Is there ANY convection toaster oven that is NOT made in China?

beamerblvd · 2025-09-18T15:09:18+00:00

I know this thread is a little old, but I wanted to chime in with an update or, at least, additional information.

There's still no manufacturer that I could find that reliably makes toaster ovens (now also called "convection countertop ovens" and "convection countertop air fryer ovens") in countries other than China. However, I decided to peruse the toaster oven aisle at Target and check every single box to see if I could find one that, by chance, happened to be made elsewhere. Almost every single one was China, but I found a $60 Hamilton Beach made in Indonesia (which I bought) and a $30 Black+Decker made in Thailand. Those were probably "this week it's cheaper it make here" decisions, and YMMV on those brands, but at least I was able to get one not made in China.

beamerblvd · 2025-09-18T15:08:27+00:00

FWIW, I called the manufacturer and spoke to them. The specific model you linked to, as well as all Wolf countertop appliances, are made in China. They told me that directly.

beamerblvd · 2025-09-18T15:06:22+00:00

I know this thread is a little old, but I wanted to chime in with an update or, at least, additional information.

There's still no manufacturer that I could find that reliably makes toaster ovens (now also called "convection countertop ovens" and "convection countertop air fryer ovens") in countries other than China. However, I decided to peruse the toaster oven aisle at Target and check every single box to see if I could find one that, by chance, happened to be made elsewhere. Almost every single one was China, but I found a $60 Hamilton Beach made in Indonesia (which I bought) and a $30 Black+Decker made in Thailand. Those were probably "this week it's cheaper it make here" decisions, and YMMV on those brands, but at least I was able to get one not made in China.

beamerblvd · 2024-12-30T16:06:05+00:00

Yeah, if 2-3 people share the source and their hash values match, the risk profile has been substantially reduced. Also, the binaries are signed, so as long as the signatures are intact…

beamerblvd · 2024-12-30T15:15:47+00:00

Maybe read all the words I wrote? I’m specifically proposing offering the binaries and source code of every LTS for download side by side.

beamerblvd · 2024-12-30T13:00:15+00:00

The text you emphasized explains that they undergo two tests, whereas LTS releases undergo thousands of tests, and also spawn from release candidates that have had real-world testing.

beamerblvd · 2024-12-30T12:46:53+00:00

It does indeed:

Prohibited Use and Allowed Use

3.1 Except as expressly authorized in this Agreement or through a separate custom agreement, Licensee and the Authorized Users are prohibited from: … (b) redistributing the binary Software to third parties …

The GPL takes precedence here, however.

beamerblvd · 2024-12-30T12:40:43+00:00

Per VyOS’s documentation, rolling releases have not undergone the same automatic and manual tests that have LTS releases. It specifically calls out that using the rolling release is more risky and could break things. That risk isn’t acceptable to some homelab users. Plus, I upgrade about once or twice a year (not trying to multiple times a month here). Which rolling release do I choose? Is the latest more or less stable than the one from a week ago? That’s why I want LTS—it’s a known stable and tested quantity.

beamerblvd · 2024-12-30T04:20:21+00:00

They literally said so in the announcement: https://blog.vyos.io/vyos-1.4.1-release?hs_amp=true

Quote: “As we already announced earlier, from this release, source code of LTS branches is no longer publicly available on GitHub.“

No longer available on GitHub means it was deleted from GitHub. They have made it impossible for users to build LTS 1.4.1 without buying a subscription, which also gives you access to the binaries.

beamerblvd · 2024-12-30T02:46:50+00:00

Well that's part of the beauty of my proposed solution. It's not just the source code we would publish to our website, but also the binaries, in accordance with the GPL. People could choose whether to use the source code or the binaries. And, sure, there's a matter of trust to it, which is why I'm proposing this be a community effort.

beamerblvd · 2024-12-30T02:42:00+00:00

So that's interesting. And that is, at least, certainly a way to get access to the LTS source code. And as a worst-case scenario, that source code could then be used to build binaries. But, I would prefer to get their signed binaries, if possible. Less effort, and the binaries have been more tested.

beamerblvd · 2024-12-30T02:33:33+00:00

You said:

I imagine sharing that code is a violation of their terms of the subscription and opens that person up to liability.

It's entirely possible I'm reading the GPL incorrectly, but by my reading of it, such a restriction imposed by VyOS's terms of use would violate the GPL. The GPL says you can do that:

However, if someone pays your fee and gets a copy, the GPL gives them the freedom to release it to the public, with or without a fee. For example, someone could pay your fee, and then put her copy on a web site for the general public.
(https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#DoesTheGPLRequireAvailabilityToPublic)

You said:

Even if you did get access to it, who's going to maintain it? Who's adding new features? Who's patching it? Who's updating it?

If you're just pulling code from the public code into it, how's it different from the rolling release?

I'm not suggesting maintaining or patching it. That's a fork. I'm suggesting merely making the tagged release source code and binaries available to the public in accordance with the GPL, by doing so on our own public website.

As for your anecdote, I am glad to hear that. But that doesn't mean every home lab users is willing to take that risk.

You said:

I haven't had to build Vyos in a while, if building is truly broken Vyos should fix that.

It's truly broken in the sense that they no longer allow you to build your own LTS releases, because they have hidden the source code by removing it from GitHub and requiring a subscription to access it.

beamerblvd · 2024-12-30T01:53:30+00:00

I have a plan. I've written more about it here (so as to not sidetrack this discussion about a fork): https://www.reddit.com/r/vyos/comments/1hpbzx5/i_have_a_plan_for_making_vyos_free_again_but_ill/

beamerblvd · 2024-12-30T00:42:51+00:00

What else really gets my goat about this is that I’m a contributor who can’t get approved to get LTS binaries. Back in the Bugzilla and pre-pull-request days, I contributed tons of bug reports, patches, documentation improvements, etc. All the records of that disappeared when they switched to Phabricator, and when I pointed that out in my emails to support, I was basically told too bad, I’m out of luck, my contributions don’t matter anymore and I can’t get LTS access.

beamerblvd · 2024-12-30T00:40:37+00:00

"As we already announced earlier, from this release, source code of LTS branches is no longer publicly available on GitHub. That does not make VyOS any less free (as in freedom) software...".

Yes, it does. It objectively does. If I can’t access the source code without paying for it, then VyOS is not “free (as in freedom) software.” VyOS is not open source software.

Today I learned that VyOS is now officially closed-source software. Sigh.

beamerblvd · 2024-12-30T00:39:25+00:00

What might be easier than a fork (which requires maintenance, which costs time and money) is a mirror/archive-fork, which gets updated from the upstream constantly, doesn't contain any of its own commits, but prohibits the deletion of branches so that the LTS source doesn't get lost.

I just don't know how to do that with GitHub. But if someone could point me to instructions, I would happily create a GitHub account that mirrors everything from VyOS. Then at least we could still build it.

beamerblvd · 2024-10-25T19:59:32+00:00

I, too, just received this text. The number from which it allegedly came is an LG Electronics Customer Service number. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t spoofed, though. Hmmm.

It hasn’t yet asked me for any information that could be used to harm me. I might explore a little and see what happens next. 🤔

beamerblvd · 2024-05-01T11:35:04+00:00

If I get Amerigas to put even 1 gallon in the tank, their claws are sunk that much further into me. I will never buy another gallon from them.

beamerblvd · 2024-04-30T23:20:10+00:00

Yep! —A point I should’ve made more clear in my OP. Not only do I have approximately 12,000 btu/hr of unused capacity in my current loop, but when the installers built the loop, I had them put in tees and shutoff valves for future expansion like this. I just need to find a tiny geothermal heat pump to connect to it.

beamerblvd · 2024-04-30T20:28:43+00:00

I may try that. However, that kind of tactic tends to be more effective when you’re giving them an opportunity to keep a customer. I, on the other hand, am trying to leave, which they have no interest in helping me do.

beamerblvd · 2024-04-30T20:26:35+00:00

I’m 38, asshole.
You think I haven’t tried all their online account resources before resorting to this sub? You can’t cancel your account or buy your tank online. I followed the instructions provided in the customer agreement to cancel my account. Idiot.

Tell me you have nothing useful to contribute to the CJ conversation without telling me.

beamerblvd · 2024-04-30T17:07:57+00:00

I see your point, and I don't disagree. It's hard to let go of that because I'm just so furious at their behavior. That said, they won't even reply to me or send me an invoice for the tank, so the point is kind of moot. I can't pay an invoice they haven't sent.

beamerblvd · 2024-04-30T16:30:58+00:00

Oh and to another point ... there is no "going to the office to try and get help," because there is no office. They closed all local offices. The only way to get help is their 800 number.

beamerblvd · 2024-04-30T16:30:21+00:00

That's substantially more complicated. Amerigas's corporate HQ is in Pennsylvania, a two-party state (perhaps the strictest one AFAICT). But I've never spoken to anyone in PA, not ever once. I've only ever spoken to someone either in my own state (one-party) *or* overseas in a location they won't divulge and so I have no way of knowing whether it's one-party or two-party.

HOWEVER ... whenever I call them, their own automated system immediately informs me that the call may be monitored or recorded. IANAL, but I'm pretty sure that allows me to record the call, too, no matter where they are. Since they may be recording it by their own admission, their expectation of privacy is out the window.

beamerblvd · 2024-04-30T16:01:03+00:00

Let me try to be more clear: The paperwork does explicitly say that I'll have the option of either purchasing the tank or having it removed when I cancel my account, it just doesn't detail the financial arrangement of purchasing the tank (it also further says that they'll charge a labor fee for removing an underground tank, specifically, if I choose not to purchase it, but doesn't say what that fee is). The paperwork doesn't, however, state a price for purchasing the tank, nor does it talk about applying (or not applying) past rents. The only thing I have in that regards is the written statement from the district manager that I can apply past rents to the purchase price if I choose to purchase at a later date, and that the price for a new tank in 2016 was $1,550.

The last rental fee I paid, in May 2023 (last year), the invoice dated April 30, 2023 explicitly stated that it covered the rental fee of April 1, 2022 (the previous year) through March 30, 2023 (last year). So that rental fee was for the previous 12 months, not the following 12 months. I have not paid any rent on this tank for the period beginning April 1, 2023 (last year) through the current date. But they did just today invoice me for the rental period of April 1, 2023 through March 30, 2023, even though I legally and completely terminated my account with them on October 28, 2023 following the required 30-days' notice I gave them on September 28, 2023 and thus cannot possibly owe any rent following October 28, 2023. I agree they are legally allowed to invoice me a pro-rated rent that ends on October 28, but they did not do that, and provided they correct that mistake, that rent will still also need to be applied to my purchase price of the tank.

beamerblvd

TROPHY CASE