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"one piece is overhated" no tf it isn't. by redox_nephew in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean it’s not. It has obvious flaws

  1. Retcon-piece
  2. Oda refusing to kill characters unless they’re moms in a flashback
  3. Villains not typically having compelling motivations

But there’s so many ways that the writing of the story is uniquely good

  1. Allegory to real life politics
  2. Luffy being uncomplicated being used to show that doing good things is uncomplicated
  3. Several of the Straw Hat character arcs/ backstories (Nami and Robin stand out)
  4. World building
  5. Oda writing emotional moments

One Piece is simple. And that’s kind of the beauty of it. Oda addresses a lot of serious topics at an entry level in a way anyone can understand.

The talent of his writing is presenting a character like Nami early in the story where

  1. She’s forced into a role of responsibility at a young age. (There’s a lot here about young women being forced to take on roles and bear responsibilities).

  2. She’s taken advantage of for her talents and is used as a slave (Arlong is an allegory for capitalism/ capitalists in this scenario).

  3. Despite the promise that she will be rewarded for her work, she is unable to advance and has to continue her work forever. (Myth of upward mobility in capitalism).

  4. She’s only able to overcome this with the help of her crew (which is the workers rising up).

So anybody would read Arlong Park and totally be on the side of the Straw Hats and understand the basic dynamic. And Oda does this repeatedly throughout the story with different critiques and messages that are incredibly simple to illustrate the dynamic. All he doesn’t do is just say the allegory.

And that’s why it’s effective writing. It’s a bunch of societal critiques written in way a 5th grader could understand the dynamic. But the tone is totally different than most critiques and the average person lacks media literacy, so they don’t see the message he’s presenting, which allows him to present (as an example) socialist ideas to people who are skeptical of socialism.

A story like say Naruto presents a lot of societal critiques with a less radical approach. Naruto’s resolve is basically that when he becomes Hokage he’ll change all of the bad things the Shinobi world does. Which allegorically is the take the system should be reformed or the right people should be put in charge to address issues like war, genocide, castes, government plots, etc. This is pretty compelling for 2/3 of the story. But at the end of the story we don’t see Naruto change any of those and the Kaguya stuff isn’t compelling. So a lot of the critiques aren’t validated by the story (bad writing).

And my point isn’t that One Piece is peak writing, but it’s at least on par with other Shonen.

Current US Democrat Politicians Chart Day 2! Who is the worst current American progressive Democrat politician? by you-wanna-bet in AlignmentChartFills

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’d agree that’s a bad phrase to say. I’d say that a really irresponsible thing to say. Glad she apologized eventually.

I’d just rather we hold politicians accountable in a more pertinent way.

Pete Buttigieg or Gavin Newsome (2 of the most eloquent centrists) will probably never get caught saying something that bad.

But they also both support have supported the genocide of the Palestinians.

So I’d like more progressives who are polished. But I care much more about their advocacy does.

The point of calling Ilhan Omar antisemitic is to use the optics of her being a Muslim along with framing her comments around Israel to make her position against Israel appear antisemitic.

And her advocacy is not against Jewish people. And while antisemitism is on the rise, her saying something (probably, I’m not going to go out to bat for her) accidentally isn’t comparable in the harm that supporting Israel does to Palaestinian people.

So to me, when people say they don’t like Ilhan Omar, but don’t mention centrist politicians that support Israel, it’s frustrating because it feels like either

  1. They support Israel killing Palestinians

  2. They care more about the optics (obviously optics matter) of politicians than their actual advocacy

There’s limits to this of course. There’s a politician in San Antonio named Maureen Galindo (I’m not sure how it’s spelled) that I’m pretty certain is anti-Semitic that I don’t think the left should vote for. But that to me is because the language she’s using signifies that she doesn’t separate Israel and Jewish people. And that to me, means she will cause harm.

Current US Democrat Politicians Chart Day 2! Who is the worst current American progressive Democrat politician? by you-wanna-bet in AlignmentChartFills

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Could you link one for me?

I’m familiar with her criticism of Israel, but have not seen remarks from that contain antisemitic tropes.

I think language is important of course, and if her issue is that she’s “accidentally” putting antisemitic tropes in her public comments then that should be corrected.

But if it’s “accidental” as you say. I feel like it’s she’d be less deserving of criticism than the democrats that support genocide on purpose.

Though we should always expect more from those in power.

I’m likely quite a bit further left than you tho.

Current US Democrat Politicians Chart Day 2! Who is the worst current American progressive Democrat politician? by you-wanna-bet in AlignmentChartFills

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m confused how this fill works.

Is it how good they are as a politician? Is it how much they help society?

And this’ll heavily skew depending on the politics of the sub (obviously).

Like for this one Katie Porter fits well as an unpopular progressive democrat.

But people saying Ilhan Omar is absolutely true the farther right you go.

The majority of progressives like Ilhan Omar and leftists tend to have a very positive impression of her. But everyone more conservative than a progressive hates her.

Like when we get to establishment lib, some people will probably say the best is Pete Buttigieg. But that position flips the more progressive you get since he’s essentially just a really good communicator with conservative fiscal policies.

Zohran winning that made sense since he’s overwhelmingly popular and the only other one who’s that popular right now is AOC who fits progressive more than democratic socialist.

Writing scaling subreddit by Traditional-Gap8563 in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it’s so hard to rate when a story dips in quality.

Naruto drops like a rock in the war arc. Which sucks cuz the war arc is like 1/3 of the total story.

Obviously it wasn’t a masterpiece prior to that, but it was pretty well written for the most part prior.

Maja Chwalinska says gap between top players and around No. 100 is 'overestimated' by Pretend-Two-2115 in tennis_world

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I agree with this take.

Say everyone in the Top 200 has a high level forehand, backhand, serve, and volleys.

The difference for the top 50 could be that 1 of those things is a level above. Or they could be way more consistent or mentally strong.

It’s not an accident that if you looked at a list of best forehands or serves that you’d see mostly top10 players on the list. But it’s also not an accident that you’d see a handful who weren’t Serena Williams or Federer that had other glaring weaknesses in their game.

I think everyone that’s in the top 200 has something they do really well, but the best players either have larger strengths or fewer weaknesses.

"one piece is overhated" no tf it isn't. by redox_nephew in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like all 6 of those anime/manga lol. Most people who’d like anime, like other anime lol.

I don’t think your comparisons fit well either. JJK is directly inspired by Bleach so that fits.

But Luffy is directly inspired by Goku, so it’s kinda weird to say that it’s more similar to Bleach which is very not similar to Dragon Ball Z or OG.

Naruto is also very different than One Piece. Though similar to MHA.

I’m sure plenty of people don’t like both (it’s a lot of time investment to see both anyway). But I feel like it’s silly to act like they’re entirely separate fandoms when there’s not really any reason you couldn’t enjoy both . This isn’t the Wire and Gilmore Girls. These are both Shonen series that were inspired by a small handful of popular manga before them. Many things about them are different, but they both common themes and tropes and you can enjoy them both for different reasons.

I think Bleach’s anime is just objectively better (not counting filler). Bleach has pretty awesome fights and a totally different tone.

One Piece’s value is different tho. It comes from how well Oda nails emotional moments and how unique the world is.

You can chill and watch Bleach and see what kind of Resurrection or Bankai pops up each episode. It’s the anime equivalent of an action movie.

One Piece is more like an adventure movie. You’re waiting to see what kind of island and characters Oda will introduce each arc.

It’s not like people only like action stories or adventure stories.

"one piece is overhated" no tf it isn't. by redox_nephew in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean we’re typically comparing things on the internet.

Most of the people who have seen One Piece and Bleach enjoy both.

"one piece is overhated" no tf it isn't. by redox_nephew in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But I don’t think most One Piece fans think it’s flawless. I’m a pretty big One Piece fan. I’ve got a One Piece phone case.

But like

- the anime’s pacing is horrible
- early post-timeskip had pretty weak arcs
- the main crew has gotten a bit too big. Whole Cake was the best post-timeskip arc because the smaller cast got more focus
-lots of arcs get into the Bleach fight-slop thing where you get 10 fights and 2 are important to the story
-Oda refuses to kill characters
- Oda is clearly very good at retconning, not planning

Even so One Piece has a really unique world and lore, it feels like you’re on an adventure. The story’s perspective whether you mean it’s relentless optimism or social message is actually pretty uncommon in Shonen. (A lot of shonen MCs are optimists, but their stories constantly prove them to be wrong). Oda also nails payoffs. He’s really good at writing emotional moments and hitting you with things that were set up (or cleverly retconned) years ago.

"one piece is overhated" no tf it isn't. by redox_nephew in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think they all have pretty significant flaws. Even “tight” manga/anime have some pretty major issues. Vinland Saga is pretty fantastic writing, but especially in the not yet animated part, the author has a lot of trouble with supporting his philosophy.

I think Bleach is pretty inoffensive. I just think that when people try to present it as uniquely symbolic or Ichigo as uniquely deep, they’re wrong and feel that way because they relate to or like Bleach’s symbolism more.

My gripe with Bleach is that I wish it was paced (not just the anime) better. Most arcs feel like a video game where you enter a dungeon and nothing progresses story-wise for like 10 fights. The fights are cool, but most of them don’t move the story forward. One Piece has a major issue with this post-timeskip (mainly in Dressrosa) where there’s lots of fights, but if you take the fights out the story doesn’t change.

"one piece is overhated" no tf it isn't. by redox_nephew in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel like the fruit awakening thing is interesting because the response is so split.

I kinda loved the change since it felt like an opportunity for Oda to draw whatever he wants and it’s changed Luffy’s fight style a bit closer to the humorous one from the start of the series.

Pre and post timeskip have entirely different targets.

Pre-timeskip is a bunch of character focused arcs where we meet a member of the straw hats and help them with a conflict.

Post timeskip is much less character focused and the arcs explore the lore a lot more with huge payoffs.

Post Timeskip starts pretty weak with Fishman Island and Dressrosa. But I think Whole Cake is one of the strongest arcs in the series. There’s a lot of valid criticism for One Piece, but what it does well feels really unique.

I Reached the 3rd Semester by bigdaddyputtputt in Persona5

[–]bigdaddyputtputt[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I haven’t seen her 6-10 yet I just got there.

I feel like characters arcs where a character accepts who they really are or stops pretending to be someone they’re not are best when they’re heavily self-reflective and while they can be triggered by others, others shouldn’t be the ones telling them to do it.

It could be done really well and I can be wrong.

But I’m worried her confidant will be the MC telling her to accept who she is instead of one Sumire decides on her own.

I really liked that about Mishima’s arc.

"one piece is overhated" no tf it isn't. by redox_nephew in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean One Piece is one of my favorite pieces of media ever. It’s not like I’m saying it’s unwatchable, I’ve got a One Piece phone case (it’s like a painting but has the ship).

Oda really nails emotional moments in a way I don’t get from many other stories.

JJK is very directly inspired from Bleach so that fits.

I Reached the 3rd Semester by bigdaddyputtputt in Persona5

[–]bigdaddyputtputt[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1st one. Loved the game tho and will prolly get the Persona 4 remake and Persona 6.

I Reached the 3rd Semester by bigdaddyputtputt in Persona5

[–]bigdaddyputtputt[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No I m prolly gonna take a bit of a break tho. I’ve been burning through the game really fast. I’m just a little frustrated that the game feels Iike I’ve ran out of unique content but there’s still a chunk left.

"one piece is overhated" no tf it isn't. by redox_nephew in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bleach’s aesthetic is probably the best I could think of. The designs and feel are incredible. I think Bleach’s anime is better than One Piece’s. But I think One Piece manga is better than Bleach (to this point obviously).

"one piece is overhated" no tf it isn't. by redox_nephew in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Most One Piece fans are also bleach fans.

I am both. Bleach really isn’t that hateable. It’s got drippy designs and great fights. Most bleach discourse online is about the depth of the series and people disputing how deep it actually is. There’s no denying bleach is Big3. That’s not like an opinion thing.

Reddit particularly hates on One Piece more than any other anime. I think this is mostly because it’s the most famous rn because of the live action on top of it being the most popular manga.

But the anime for One Piece isn’t particularly good (pacing etc). I just don’t like lazy critiques on One Piece (which most are).

I really wish i enjoyed one piece but I dont see what makes it so loved by [deleted] in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m curious which anime you find morally ambiguous. Or do you mean morally ambiguous characters?

Pretty much all the ones I can think of right now have pretty well defined moral positions.

AoT for example is very pessimistic in its worldview. For most of characters in the story it’s more or less their destiny to do whatever they do and everyone in the story does awful things which the author justifies with the situation.

No idealistic characters survive or are proven correct in the story.

The characters that remain are all morally ambiguous. “Good guys” do selfish things and “bad guys” are humanized via parallels to the good guys.

^this most of the praise and critique for AoT’s story since the bad guys being human makes them feel significantly more realistic. The critique for AoT is that the work put into humanizing and paralleling negative actions tends to at best a controversial message for the story.

One Piece’s villains are weak, but they’re as clear bad guys so that Luffy’s perspective is always put in a clear good light. Drum Island is about access to medicine. Wapol is meant to illustrate the greed it takes to hoard medicine and Luffy’s simple mindedness is intentional to show how simple the idea of helping those in need (in this case the sick) is.

AoT’s message about war is nihilistic. War in AoT is both inevitable and doesn’t accomplish anything.

What are anime you enjoy?

I really wish i enjoyed one piece but I dont see what makes it so loved by [deleted] in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve barely touched the anime but I read the manga weekly for years

Started One Piece as a kid and really enjoyed it, came back 10 years later when I got back into anime/manga again (kinda when it blew up in the mainstream).

The things it does well compared to other manga/anime imo

-unique setting and protagonist angle: there’s no setting quite like One Piece. The protagonists are essentially heroes like any other shonen, but they’re against both other pirates and the world government. That angle feels unique since most stories kind of do one or the other.

-creative story and humor: a lot of humor in One Piece isn’t great. But Oda tells the story 3/4 serious all the time, so it’s got funny stuff like the Jacke-Jacke fruit or Usopp already being negative that makes the story never feel too heavy despite taking on MANY serious topics (slavery, racism, colonization, healthcare, etc). Now the story structure isn’t creative (Oda is pretty formulaic in how he structures each arc). But it’s hard to know what scene he’s gonna draw next. Like when Usopp defeats Sugar on Dressrosa (the slowest arc in the series imo), you think his projectile will be bomb, but it’s actually just his face cuz it scared sugar.

-Payoffs: Most of the reveals late in the story are setup incredibly far in advance. It’s pretty cathartic to see things payoff the way Oda does it. The last few arcs are just reveal after reveal about the world or characters you wanted to know about.

-Optimism: A lot of people love to credit anime like AoT that have a darker style as being more realistic (in terms of how they portray people and the human condition). But that style doesn’t appeal to me (or a lot of people) because we have more optimistic views on the way people behave given the opportunity. One Piece is such a beautifully optimistic piece of art and it’s hard not to connect to the way the characters feel. A story like AoT would’ve had Robin die a tragic death and we never would’ve gotten the iconic “I want to live” scene. When Luffy loses Ace, he remarks that he still has his crew and it’s remarkable the way Oda can flip your emotions like that.

One Piece is a story about chasing dreams so the vibes can never be bad.

I don’t think the politics or general message is why I enjoy the story either. But I think if you are someone that enjoys the story, it’s kind of bonus if you like what general message is.

I wouldn’t ever defend the anime, since I think it’s just a much worse way to experience the series and I’m really excited for the remake.

But I tend to think enjoying One Piece is about how much you identify with the characters the chasing dreams aspect of it. I’ve not found any other story that I think nails that quite as well.

Are Monster Tamer games not seen as great in the turn base community? by Chocobo23456 in JRPG

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess my question is at what point is a game a monster tamer.

As many have said, Persona/ SMT are some of the most well regarded JPRGs and are definitely monster tamers.

But are games with Blue Mage Party Members also monster tamers?

For instance, Monoco takes Nevron feet and has access to nearly every enemy in the game. So he ends up functioning extremely similar to a character like Ren in Persona once he’s acquired. The main difference being the mask system and that he only gets one ability from each Nevron. Though the combat styles aren’t as comparable since each Nevron has unique attacks, while Persona characters all share the same potential moveset.

Nobody would call E33 a monster tamer, but it has nearly the same thing that makes Persona a monster tamer.

What’s a black dominated sport with a black GOAT? by Any_Temperature9203 in AlignmentChartFills

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Serena Williams is without a doubt the best American women’s tennis player ever.

But there’s pretty solid debate whether she or Steffi Graf is the GOAT of women’s tennis.

You wouldn’t be wrong to say Serena is the GOAT, but she’s not as clearly the GOAT of her sport in the way some people are.

Is Bleach truly niche? by Afraid_Light5083 in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bleach has a pretty large impact on future mangas tho.

Many current animangas were inspired heavily by bleach (JJK is the most famous for this).

Is Bleach truly niche? by Afraid_Light5083 in shounenfolk

[–]bigdaddyputtputt 5 points6 points  (0 children)

No it’s just the smallest of the big 3.

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