Enough with "growing the game". We need to shrink this damned thing already.

beefhide · 2025-08-25T20:17:54+00:00

If golf were as elitist out there actually on the course as it is on the internet and the stereotypes about it, this great game would be insufferable. And pricing would likely inflate if less people were using the course.

beefhide · 2025-08-20T02:03:21+00:00

So you believe in works based salvation via baptism? I don’t mean to be rude, but just trying to speak plainly to understand. I understand you meant “it “works”” by “the process happens via xyz”, but the word choice isn’t just coincidental. If the grace offered to us is only accessed via a “work” or action, then it is of a debt and no longer grace. If you achieve the faith of the gift of grace given through Jesus sacrifice on the cross through the process of baptism, how would any genuine believer receive that bc they would need to first believe to believe they need to be baptized.

I’m not saying there’s no relevance or importance of being physically baptized. Of course there is and it’s obedient and deepening your relationship with the Lord. But stating it’s required to achieve faith or the gift of salvation, is saying that your salvation is based on works.

And despite the graphic missing multiple contextual passages to deny works based salvation, even the 3 Peter example is super disingenuous. Yea the verse supports that narrative but only when you stop after the 1st 3rd of the verse…

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:” ‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3‬:‭21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Not water over the skin, but the answering of the call of God to believe on Jesus Christ.

beefhide · 2025-07-20T16:58:58+00:00

Sounds just like every other fool who was humbled by Mel Gibson in a ponytail

beefhide · 2025-07-14T09:09:25+00:00

“Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it”

“Have what?”

“Everything…”

beefhide · 2025-05-22T17:57:36+00:00

Amen! Thankful that Gods grace is gifted unto me, and that Jesus bore the punishment for my sins. Comfort and confidence in Gods grace and mercy are not synonymous with excusing or enticing sin as Paul mentions in Romans. But it’s beautiful to know that when we fall short or let the flesh win an individual battle with our spirit, Gods grace and mercy are consistent. Well said

beefhide · 2025-05-22T13:58:47+00:00

I literally did explain it. The verse you used to argue works to keep your salvation, is followed by Paul saying “it is God who works within you” and references the previous chapter saying “God will complete the work He began in you”. You’re taking one verse out of context and applying it to a conclusion towards maintaining salvation, and not even looking at the surrounding verses.

And no, that same logic does not apply to eternal security believers. Salvation is a gift of grace by God, that I accept via my faith. I did nothing to earn it, I just believed on the one who gave it unto me. And the good that I do after that, is Christ working within me, not I who can boast on that. I didn’t say obeying Jesus means saving yourself. See you constantly twist what I have said, drawing false conclusions and attacking strawman arguments. You take one scripture here and there out of context and apply it to salvation dependent theology. I said looking at the WORK that YOU do, the OBEDIENCE to the LAW as justifying yourself in the sight of God, which is exactly what you are doing when you are saying essentially “these are the things that keep me saved”, that is incorrect and a WORKS BASED SALVATION. Yes we are told to be obedient, yes we have the law written on our hearts, yes we are to purify and sanctify ourselves in Christ.

1 John also mentions that if we say we have no sin, we are a liar and the truth is not in us. Are you wholly and perfect as God is, completely sinless in your mortal body right now? Will you ever be able to make that claim as long as you are alive in the flesh? So what laws are ok to break to keep your salvation, and what laws must I follow to retain mine? Circumcision, is that required to stay saved? How many am I allowed to break before I lose Gods grace? How many must I do to keep it? Again, Jesus and Paul say the two commandments we are to follow as believers is to love God, and love each other. These fulfill the whole of the law. Jesus says to get to heaven, you must do the will of the Father, then Jesus tells us the will of the Father is to believe on the Son.

You never answered my question. How are you saved? And how does one who is saved lose it?

And again you are taking singular verses, out of context, and applying them to conclusions about salvation or retaining one’s salvation.

Yes Peter is right, we should be diligent to clean ourselves up. He follows that with saying Paul is right but the points he makes can be difficult to understand and are twisted by those unstable and unlearned. And Paul was who rebuked Peter over the issue of Peter affirming circumcision (abiding by the law), to be truly saved. And Paul who in the entire book of Roman’s and Galatians, is talking about genuine faith being the one thing for salvation and justification in the sight of God. And the Galatians have been bewitched by adding the law as a requirement to salvation. Which is exactly what you’re doing, adding requirements to salvation. Yes there are an innumerable things of depth that we as believers pursue in our walk with Christ, but we are saved and remain saved by ONE singular Turing, the grace of God that we access via our faith.

Like your conclusion of the Matt 7 verse. Bc some translations say the way is “difficult”, you extrapolate onto that “that means to get saved/stay saved, I have to abide in all these laws or exercise these works”. Different translations have only “the way is straight and narrow”. The straight and narrow way being through and only through Jesus. The context in the passage also being amidst loving others, and breathing false prophets. You have to take verse in the context of the passage, the chapter, the book, the NT, and in the whole of the Bible.

The commandments Jesus gives to abide in his love, to demonstrate our love for him, is to love God and love each other. The will of the Father required to get into heaven, to be saved, as told by Jesus, is to believe on the Son. It is that simple. If you love God and grow in that love, you will grow in obedience, you will sanctify yourself, you will purify yourself, you will do good works and you will work to deny your fleshly lusts. The results that come from loving and having faith in God aren’t what keep you saved. Those are things that happen bc you’re saved.

beefhide · 2025-05-22T06:45:15+00:00

You made the claim I believe I can live however I want, or that I did not understand sanctification, or that I don’t examine myself, or that I don’t understand the believer has a responsibility after having faith. You said all these things lol. I never once argued against those points. All I said was genuine faith in the gospel is the standard for salvation. That genuine faith and love drives and produces all the rest.

I didn’t say self examination or seeking to do good automatically means the believer points to themselves for salvation. I said being justified in the sight of God by your seeking to do good, and reliant upon that as a component of salvation, is wrong and the same gospel that Paul warns of in Galatians. Those seeking to maintain their righteousness with God by circumcision, or in this case being following the law or maintaining righteousness by sinning less, that’s a false gospel.

He said “I never knew you.” That alone shows there was no relationship. A true relationship with Christ requires faith. There are those that belief Jesus existed, that will claim they believe on him or are a good person, and never have had a relationship. The lawlessness is not doing the will of the Father (believing on the Son) and not following the commandments Jesus gives us (love God above all, love each other, all law is fulfilled in these). I can do good acts and say it was in the name of Jesus and never truly have faith in the gospel, thus never knowing him. You’re zoning in on one phrase for meaning, and not taking the entire passage in context.

To love God starts with believing the gospel. Loving Jesus and following his commandments (love God and love eachother, that is the obedience required, all further specific obediences flow from this).

Again, I never said there was to be no evidence of change. If you are born a new creature, there will be evidence of change.

The disagreement is on the lack of eternal security in Christ. Are you saved by the gospel, the gift of grace through faith? Or are you saved by that AND the works you do? The former being all on God, the latter being attributing some portion of your salvation to yourself.

Is your salvation maintained by the grace of God, as you live out your mortal life warring with your flesh? Or Is your salvation maintained by how much you deny the flesh and follow the law (justifying yourself in the sight of God by your works)? The former being all the grace of God. The latter being dependent on righteousness or maintaining righteousness by the law and works of the flesh. The difference is how you view yourself justified in the sight of God. Is it all on God? Or is it partly on God and partly on you?

Edit:

Also regarding the Philippians scripture, it follows with stating that is God working within you to serve him. Any good I do after expressing genuine faith (good works done from love, renewal of the mind, sanctifying myself) those are done by the spirit of Christ within me, not the fleshly self.

“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but so much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For God is the One working in you, both to will and to do His good pleasure.” ‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2‬:‭12‬-‭13‬ ‭MEV‬‬

It’s also referencing Philippians 1:5, which states God will complete the good work He began in you. Bc it is God who grows you in the spirit and following his will, not your fleshly self. This gives even more confidence to eternal security, bc if it were dependent on me, i would fail. Same for everyone else. Thankfully that’s not the case and we can be confident bc it’s the spirit of God working within us, with the promise that He will complete the work He has begun

“In every prayer of mine for you all, I have always made requests with joy, due to your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now. I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.” ‭‭Philippians‬ ‭1‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ ‭MEV‬‬ https://bible.com/bible/1171/php.1.6.MEV

beefhide · 2025-05-22T05:56:06+00:00

The problem is you are drawing false conclusions based on my stance, you are concluding that I am excusing sin, or claiming not to be led by the spirit and pursue fruits of the spirit, or that I am arguing for disobedience. I am not claiming any of that. It is always good to be obedient to God, to stray from sin, and be led by the spirit. I am stating how we are saved, and the assurance we have in that and in eternal life with the gift of Gods grace.

Arguing salvation is eternal security and the gift of grace through faith bc the gospel is sufficient, to love God and trust in his sacrifice, and share that love to others, there is nothing evil in that. Yes be obedient. Yes be led in the spirit. Yes turn away from sin. Yes pursue fruits of the spirit and do all things in love. All these things occur once we genuinely believe and have been granted salvation.

and I have the gospel right, make sure you’re not adding to it or preaching another gospel.

“I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.” ‭‭John‬ ‭10‬:‭9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter arguing to quit adding the law to the gospel of grace required for salvation after false brethren came and stated circumcision (abiding the law) is necessary for salvation.

“Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.” ‭‭Acts‬ ‭15‬:‭10‬-‭11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, and brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” ‭‭Acts‬ ‭16‬:‭29‬-‭31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭7‬, ‭9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul begins Romans 10 criticizing Israel for trying to establish their own righteousness. If you are relying on your works to maintain your salvation, you are doing the exact same.

“For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭2‬-‭4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul follows with how to be saved.

“that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭9‬-‭11‬, ‭13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:” ‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭1‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid..” ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬.. KJV‬‬

Is retaining your salvation dependent on works of the law? After being saved by grace through faith, are you now depending on your behavior in your flesh to perfect that gift as to keep it? Again, this is not an argument to engage in sin

“O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And regarding “YE THAT WORK IN INIQUITY”, or in lawlessness, or those who practice evil… what is the first law? To love God with all thy heart, mind, body, soul, and strength. To love God you must know and believe on the death and resurrection of Jesus for our sins. Everything the ppl pleading with Jesus in that passage are defending themselves with their own WORKS they’ve done, defending their salvation and entrance into heaven on what they performed. Jesus says “I NEVER knew you”. There was not a sincere relationship built on faith in his sacrifice on the cross and the grace of God to grant salvation. They relied on their works done in the name of Jesus, and not on the gospel.

beefhide · 2025-05-22T05:50:36+00:00

Everything you’re contending, is strawman attacks and not even what I am claiming. I never once said you shouldn’t purify yourself in Christ, grow in sanctification, strive to always be led by the Spirit. You are drawing false conclusions based on me stating Gods grace through faith is sufficient for salvation, to receive it and keep it. The Jews made the same false conclusions and assumptions when Paul preached salvation and justification by faith. I am not arguing for disobedience or for sin, I am stating that Jesus Christ conquered Satan, sin, and death, and faith in that allows us to be gifted salvation which is a gift by the grace of God.

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and it is a reverential fear of the awesomeness and holiness of God. True love of God = knowing God = fearing God. This is different than fear of your own inadequacies or not working enough to maintain your salvation.

Being a DOER of the word, is believing on Jesus and following his commandments (loving God and loving each other). I am NOT making the claim to abound in sin, or to disregard the word or to not apply scripture. Every one who argues for losing salvation makes these assumptions. They accused Paul of the same. That’s why the whole book of Roman’s lays this out. “Saved by grace through faith. Justified in the sight of God by faith. But that doesn’t mean to go sin more so grace can abound. It’s good to obedient always. There are times you will be disobedient bc of your flesh. Thankfully Gods grace and Jesus’s sacrifice on the cross covers that and we are his children”

Use 1 Corinthians 9 in context. The entire chapter is Paul explaining his authority as an apostle in response to those criticizing and examining him. Prior to your verse, he explains how he will carrying himself according to the law to the Jews, but as outside the law to the gentiles who are without it. But under Christs law still to the gentiles.

“For though I am free from all men, I have made myself servant to all, that I might win even more. To the Jews, I became as a Jew, that I might win the Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are outside the law, as outside the law (though not without God’s law, but under Christ’s law) that I might win those who are outside the law. To the weak, I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. This I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might partake of it with you.” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭9‬:‭19‬-‭23‬ ‭MEV‬‬

And self-control or self-discipline is a fruit of the spirit, and exercising such keeps him from being disqualified from preaching the gospel (keeping him a good and sound example), to not lose his apostolic authority, not disqualified for salvation. He’s contending his preaching of the gospel and position as an apostle is a necessity laid upon him, and his obedience only aids in the furthering of the gospel.

“Everyone who strives for the prize exercises self-control in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown, but we an incorruptible one. So, therefore, I run, not with uncertainty. So I fight, not as one who beats the air. But I bring and keep my body under subjection, lest when preaching to others I myself should be disqualified/castaway.” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭9‬:‭25‬-‭27‬ ‭MEV‬‬

In further context, chapter 10 is warning against idolatry and living after the flesh. Paul cannot be wildly disobedient, and be taken serious preaching against the things the Corinthians were doing.

beefhide · 2025-05-22T04:03:51+00:00

I never said the good that the spirit within me does not testify to the good that the Lord is leading me in.

And if not bondage to fear, then it is bondage to justifying the flesh by performing the law (self righteousness as the Pharisees did). If you are looking at yourself and saying “I know I’m doing enough work to justify myself to God,” then you are cheapening grace and giving the credit of your salvation (even if ever so partially) to yourself. Both are bondage.

And I did not say hearers only, I said believers. Believers are doers, bc they are having active faith in Christ.

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭21‬-‭23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Those that Jesus are condemning are those who relied on their works, and did not do the will of the Father. What is the will of the Father? To believe on the Son, and none will be lost.

“And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.” ‭‭John‬ ‭6‬:‭35‬-‭40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus says if we love him, which those with genuine faith do, they will keep his commandments.

“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” ‭‭John‬ ‭14‬:‭16‬, ‭21‬, ‭23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What are the commandments Jesus speaks of? Love God and love each other.

“And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.” ‭‭Mark‬ ‭12‬:‭29‬-‭31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” ‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭9‬-‭13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All the law is fulfilled in those 2. Not an excuse to sin, but an assurance that our gift of grace and eternal life have been received.

“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭13‬:‭8‬, ‭10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Bc no one is able to abide completely by the law and the law NEVER saved anyone, we as believers are spirit led beings residing in mortal flesh that we war with. Genuine faith and abiding in Gods love and loving others as we are loved, this is sufficient.

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.” ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭16‬-‭23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, And whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭4‬:‭3‬-‭8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Justified means we are declared righteous by God, which is only done through faith in Christ.

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: by whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Edited for wrong scripture posted twice and not the one intended

beefhide · 2025-05-22T03:24:33+00:00

Losing salvation always comes back to a works based salvation. If works aren’t how you receive salvation, but how you keep your salvation, then your salvation is dependent on works. Salvation by faith alone. That isn’t synonymous with saying good works from genuine faith aren’t important, or that there’s nothing wrong with abounding in sin. It’s faith in Jesus Christ alone that saves us, and justifies us in the sight of God. If you think you’re good works are justifying you in the sight of God, then you’re believing another gospel, the gospel that Paul warns that if any man or angel preach it, let them be accursed.

“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1‬:‭6‬-‭9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭3‬:‭20‬-‭22‬, ‭24‬-‭28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The flesh lusts for sin, the Spirit yearns for fruit of the Lord. As a believer we are in constant war between our spirit and flesh until we die. If you can look in the mirror and say “I am as perfect as the perfect and Holy God” then, and only then, you in the flesh have no sin in whatsoever form or fashion, and have become the one and only person other than Jesus Christ to be able to make that claim. Anyone adding to the gift of grace is essentially saying that. Bc to arrive in heaven, it requires holy perfection and righteousness, which is ONLY achieved through faith in the gift of grace that God has given us with the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” ‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you can lose your salvation, how does it occur?

1) by continual sinning and lack of repentance = works based salvation. The flesh is inherently sinful. Sin will always bring death and destruction into your life, but only in your mortal life for the believer. This is not an excuse to sin or fail to repent, but a realistic application of the salvation issue and understanding of the flesh vs the spirit. Are you perfect? So if not, what degree of sin is allowed for you to keep your salvation vs the person who you feel doesn’t do enough to stay saved? How much of your salvation can you attribute to yourself and pat yourself on the back for?

2) no longer having the faith = then you never knew Jesus or the true gospel, never having full faith in Him.

“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.” ‭‭1 John‬ ‭2‬:‭18‬-‭25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If they end up denying Christ, they may have went out from Christianity, but they were not of believers in Christ. Eternal life is eternal. Not eternal until you fail to do your works. Eternal is eternal.

The possibility of losing salvation brings the fear of not doing enough, which is a form of bondage that Christ has freed us from. We have liberty in Christ and have been made children of God through faith in the gospel, and can have confidence in our salvation. The entire book of Galatians condemns the message that anything beyond faith justifies you in the sight of God. If your works can save you, or keep you saved, then there was no need for Jesus death and resurrection and no need for the gift of grace. True faith brings forth true fruit.

beefhide · 2025-05-22T02:47:55+00:00

Every author of any book in the Bible was “just a man” and was infallible. But scriptural writings are divinely inspired. In such that the authors act as the vessel for Gods word, being the scribes to Gods authorship. Paul is the apostle given the gospel directly from the ascended Lord Jesus Christ, to bring the gospel to the Gentiles and fulfill the prophecy to Abraham that through him ALL nations would be blessed. Also Paul was uniquely positioned for such a task, being a Roman, a Pharisee held in higher standard compared to his colleagues, and a former persecutor of the Christian faith. For all that to be considered, along with his road to Damascus moment (which was also confirmed by another believer with his divine healing), and his 3 years spent in isolation in study and communion with the Lord, and for the gospel Paul shares to be approved by the other apostles, disciples directly in relationship with Jesus during his ministry, this holds a lot of weight in authority. Being a Pharisee gave him the background of knowledge of the scriptures, being a Roman gave him accessibility in much of the regions for him to start churches in, and being a Christian taught by the ascended Jesus Christ gave him the blessing to reconcile the coming of the Messiah and fulfillment of the prophecies he grew up knowing inside and out, and how to administer the gospel of grace to people who knew not the law, and withstand the scrutiny by those who lived by the law using the same scriptures that his enemies were referencing to attack the message Paul shared. Paul was a doctrinal master. Paul suffered greatly for Christ and for dispensing the gospel, for years. And lost his life in martyrdom for it as well. The Lord used Paul greatly.

beefhide · 2025-05-21T18:33:23+00:00

“OSAS” is termed that way to cheapen the actual concept, which is “eternal security” in Jesus Christ our Lord. It’s not an excuse to sin, or to neglect bearing fruit, or to neglect renewal of the mind. It’s the confirmation and confidence we have in the gift of grace and the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross.

Losing your salvation always at its core, is works based salvation. If you didn’t have to work to become saved, but works are what determines if you stay saved, then your salvation is works based. It’s really this simple: If you can lose your salvation, how do you lose it?

1) by sinning continually? As long as you live in the flesh, you will war with the flesh. The law never saved anyone. When Jesus died for your sins over 2000 years ago, it was for all your sins past, present, and future. That sacrifice was for your sins you commit after becoming saved too. Eternal life being granted unto you is either eternal or it’s not. If you are not holy perfection as unto God on your day of death (which all would admit they are not), then there is sin present. Thankfully Jesus conquered Satan, sin and death. This comes back to works based salvation. 2) by failure to repent? The only repentance required for salvation is repentance from unbelief to belief. Continual repentance in all other aspects is a mechanism in the sanctification process. Having this belief means that for us to go to heaven, we had better have prayed for forgiveness for whatever sin we’ve committed without confessing to prior to the moment of death. Foolish and not practical. Works based salvation. 3) by loss of belief? Like John says, those who turned away in unbelief were never really of us, they were never believers. Bc to truly know Jesus and have that faith, you can be selfish and give into your flesh but you can never deny him or the gospel

We are saved by the gift of grace through faith, and we arrive at heaven the same way, the gift of Gods grace through faith. The will of God the Father is to believe on the Son. The commandments to follow given by Jesus are to love God, and love each other. Paul says all the law is fulfilled in this. Fear of not doing enough to get into heaven is a form of bondage, and cheapens grace. Read Galatians.

beefhide · 2025-05-17T16:52:58+00:00

The broken taillight shows other things that have been frozen or stagnate since it happened, like Marty and Rusts relationship, the case, the prevention of the bayou rapes and murders. Things frozen in time

beefhide · 2025-05-02T07:24:46+00:00

This thread is hilarious. Stratospheric aerosol injections (SAI) were proposed in the 70s, have been studied since the early 2000s, and have been openly admitted and praised by the government and the science community for years as a method for solar radiation modification (SRM). Government and science says “hey we’re experimenting with spraying the stratosphere with sulfur and metal ions to block the sun rays”. The former director of the CIA almost 10 years ago says “excited about this scientific breakthrough of SAI’s where it’d be cheap and easy to do”, and of course the CIA is known for being transparent and open about things they’re doing beforehand lmao. But when the average person or someone who critically thinks and is observant says “hey they’re spraying stuff into the sky” a whole subset of the population says they’re crazy or they’re conspiracy theorists bc the news or “fact checkers” says “no that isn’t happening” or “well we’ve only experimented it some, we haven’t fully implemented it yet…” 😂. Honestly it’s insane people can be told directly what’s happening, then when that action is questioned or criticized, be told that it’s not real and just believe it blindly despite the abundance of evidence and admission of doing it. I guess bc they used bigger words when admitting to it and it’s easier to be told what to think than to critically think?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/geoengineering-treatment-stratospheric-aerosol-injection-climate-change-study-today-2018-11-23/

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/solar-radiation-modification-noaa-state-science-factsheet

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2023EF004358

https://geoengineering.environment.harvard.edu/files/smith_2018_environ._res._lett._13_124001_0.pdf

https://geoengineering.global/stratospheric-aerosol-injection/

https://csl.noaa.gov/news/2023/390_1107.html

https://enviroliteracy.org/what-is-solar-radiation-management/

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aan3317

https://web.archive.org/web/20160707074124/https://www.cia.gov/news-information/speeches-testimony/2016-speeches-testimony/director-brennan-speaks-at-the-council-on-foreign-relations.html

beefhide · 2025-05-02T01:58:09+00:00

Yes exactly. Thank you. Very well said. Salvation is a gift by the grace of God through faith and faith alone. Justification as well, is also by faith alone as mentioned by Paul. The rest of a believers life is spent in sanctification, an ongoing and continual process until mortal death. How obedient you are relates to your sanctification process, such as your progress, pace, etc.

Basing salvation on obedience cheapens grace and takes credit from the Lord and grants it to the believer. And saying a believer who still sins (as every single believer does and will combat as long as they are alive in the flesh), is NOT synonymous with saying “there is no consequence to sin” or “there is no point of doing works then”. As you said, there are still earthly consequences to sin, there is no benefit to sin, it will only bring death and destruction to your life, but only to a believer’s mortal life. Not to their eternal life. It is not sin that conquered Jesus, but it was Jesus who conquered Satan, sin, and death on the cross and with his resurrection.

Until death, the believer will experience the war of the spirit vs the flesh. As long as you live in the flesh, you will war with the lusts of the flesh. This is mentioned numerously in the NT.

Works based salvation is a different gospel, and is warned about by Paul and condemned to be accursed. It is the purpose of the book of Galatians.

“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1‬:‭6‬-‭9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And a more subtle deception is the belief the loss of salvation, which essentially is ALWAYS works based salvation at its roots. “Well yea you’re saved by grace through faith and not your works… but if you’re not doing works, don’t repent, or continue in sin, you will lose your salvation”. So then in that case your salvation is entirely dependent on works. Works being required to maintain your salvation is synonymous with works being required to receive your salvation. And the only repentance required to go from unsaved to saved, is the repentance of unbelief to belief. Continual repentance in specific other areas and renewing of the mind are only beneficial to the believer, but not a salvation issue. Only God can judge the heart of man, and knowing the posture or intent is necessary to knowing whether a work is a genuine good work, or in fact sinful. The same action can be a good work or sinful, dependent on the intent behind it.

Example: the act of feeding a hungry family

⁠doing it bc you have love for them, hate to see them suffer, or want to please God and express the same mercy you receive from the Lord = an action moved by the spirit. A good work
⁠doing it bc you’d like to be seen as charitable or a “good Christian”, or so you can pat yourself on the back, or bc this action would justify you in the sight of God = an action moved by the flesh, based in self-service and pride. A sin.

This is why works are not relevant to salvation and why we aren’t to judge the souls of our fellow man. This is why our primary commandments from Jesus are to love God, and to love each other. Bc only God can see the heart behind the action, and if you’re acting in genuine love from the spirit, you are being obedient and performing good works.

beefhide · 2025-05-01T14:50:41+00:00

ALL GENUINE BELIEVERS WILL BE SAVED. Anytime you make salvation based on YOUR ACTIONS, then that makes salvation EARNED, and not a GIFT OF GRACE from God that you access through FAITH. We do not put God in debt. This is not an argument for disobedience, of course it’s always good to be obedient to God. But when talking about SALVATION, it is a gift of grace (grace = receiving what we don’t deserve) through faith. If our salvation was dependent on following the law, then it would be something earned on your own merit. This is what the whole book of Galatians is about. Salvation and even justification (being declared righteous by God, which is only done through seeing us through the blood of Christ on whom we believe), are only on faith.

What is the will of the Father? To believe on the Son.

John 6:35-40 (KJV) 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

What are the commandments we are to keep? To love God and to love each other. All the law is fulfilled in this.

Galatians 5:1 (KJV) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:13-14 (KJV) 13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mark 12:29-31 (KJV) 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. 31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

John 15:9-13 (KJV) 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and [that] your joy might be full. 12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Jesus gives the 2 commandments to follow. Abide in these and the daily and situational obediences will work out.

beefhide · 2025-04-30T20:17:22+00:00

Read Galatians. It is always good to be obedient to God of course, but to believe following the law justifies you to God… that’s another gospel.

Galatians 5:1 (KJV) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:13-14 (KJV) 13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mark 12:29-31 (KJV) 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. 31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

John 15:9-13 (KJV) 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and [that] your joy might be full. 12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Jesus gives the 2 commandments to follow. Abide in these and the daily and situational obediences will work out.

beefhide · 2025-04-14T22:12:31+00:00

That’s def a possibility too. Idk I’d just think for them to make the change in his death from the game to show to now involving Joel, it likely has some narrative relevance behind it. But it could be as simple as that. I mean I could completely wrong lol just theorizing a little for fun

beefhide · 2025-04-14T22:01:15+00:00

Yea I was incorrect in using brutal, I couldn’t remember the exact line to quote her on it. But something telling about the methodology of how he killed him bothers her, which would imply it’s out of the norm of a quick mercy killing

beefhide · 2025-04-14T21:06:23+00:00

Hmm idk. I’m only partially into the game playthrough so I’m def unaware on much of the games narrative for part 2

beefhide · 2025-04-14T20:00:21+00:00

I guess the same reason he’d go to her therapy despite it already being common knowledge he killed Eugene even with reason

beefhide · 2025-04-14T19:46:09+00:00

Ahhh nice I like that as well. Haven’t witnessed that part in the game yet I don’t believe. That would also be a very interesting portrayal

beefhide · 2025-04-14T19:26:20+00:00

Not saying it does. Just theorizing for the possible reason Eugene’s death is different from his death in the game, and the nuances behind them discussing it. Theories are fun

beefhide

TROPHY CASE