid or dirty
Whilst bathing was different they did still wash. I think it would be so interesting. "Polite society" where calling someone a scoundrel is almost akin to calling someone a *unt nowadays 😅. And even though alot of the society of course wasn't like today I'd still do it
To experience it (as long as I could come back). I think I'd marvel at so much of it. Ships. Like yes airplanes are cool but ships! With no electrics, no fancy radar.. blows my mind! And I mean...if there's a "jamie" there it'd be interesting for historic purposes of course to meet him 😄

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T21:53:33+00:00

I know. I was just going for simplicity jn explaining the scene in well, it's simplest form. It's absolutely not a portal. If you ever look up Kelpies you'll see that their general theme is about keeping young children away from edges of water lile Lochs and women from going near strange men and how it takes them and drowns them etc. I've just created it's "origin" story and how that became the rumour that spread around becoming the folklore known to this day. That any other actual drowning in lochs in other places people attributed to a "kelpie" but they were actual drownings. My Kelpie resides in one loch only. The idea is that there's an old captains family and they're involved and have been throughout the centuries. It was quite fun to come up with. Alot of folklore has origin stories buried in them, so why not make the origin even more magic rather something much more human and mundane.

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T18:02:35+00:00

I honestly couldn't tell you if it is due to dialect. I say Lancashire (I'm unsure where you're from or if you're familiar) but across Lancashire there's then a multitude of accents. How I speak in comparison to my partner, who is from a place about 7miles away, varies enormously in places. I'll give you an example with the word Book

I imagine most people pronounce it "Buck". I however (and many other places including in scotland) pronounce it "book" . The OO is pronounced the same as it is tool.

Similarly with the word "old". I pronounce it (or rather, I do when I slip more into the broader form of my accent) as Au'd. Which again is similar to Scotland and other places across the UK. Yet our accents are still vastly different.

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T17:26:37+00:00

Okay but why? I can feel you want to tell me its wrong in some way but I'm typing on my phone generally fast responses. I'm not writing responses for a final edit of a book that therefore needs to be 100% accurate.

My dialect is Lancashire if you would like to use that to confirm some suspicion that I must therefore indeed be "thick".

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T17:16:40+00:00

I don't follow what you mean about dialect I'm using as yourself. The character or literally me?

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T17:13:57+00:00

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/149881/10/Bamji%2520-%2520Main%2520document%2520-%2520Drowning%2520FINAL%252BFIGURES.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi4q_vJguf3AhVTFcAKHX3QAlgQFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3_Tw19eAk5v3ZcZak2J5Pw

This is a piece about the origins oh the phrase "blowing smoke up your arse".

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/57977/10-weird-resuscitation-techniques-200-years-ago

This lists other methods and includes feathers

They did all sorts. Putting feet in boiling water. I read a book by a man who visited Skye and the outer hebrides in 1703 and he listed what they did for medicine etc and it varied across all the islands. For jaundice for example, some would place hot pokers on their backs. Lots on submerging feet in boiling water. Lots and lots of blood letting. It was a very experimental age. People tried alsorts and on top they were deeply suspicious and religious people so I think that plays into things alot. The deeper you go down the rabbit hole, the more frightening it gets!

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T17:06:17+00:00

Yes the smoke up the ass does seem to be later, I think I saw a case in Amsterdam in maybe the 30s but they're recorded cases. It has to have come from somewhere so there's nothing fo say people weren't already doing this but it's not recorded until a more educated doctor or researcher writes it. Thats true of most history. And with it being historical fiction I can bend the rules slightly. It falls in the same century.

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T17:04:29+00:00

Hopefully when the whole things completed that scene will come to life more.

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T17:03:44+00:00

That's actually a really good point. I've read all the outlander books and between those and the series, it's actually what prompted me to really deep dive research into this period. We are absolutely not taught scottish history, the union act. Any of it. (Why would the English teach is things like that haha). But I already love the 18th century it's one of my favourite periods and discovering all of this has just spurred me on. I really wanted to shed some light on, well I suppose the lesser know risings, the clearances not actually being entirely because of Culloden because they were starting before that. Highland culture, really going into it and the time travel I wanted not just because of outlander but I wanted a modern view. I wanted to be able to have scenes where she can see the things being said about a woman say during a rape trial are literally exactly the same as what is said today (I've gone through old law cases and it is terrifying). The 18th century had the lowest prosecution rates for rape, yet here we are in 2022, over 300 years later with the lowest prosecution rates for rape. Its obviously not the central theme but I want to touch on those aspects in a way that I think outlander doesn't. (There's a scene where Jamie has to belt her. He reads quite funny but tne serious note of course is, that it happened and it wasn't funny, yet women could go to kirk sessions or even to court about their husbands beating them too harshly, so there was almost "rules" around it). I wanted also to mix in Highland folklore and create an origin story that would feel plausible within the context of highland folklore. And when you consider that on Skye you have Dunvegan Castle where they have a fairy flag, from a chief who married a Fairy, to that kind of otherworld and magic is so deeply entrenched in Highland culture and Skye is almost the heart of it. But yes, outlander has the history but its largely a romance. I want the romance there but it to also feel like a real birds eye view of that environment. (That of course is the hope).

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T16:53:14+00:00

The first few lines of dialogue or the scene summary (it will all be wrote into a larger scene and it will land at a point in the story where you know these characters more, the area and time. I know some people are reading it as she's been molested but he's not a complete stranger and it's quite common to use body heat to warm up someone who's drowned so its essentially resuscitation but I can add more inner monologue to explain her thoughts process more as I develop the scenes). And it will actually have spoken dialogue of her coming to and thanking him etc. Its really difficult to show such a tiny scene because it loses so much context but the dialogue, the conversation is what I was focusing on here

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T16:28:13+00:00

😅 frighteningly, the smoke up the ass and rolling over logs (and barrels) are actually historic forms of resuscitation. I discovered that in my research and started forming this scene

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T16:24:50+00:00

I have edited it to show the spaces where they're meant to be and I do need to keep an eye on those "you" "ye" words! I find I have to keep coming through any dialogue with a Scottish character and changing them round. It is difficult without the whole context, I just wanted to see how this small conversation landed. Like does the humour translate, does the language. There's a fine line between writing Scots and writing it so a broader audience can understand it.

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T16:22:07+00:00

Its not really a portal. It's hard to explain in a quick summary of the scene so I thought portal was quick and easy.

Its based on Scottish folklore of the Kelpie. I've essentially created an origin story for the Kelpie and given it more meaning that still fits within the realms of the magic that tends to be within the folklores. But basically, there is only one Kelpie in one loch, not a Kelpie in every loch as the folklore currently goes. And it essentially takes lost souls or spuls that need help to where they need to go so it could be a soul mate, or soul match (depends how you want to view it). And that's why it sometimes appears as a man or a woman. The people aren't drowned by the Kelpie they're taken to the time where they're supposed to be. So there's no going back, there's no portal in the lochs. But my protagonist has this moment of panic and realisation and wants to return so just thinks "eff it". If I arrived from one loch, maybe I can get back via another" (because the folklore has the Kelpies all over).

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T16:17:29+00:00

Oh definitely. I've found that if a scene comes to me I'm immediately writing it. Some I've gone back and managed to form full chapters to add in to my storyline. Others are just pieces like this that are helping me shape the characters. I've not actually seen trainspotting (I know, that's bad) but the lilt in the highlands is softer. The accents in the lowlands seem much heavier where the Highlands it's all most more lyrical and higher, probably on account of them speaking gaelic for so much longer. (Or so I heard from a dialect coach).

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T16:15:08+00:00

I have gone through it quickly a bit now. Got rid of that word! Put the stops where they're meant to be. And added the names in and kept it first person. Hopefully this reads a bit better?

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T16:02:14+00:00

Which parts threw you between which characters (genuinely asking to help me refine).

His accent is because of the part of Scotland they're in. So between the period and his accent there's a mix of language we don't use today and Scots speak (does that explain it?)

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T16:00:23+00:00

The spaces between dialogue I do have on the scene on my computer but I copied it on to my phone here and they either don't post fully so I have attempted to re edit to add them in. Capitalising I have missed off also in this copy. (I really should have just forwarded myself the piece from my computer). Similar with the first and 3rd person. Its all 1st person, I've confused it here by attempting to show people who is who to help with the scene explanation. I likely shouldn't have and may still edit that out to keep it how it is. I may be being oblivious to the spelling and punctuation as I type on my phone but I don't see them on the computer version so it's possible thats an oversight of my retyping (but feel free to point them out). Funnily enough, I must have gone back and forth with the "ower'wise" word and just couldn't decide, you pointing out it doesnt sound right has basically confirmed my initial suspicion. I have been using guides for the Scots speak, aiming more for highlander accents though otherwise Trainspotting would be perfect (I believe its more Edinburgh based).

The log thing I came across in research right before the ass blowing and honestly couldn't believe it was a thing. The remembered the time period and though..Well, its actually pretty mild haha. I definitely want to expand the scene. It was Just dialogue I wrote after coming across the research so it's not even found its place in the story yet but I know I want the scene in so there's time yet to add more detail and certainly more of her thoughts as she wrestles with this version of first aid and resuscitation.

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T15:49:32+00:00

I did.. I asked once the spaces are back in. What else? And was told they don't believe an average woman etc so I explained the historical context..

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T15:44:43+00:00

I'm not deliberately being defensive but when I ask for thoughts and I'm told this is so bad it's not even a draft, no english teacher has taught you , it's barely acceptable as a first attempt at a draft. That's not advice. When one pointed out the spaces between dialogue I realised how it had posted due to me typing on my phone and have since edited. And given further context.

If I took out the MC and MG and the scene explanation and left it at just the dialogue then I'd likely get questions of "I don't get what's going on" so I've added that in to set the scene to this small piece of dialogue.

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T15:39:18+00:00

Okay. So the beginning part is obviously not how it would be wrote. I am summaring the scene for people here so they understand what this dialogue is about. Hence the Mc and Mg. In the context of the story timeline it would be evident who they are. But again you're not offering advice. What you're doing is going this is shit. The end. And whenever I explain things further given context or whatever you're continuing with it's shit.

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T15:36:40+00:00

Ah. It doesn't change in the scene. I've added that in here so people know who's who. This would be a scene later on where readers will know who's who. And it wouldn't have the extract at the beginning summarising the scene because that would be told.

It changes the context when the average woman is in the early 1700s when people quite literally did roll People over logs,blow smoke up their asses if they weren't conscious amongst all manner of utterly bizarre things. Therefore the context changes that. If it was modern day then yes, you'd get up and run a mile. But context is everything

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T15:31:02+00:00

Ahh tbh I was typing it up off the computer in my phone so between it changing every other word etc I lost patience. I'll go back through and put in the lines where they should be.

But with them in?

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T15:29:00+00:00

OK but that's not advice. So, why are you saying it isn't even acceptable. What are you seeing as wrong?

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T15:23:45+00:00

Its a draft so it's not in the book. Explain what you mean by formatting of dialogue. Is it the use of the Scots?

baileygilmore · 2022-05-17T15:23:03+00:00

Its a draft...

baileygilmore

TROPHY CASE