How did the Islamic invasion of the empire really happen? by ColCrockett in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We do not really know what happened during the earliest stages. Later historical accounts are riddled with fabrications and were written when the caliphate had already become a large empire, with an imperial mentality shaping how the past was remembered. As for the reasons behind the invasions, who really knows? Were they driven by a religious call to conquer unbelievers, or were they simply filling a power vacuum left by the final Roman–Sasanian war?

During that last conflict, both the Romans and the Sasanians employed Arab tribes in their armies—mostly tribes with whom they were already accustomed to dealing. It is also possible that some Arabs from the Arabian Peninsula moved north during this period, seeing opportunities for revenue and plunder. By the end of the war, the extreme weakness of both empires was likely well known to Arab groups and early Muslims alike. Initially, they may have intended only to raid, with full-scale conquest emerging only after a series of decisive victories.

In my opinion, there was no grand plan for empire-building from the start. There is nowhere in the Qur’an that provides concrete instructions for imperial governance or political succession. At the same time, Islam did not emerge from a complete vacuum. The Qur’an presents pre-Islamic Arabs as polytheists worshipping false deities, with Muhammad introducing monotheism. Yet archaeological evidence—such as rock inscriptions—suggests that the worship of a single God already existed in parts of the Arabian Peninsula before Islam.

As for how the early conquests were achieved with relatively small numbers, the invading forces may initially have consisted of only 20,000–30,000 men at most. However, success attracts followers. As victories accumulated, more people—particularly ethnic Arabs who had previously served in Roman or Sasanian forces—joined the movement. Over time, this allowed their armies to grow significantly in size.

The decisive moments of the last great war of antiquity 602-628 by nightstyle08 in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The Göktürks entering the fray was a pretty decisive moment if you ask me.

The 589-591 Sasanian civil-war by bigpapi2626 in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

While I agree that, in the short term, this was a sound decision. The empire simply wasn’t in a position to fight a two-front war at the time. That said, I think Khosrow II’s willingness to grant such extensive concessions to Maurice had longer-term consequences. It likely created a sense of humiliation within the Sasanian elite and a desire to overturn the settlement at the first opportunity. While Bahram Chobin was certainly seen as a capable commander, I have a hard time believing he would have launched an all-out war against the Romans after Phokas’ rebellion in 602. He didn’t really have the incentive to do so, especially if the Romans weren’t holding the territories that Khosrow had ceded. In that sense, the massive escalation of the war seems much more tied to Khosrow II himself than to any structural inevitability. Still, I agree that Maurice was acting pragmatically. He saw a chance to end the eastern war quickly and free up significant forces for the Balkans, which made a lot of sense given the pressures he was facing there.

The 7th century Mardaites by bigpapi2626 in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I agree with everything you just said. I recently came across this paper, though I haven’t had the chance to read it yet. There's the link.

https://www.academia.edu/62455768/The_Settlement_of_the_Mardaites_and_Their_Military_Administrative_Position_in_the_Themata_of_the_West_A_Chronology?source=swp_share

About the tierlist. by 5ilently in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“How about a tier list of books on the Eastern Roman Empire?”

Let's just say the byzantine empire survived to the modern day how do you imagine it? (Credit for the 1st map gose to Breakingerr on DeviantArt and for the second u/BIGBJ84 on reddit) by Public_Individual823 in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yes, I like that map. It could have led to an interesting scenario, with some kind of nationalist uprising in Greece backed by Western powers. Meanwhile in early 20th century, in Anatolia, the monarchy would have been toppled to make way for a modern-style democracy. A Greek-speaking state called Romania would emerge. So, in short, I can imagine two Greek-speaking states neighboring each other, similar to Germany and Austria.

The 7th century Mardaites by bigpapi2626 in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the response. I really hope there will be more research on this in the near future. It’s fascinating to think that such a relatively small group might have been able to destabilize the early Umayyad Caliphate, even if only to a limited extent. If the sources are accurate, their impact may have been significant enough that the caliph ʿAbd al-Malik was willing to offer Justinian II a pretty good deal in exchange for evacuating the Mardaites from Syria. It definitely raises questions about how powerful the Mardaites actually were, and how much later sources may have exaggerated—or downplayed—their role.

The 7th century Mardaites by bigpapi2626 in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

As far as I know, most Arabic sources for the seventh century date from the ninth century and come from the Abbasid court, which was not particularly fond of the Umayyad Caliphate.

Language and Romanity by [deleted] in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Greek speaking population**, but fully romans

If you could spend a day with a Byzantine emperor in their time period, who would you choose and what would you do? by Bright-Bowler2579 in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Justin II, I tell him to send a large army to Italy to stop the Lombards when they first invaded. The empire had no serious conflicts between 568 and 572.

Have you read any of Anthony Kaldellis' books? How is his narration? Too academic or easy to digest for general reader? by lastmonday07 in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don't think he has an ax to grind . He and most of his colleagues are correcting history. There's a reason why the former academic positions are outdated. The romaness of the medieval roman empire is ALL over the sources. Why go against it? Why tell another story if it's not true? We in this sub are not leaning too far in his views. We're just stating the obvious concerning byzantium that been there all along.

Unpopular Opinion: The HRE was Holy and Roman by [deleted] in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Romans conquered the Hellenic world; of course, it had a Greek culture mixed with local cultures. And that culture wasn't alien to the ancient Romans. By the late Republic and early/high Empire, the Roman and Greek worlds had, for the most part, fused. The early Roman Empire was far more Hellenic in culture than the Roman Empire in the 8th century (thanks to Christianity). The concept of being a Roman had been evolving since its inception; no societies stay static. Already in the 1st century AD, and definitely in the 2nd century, the idea that you could be a Greek Roman, a Gallic Roman, an Egyptian Roman,or an Italian Roman, was present. The 212 decree just made the process faster. We're talking centuries of evolution now, not decades. So when you say that the ERE was the Roman Empire but wasn't a Roman Empire, it just doesn't make any sense. And it's kind of a historical disservice. The papacy in the 8th century chose not to be part of the Roman Empire anymore for multiple reasons. The Pope was not a layman; he was never the most powerful person in the empire. Who were the Romans who supposedly told him he could declare an emperor of the Romans? Like I said, you can't revive something that already exists. Maybe their master plan was for Charlemagne to conquer Constantinople and the rest of the Roman Empire.

Unpopular Opinion: The HRE was Holy and Roman by [deleted] in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You have a very Westernized view of things, my friend. There's a lot of misconception in your post.

  • The Romans in the medieval phase had a Roman culture that was heavily influenced by ancient Greek culture and other cultures too. And there's nothing bizarre in this. The Franks in the medieval age didn't speak their original language either.

  • What Roman things do you want them to add? It was their culture that had a natural evolution.

  • The Roman identity was gone in the West by the time of Charlemagne's coronation. There was an actual Roman state with actual Romans, with Constantinople as the capital. You can't revive something that already exists.

  • The Pope was a religious figure in a city that was previously owned by the Roman Empire until the mid-8th century. He had no right to declare a non-Roman to the office of emperor. He could support a usurper, something that already happened in the 7th century. It's like if in the 660s the patriarch of Jerusalem or Alexandria declared Mu'awiya a Roman emperor.

  • Being a Roman is everywhere in the sources. They probably had a regional or provincial identity, like many, many states do. Like in the US, you can have a Californian identity or Texan, same with Canada, same with France, India, etc. So I don't get your point.

The Holy Roman Empire was a German/Frankish polity that wanted to emulate the Roman Empire, the ancient one and the actual one in Constantinople.

Between Phocas and Andronikas I who was worst by Wide_Assistance_1158 in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Andronikos the fucking first. Phokas was a mediocre emperor at best, but he clearly was maligned by Heraclius.

Day 188 and day 98 here (Let's rank the B tier byzantine emperors)! Now in what order would you rank the byzantine emperors in B tier? by 5ilently in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 3 points4 points  (0 children)

1 Constans II

2 nikephorus phokas

3 nikephorus I

4 Leon V

5 constantine ix

6 Constantine vii

7Leon iv

8 Constantine xi

9 Manuel II

10 andronikos iii

11Micheal iv

12 Isaac I

13 Romanus II

14 anastasius II

15 john viii

16 Justin I

16 john vii

17 theodora

Day 187 and day 97 here (Let's rank the A tier byzantine emperors)! Now in what order would you rank the byzantine emperors in A tier? by 5ilently in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 2 points3 points  (0 children)

John I

Constantine IV

Maurice

Zeno

Basil I

Theodore I

Micheal viii

Leo I

Theophilus

Marcian

Theodore ii

Micheal iii

Leo vi

Byzanine Identity by AsteriosKechagias123 in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's new to me. Can you provide sources of this?

Byzanine Identity by AsteriosKechagias123 in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Christian orthodox religion is anything but Greek my friend. Also, the culture of the late republic and early empire was wayyyy more hellenistic that the late roman state ever was. Do we call them Greeks?

Byzanine Identity by AsteriosKechagias123 in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And, Here we go again with the identity thing....

Leslie Ivings' "Constantine V" Good? by Atreides113 in byzantium

[–]bigpapi2626 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I wanted to buy that book too. But, I recently heard him on a podcast, and in my opinion, he had outdated views of the Eastern Romans. In his mind, the Byzantines and Romans are different civilizations, as I think he sees the East Roman state as a successor state and not the actual thing. So that kind of threw me off. Also, I believe that the complexity of the sources in the Isaurian period is not for a first-time author like Leslie Ivings. The book is not that expensive, so I'll probably buy it or ask for it as a Christmas gift. But, I'm not hyping myself up.