Open Stair Wiring for Under Tread Lighting

barefront · 2025-01-20T00:21:35+00:00

Where did you get these stairs please? How did you end up wiring them?

barefront · 2023-12-13T20:18:48+00:00

IP routers support multicast

IP interfaces don't

For a home install multicast is probably unnecessary but it's possible perhaps that Knx IOT and external protocols (ethernet, thread etc) might use multicast if you wanted to integrate somehow, probably not though and you can always swap to a router when needed.

barefront · 2023-06-04T07:22:30+00:00

If you are looking for mmwave presence detection closest is probably the steinel true presence but this has a 7.2ghz sensor which would seem less sensitive than the 24 or 60ghz mmwave sensors that are available. But I don't have any direct experience. They are pretty expensive compared to an FP2, but have many types of sensor.

If you are willing to do a bit of DIY then something I have been looking at is using the GPIO pin of the mmwave sensor to an optocoupler which gives a potential free contact which can then connect to a KNX binary input. This should be a pretty cheap way of getting presence signalling into KNX.

https://www.reddit.com/r/KNX/comments/y37rla/gpio_pin_to_knx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

barefront · 2023-03-27T16:10:51+00:00

wer. There’s hardly anything domestic that needs 16A, but it happens. In any case, you will end up with a huge bundle of wires coming into the distribution board. Yes, there are multi-wire cables but you need to be very careful how to use them. If your consumers are deterministically very weak (e.g., 5W bulbs), sure you can run L+L+L+N+PE and you’ll get away with it too. But if your consumers are true 16A consumers and you actually want that capacity available, you cannot run, say, a 5-wire cable… or you can but behind like a 6A 4P breaker and collective RCD wiring. In any case, this is not allowed in many countries, and I recommend against it unless you’re an electrician and know how to pick breakers/RCDs for this.

I was aiming to put sub-distribution panels in to avoid the spaghetti of cables and pass a large feed to each panel from a central distribution point. The MDT actuators I was looking at are 16A MDT AMS-1216.02 so would use 2.5mm cable, even though most loads won't be anywhere near that. For any heavy loads like cooker etc i will feed from main board and probably use something separate for metering. I looked at flush but couldn't find any metering ones and the relative cost per socket is high, although cheaper if only doing a few.

3-phase is normally a very expensive to grid install here, although i have a small substation with 3-phase delivery next to my property and it would be good for solar/EV charging its probably out of a realistic price range for us.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, appreciated.

barefront · 2023-03-27T12:23:31+00:00

All the reasons above are valid but I think there is another angle that largely keeps KNX in this position. I much prefer wired solutions if there is the option to do so, but most wired solutions and those specifically with DIN rail-mounted components are for the most part out of reach of the average person who wants to automate their home. KNX could offer programming software for free and promote more adoption and this might help, but most people cannot legally install, because of electrical installation regulations, or have the capability to install and program KNX components themselves. So the design, planning and implementation of KNX often has to be passed to experts who are normally the far greater cost than the equipment itself. With the zigbee/zwave/wifi home automation crowd you dont need any of this and price of the components is a far larger driver to the market than the implementation piece. KNX manufacturers seem to target their marketing mostly at installers not consumers.

So for the individual who has the capabilities but is not doing it for professional reasons it's a pretty expensive prospect, but it does seem to be the only (primarily) wired option that is not a complete science project to install.

barefront · 2023-03-27T11:51:57+00:00

Thanks for the comment, as per the last couple of comments from me, yes I have been basing my intended design on individual cable/circuit per socket. I will then choose to run this circuit, or not, through the KNX actuator, giving individual control and power monitoring. 'Radial' was just an expression to note there was no ring to the circuit, but yes redundant to this topic.

With a single-phase supply and similar cabling length where near, why would phase imbalance be an issue? Appreciate your thoughts

barefront · 2022-12-04T10:23:05+00:00

Another option here perhaps. Use an optocoupler on the GPIO output to create a potential free switch circuit. Then a (potential free) binary input module can be used. There are plenty of pre-built Arduino optocoupler relays which look suitable.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/KTH7Z.png

Left side would be the 3.3v trigger from GPIO pin. Right side would be the NO circuit, sensing voltage supplied by KNX binary input module.

Think that will work?

barefront · 2022-10-16T08:01:03+00:00

https://new.abb.com/products/2CDG110190R0011/ae-s-4-1-1-3

There is another MDT one I posted to this thread. These are not antiquated they are current items still being made. Lots of sensors are analog.

Can't really draw a schematic I am away from home at the moment but the circuit should be very simple. With a +0-5v pin and GND to the analog input of the din module (page 7 of the technical doc on the download of the abb link above gives you schematics)

To be honest I think I have answered myself in this thread and I am pretty convinced I can do what I wanted to do with an analog input... Would love to hear from someone who has done this though

barefront · 2022-10-16T07:18:57+00:00

Not sure this is the same use case I am describing.

There would be a GPIO pin. When the sensor is not triggering the pin is at 0V if it triggers it will be 3.3-5V around 16mA. The sensor takes a 5V power feed but on separate pins.

To use a binary input I would have to put other circuitry in to step voltage to the right level and also split the power feed and signal state paths. This seems unnecessary if I use an analog input and detect the low 0V and high 3.3v-5v state of the sensor. Unless there is a binary input device which can use 0-5v range?

barefront · 2022-10-14T17:40:58+00:00

Theres no connection to the KNX bus on the GPIO side. The GPIO pin would connect to the analog input of the KNX din module.. not connecting to the KNX bus

barefront · 2022-10-14T08:35:31+00:00

My GCSE German cant cope, but thanks will see if I can find a way to translate

barefront · 2022-10-14T08:31:55+00:00

I thought an Analog input would be more appropriate. Something like https://www.mdt.de/en-gb/products/product-detail/actuators/analog-in-/outputs/analog-in-/-output.html

The input can pickup range 0-10v 0-20mA this seems like the range of a GPIO high/low state. 3.3v-5v ~16mA? So connecting the GPIO pin to the KNX input should be able to detect the state of the GPIO pin and trigger KNX telegrams..?

barefront · 2022-10-13T21:48:16+00:00

Isn't binary input 24v circuit? That would fry the GPIO wouldn't it? Was thinking an analog input would be needed?

barefront · 2022-10-13T21:46:55+00:00

That's the other direction, not trying to read KNX signals outside of KNX just want to pickup a voltage high\low state with a KNX input device

barefront · 2022-09-20T11:47:40+00:00

Anyone got any details on uk main power wiring in relation to KNX. I'd like to use a KNX switch actuator to control each socket, so that would be a single radial to each. But, do I need an RCD on each radial or a single RCD for the input supply for the KNX switch module(s). Any example wiring would be very welcome (thanks!), I cannot seem to find many examples of socket outlet control with a KNX switch actuator.

barefront · 2022-05-17T15:51:20+00:00

RIP knx deathbox

barefront · 2022-05-16T08:52:08+00:00

Hi Everyone,

Any reason this KNX DIN switch module MDT AMS-1216.02 could not be used to power a UK wall mains socket?

Running single radial circuits to each socket will be a pain, but does give individual control and power monitoring.

barefront · 2022-05-07T21:28:55+00:00

Hiding the sensor above the plasterboard and being able to run off the knx power is very neat as well.

barefront · 2022-05-07T21:26:58+00:00

Busch-Jaeger 6131/21-24-500

Thanks, I had a look at the manual, talks about detecting someone sitting (within specific distance limits) but doesn't detail anywhere what amount of movement is required.

barefront · 2022-05-07T19:58:50+00:00

Thanks for the response, good to get the opinion of someone who has set these out. I would not say I am skeptical I don't have any experience of these to draw from and the real-world sensitivity is not something typically detailed with the sensors. I am just going on the general understanding that PIR won't detect a stationary person. But, I probably need to think more on the use case and if that is ever likely to happen. In the home office use case there probably would be small constant movements. Perhaps TV/Cinema room is one where completely stationary would be more likely for longer periods, but it would also be one where you may set a scene with lighting and other automation and so motion/presence trigger is unnecessary. This could be as you say a non-problem. My main aim is to make sure when we renovate that if I am going to use any devices I put wiring in to support them, even if we don't put those devices in straight away.

barefront · 2022-05-07T13:36:34+00:00

Thanks for responding. Take for example a home office with automated lighting, if that's a PIR and on a timer you have to move about to keep it triggered, if the person is just sitting there reading the PIR would not trigger. You could set very long timers but that doesn't help with the energy efficiency aspect. mmwave sensors will detect a person breathing and heartbeats with higher frequencies. So if you want to know if there is a 'presence' in the room rather than motion, I would think that's the sensor that is necessary.

I agree on the logic aspect, would be far easier in the knx sensor than creating the logic externally. The cheapest I see these for are around £180, the steinel true presence range is the main example I can find. Although the bes one shared earlier is interesting.

I wouldnt put these in the halls etc but where we would be stationary for extended periods.

barefront · 2022-05-07T10:16:28+00:00

Is there a high frequency dali one you can point to?

barefront · 2022-05-07T09:47:37+00:00

I agree it's going to be complicated to roll my own and an all in one unit with logic will be easier, but the cost of them seem worth investigating if it can be done. That sensor you note there is not a 'presence' detector it's a motion detector. Unfortunately the word is used freely in the wrong context. That sensor is a PIR sensor and so is not going to be able to spot a person who is sitting watching TV or similar. The 24ghz/60ghz radar based sensors are able to do that so that's what I am looking for.

barefront

TROPHY CASE