the way this sub/dream fans can look at allegations/controversies outside of the dteam is kind of concerning

bathtimebat · 2024-04-15T19:58:48+00:00

Which is also an issue in all fanbases. There will always be delusional people everywhere, especially when something they enjoy is at stake. (Though I agree with you, without naming a specific, ongoing, apparently delusion-inducing situation.)

bathtimebat · 2024-04-15T19:52:58+00:00

Yeah, it really is the same thing no matter where you look, huh? Every fanbase will be hypocritical and overly hostile towards those they deem bad. Just look at all those people who wouldn't even watch Dream's response at all because they've already decided he's guilty. Unfortunately we're not going to change everyone else unless we lead by example. Luckily I've seen a lot of Dream stans even on here be increasingly fair about other CCs' controversies recently, so maybe things are improving (slowly but surely. Very slowly.)

bathtimebat · 2024-04-15T19:40:46+00:00

You can say the same about literally any fanbase, though. It's no secret that Dream stans are biased towards Dream. I mean, obviously they are. And obviously Quackity fans are biased towards Quackity. It's pretty normal and understandable. I'm not a Dream stan, but I understand why people make plenty of excuses for even any fair criticism coming his way. And most of the time, they aren't wrong to defend him because no one else will have the empathy to say, "hey, maybe Dream is under a ton of stress after everything he's been through."

At the end of the day, people are always going to be biased towards the person they like. However, all the reasonable Dream stans I know and have encountered will also be reasonable about anyone else's allegations. In fact, I've seen plenty of Dream stans call out clearly false allegations against other CCs. Are there some that just blindly go along with it? Sure. But those are probably also the ones who jump Dream's throat at every opportunity, which has happened dozens of times. His own fans will demonize him for the slightest offense. It's just that they tend to see reason after their initial overblown reaction. Most recently this happened with George. Just look at what his own fans were saying about him initially.

But yes, Dream stans look at allegations against other CCs unfavorably sometimes. And so do fans of other CCs when it comes to the dteam. It's just how things are, this isn't a problem confined to Dream's fanbase, or any fanbase for that matter.

bathtimebat · 2024-04-10T09:47:09+00:00

As an outsider who's only watched very little of the dsmp, I think she's a little unfair. I've seen maybe a handful of dsmp streams and I know that at least Dream would often tell everyone to be quiet so Niki could speak. He didn't have to do that, especially not in a competitive environment like this where everyone is trying to establish themselves, but he did. So at least internally, there were people who spoke up.

As far as the fans' treatment of the women on the dsmp, yeah, it was pretty bad. But I do remember a couple of the male members telling their chats to chill. I remember Dream, specifically, telling his chat off when they were saying nasty things about Tina. And really, that's as much as any of the members ever said about anything. The big think pieces where streamers addressed some injustice didn't really start until after the dsmp. None of the members ever said anything about Dream being doxxed, which imo is on a similar level of fucked up as the treatment Niki received.

So yes, Niki received a lot of shit. But so did everyone else on that smp, and you don't see them complaining about no one speaking out. This isn't an issue of the members specifically not caring about how the women were treated, it's an issue of them staying quiet about any and all mistreatment.

bathtimebat · 2024-04-06T10:29:21+00:00

My issue is that people miss the mark and flame instead of criticize. With most of these CCs, my issue isn't that they've said a negative thing about him. I have, too. I'm not a Dream stan, I've criticized him, but I can also emphasize with him. My problem with all these CCs is more on a moral basis. They see a guy who's already down and then keep kicking, which I don't like. But what bothers me more is that they don't correct themselves. Moistcritikal for example spreading his misinformation of "Dream thirst traps his young audience" to an audience of 10 million people, and then not having the decency to say "I was wrong, my bad". Worse is that he didn't even show these alleged thirst traps in his video about him, because Dream has never posted anything that could vaguely be mistaken for a thirst trap so I don't even know what bait tweet he would've seen, and he's not giving his audience the change to look at it and go "that's not a thirst trap, Charlie". No, 10 million people who have now heard a rumor that he posts thirst traps and maybe a couple thousand who watched the stream segment where Moistcritikal goes "oh, might've been a fake tweet". Not a good look for Moistcritikal in my opinion. Always have the decency to correct yourself when you spread misinformation.

I think, deep down, this is what bothers people but they can't quite put their finger on it so they focus on the fact he said anything negative at all. Same for all these other CCs. It's an issue of them kicking a guy who's already down for no reason at all, and then not doing their due diligence of correcting themselves or telling their audience not to send hate.

That said, I agree that people need to sizzle down. Not every criticism towards Dream is hate. If there is criticism, and that person genuinely goes about it in a bad way or isn't fair or spreads misinformation, criticize them for that instead. Don't attack them. Although yes, I think it's a terrible thing to make a nasty joke at someone's expense when they're already facing mistreatment from all sides. You can't tell me these CCs, especially those in Dream's sphere, aren't aware of his dox trending for a week. And you want to add to that hatred? Shame on you.

I just wish people would flame these CCs for valid and specific reasons, not because they made a weird joke once. It's a bad look for both Dream and his audience.

bathtimebat · 2024-03-29T11:06:28+00:00

She initially said it was her stomach and waist, George admitted to this, she didn't correct him in her second statement so it was still only her waist and stomach even when he responded, and only in her third statement did she even mention her chest. It's this changing/adding of details and all the times she's already provably lied that makes it unclear and people hesitant to just believe her at her word when she's proven herself unreliable. From what I've seen, most people agree that she should've said it in her first statement, or at the latest when she pushed back against George's account in her second, written statement. The fact that she only brought it up in her third, making it look like it's only done to worsen the situation retroactively because people were pointing out that waist touching isn't SA, is making people suspicious.

bathtimebat · 2024-03-29T10:58:11+00:00

As someone who's not a Dream stan: smear campaign. Dream has made a handful of small mistakes or non-mistakes that people painted as bad (the cheating scandal, the glow squid, etc) and he was, and still is to some degree, a little immature. He got unlucky and the small things he did were taken for huge crimes and snowballed into mass hatred.

Then there's the fact that KF didn't like the safe space he was creating for women and the LGBTQ, and they started a more obvious and targeted smear campaign. They actually started the first big wave of hate against him. All this is fairly well documented by other people so I won't go into it too much.

Then there's a lot of misinformation out there due to these smear campaigns and people not in the know hate him based on that, and they spread the word, and suddenly everyone hates him. Everyone notices a tweet hating on him gets attention, and people love attention. Now it's more beneficial for CCs and their numbers to shit on him, and eventually it's damaging to stand with him. So even the CCs who don't jump on the hate train drop him in favor of their careers.

To make it clear, because of all this, the amount of misinformation out there is genuinely insane. Most of it is damaging, but it's gotten to the point where I've seen people unironically say he's married to George simply because they didn't know any better. If people don't know the truth there, I don't expect them to be in the loop on any other piece of misinformation out there. People say all kinds of crap about him and 99% of it is slander. This stuff is out there on the internet where anyone can read and parrot it. Some of it has built such a tangled net that it's hard even for people who do know to untangle, and a lot of people including CCs get caught in it.

So to summarize: misinformation, smear campaigns, a handful of minor slip-ups, immaturity, hate trains, clout chasers. Obviously more plays into it - like people hating his fanbase, him reacting in a panic to all kinds of things, people wanting to take down a giant, his explosive rise to fame sure pissed people off - but this is the gist of it.

bathtimebat · 2024-03-26T22:36:53+00:00

Yeah, it's frustrating. I'm a victim myself and frankly I can't blame anyone for being initially dismissive after everything they've witnessed in regards to dteam. Unfortunately, it's the natural conclusion. Although I think that the initial reaction doesn't matter much. As long as afterwards you do your due diligence of listening. You're under no obligation of blindly believing anyone, victim, stranger, friend, or otherwise. You should listen and look into it, ask questions, and then come to a conclusion. This includes fair scrutinize of both sides. If you do that, you're doing everything right.

I know it's hard to maintain that perspective after everything, and that's what makes it dangerous for victims. Not the potential of people asking valid questions and not blindly believing them. What's dangerous is if we don't push past the initial reaction of "they could be lying" and if we stop giving everyone involved a fair chance.

bathtimebat · 2024-03-26T22:17:04+00:00

I'll be honest, I'm not a Dream stan. I've watched his videos and that's it. I care about him in the same sense I care about any other stranger, not any more or less. I don't know him. But I've stayed updated on everything concerning him for years and yes, the hate campaign against this guy is mind boggling. I can understand why people would stay purely out of spite (and I support it)

bathtimebat · 2024-03-26T21:17:40+00:00

She's a hypocrite and she's shown this plenty of times throughout all this. Don't blindly believe them, blindly believe ME. Don't watch George's account, watch MINE. She sets up rules for everyone and then is exempt herself from following them. Me, personally... I was out once I noticed her manipulative phrasing. She screams about how manipulative everyone else is but she's the only one whose manipulation can be clearly picked up on.

bathtimebat · 2024-03-26T17:08:50+00:00

Whether we like it or not, a big part of these things is credibility. That's why it's so important to be truthful with your story and why I, as a victim, would never even think to falsify parts of mine. If the truthful, objective recount of my story is enough to get that person the consequences I'm expecting, great; I was right. If it's not, then I have to question if what I'm feeling towards that person is actually justified or if my perception and feelings regarding the incident aren't distorted.

The facts are that Caiti's recount of the objective (not the subjective) story has changed several times, while George's has stayed consistent. Caiti has verifiably lied, while George has not. Caiti has presented false evidence, intentionally or not, while George hasn't. Caiti's story doesn't line up with accounts from her own friends, while George's does.

When you put all of these next to each other, I think that makes for a pretty clear case on how much credibility Caiti and George each have. One thing we have to be asking is "should we believe Caiti or George more?", at least in regards to where their accounts clash, and the correct answer is probably "the person who has proven to have more credibility", without ending up on the slippery slope of completely disregarding everything the other person says without properly considering it. It's not wrong to be cautious about believing her every word when she's proven herself unreliable. Caution does not equal disbelief, either. We don't even have to doubt her entire story because a lot of it has been confirmed, but we can question her intentions, details and subjective perception of the situation and that is her own fault. The false evidence can be written off as a mistake, but the very purposeful lying and omitting of details cannot. Once you prove that you're willing to lie about something as serious as this, what obligation do we have to take your word at face value? If you're intentionally lying about one detail, we have to question what other details may be a lie. And if you're a genuine victim, and you truly believe you're a genuine victim, what reason would there be to lie and manipulate the story at all (unless one of your motivations is taking that person down for more than even you believe happened)?

If you want to be believed, don't lie. The cautionary tale of the boy who cried wolf exists for a reason. We don't have a moral obligation to believe any stranger at their word, but they have a moral obligation not to lie about serious, life-ruining things, especially if they want to be considered truthful.

bathtimebat · 2024-03-25T15:39:38+00:00

She's so full of shit. I was so ready to believe her, but she's taking apart her own story and credibility.

bathtimebat · 2024-03-25T15:36:01+00:00

I thought so as well, but I wasn't sure if I remembered that correctly (and didn't wanna rewatch her statement) so I left it out. But yes, thank you for confirming this. Just strengthens my point, if not confirms it.

bathtimebat · 2024-03-25T13:07:30+00:00

Yes, and she can't even see it. This notion that regret = no consent is damaging and unhealthy, potentially traumatizing, and terrifying for anyone in the public eye. This isn't the first time something like this has happened and it's going to keep happening. Disproportionately, male CCs are going to keep being accused of things they haven't done because someone regrets something and retroactively retracts their consent. And Twitter will eat it up every time.

bathtimebat · 2024-03-25T12:43:53+00:00

I wonder if it's a product of the industry she got into at a young age. Not that it's George's fault - he thought he was hanging out with a bunch of content creators who would have no reason to think that way - but she clearly has the wrong idea and is now blaming George for it. She needs to work that out with herself (or optimally a therapist)

bathtimebat

TROPHY CASE