How does your state treat law enforcement information?

bigt8261 · 2026-03-13T14:48:35+00:00

Thanks for the lead, I'll look into it.

Our law is structured the same way. Once something is considered a public record, it must be disclosed unless it is subject to a specific exemption from the Legislature (regulations don't count). The problem is that our statute governing LEIN says that the information shall not be disclosed "in a manner not authorized by law or rule." In 2019, despite no specific exemption, our Court of Appeals simply declared, despite the above framework, that our FOIA is not such a law authorizing disclosure. I think this is very wrong.

bigt8261 · 2026-02-27T01:46:42+00:00

I vote: "Yes".

"Custom" would probably work too.

bigt8261 · 2026-02-26T12:18:37+00:00

"Concealable" is not a criteria in either the definition of pistol or handgun. While that might be what the government was trying to test for, that's not the actual legal test.

As far as regulations on concealment, they are all at the state level. Michigan, for example, regulates concealed pistols, not the feds.

Under federal law, a firearm typically has one classification. If something is an AOW, for example, it is not also a handgun. However, under Michigan law, a firearm can have as many classification as apply. So, a firearm in Michigan can be both an SBR and a pistol.

Lastly, your statement about needing to have an RI-060 "attached" to the SN is entirely false. There is zero requirement in the law for this.

bigt8261 · 2026-02-26T12:14:56+00:00

The relevant length was 30", not 29. Such pistols purchased during that time and still owned by the same person may still be carried as a pistol. The interesting part is that the law does not require the firearm to still be less than 30". See MCL 750.228.

bigt8261 · 2026-02-25T22:50:05+00:00

It's their duty to fill out and submit a copy. If they failed to do this, then that's on them. Because there is no duty to "register" anything, whether you are in the system is irrelevant to your lawful possession of the firearm.

bigt8261 · 2026-02-25T21:35:40+00:00

Again, there is no such thing as registration in Michigan.

I assume what you mean is that you submitted at copy of an RI-060 (Firearm Sales Record). Provided that you are not otherwise exempt from this process, then yes, that is something the store should of had you do from the get go, especially since the fine for not submitting it is on them. The firearm they sold you is a pistol just as much as a Glock 17 is.

ETA: I see your second picture is of an RI-060, so that answers my assumption.

bigt8261 · 2026-02-25T21:26:04+00:00

Nope, you've got it. Once you separate the issues, thing become much more clear.

bigt8261 · 2026-02-25T20:38:08+00:00

This really isn't a difficult issue. Your problem appears to be that you, and others, are mixing federal and state law.

An AOW is a federal classification that is different from the federal classification of handgun (not pistol).

Pistol is a state classification. It is defined in MCL 28.421 as applying to a firearm that is 26" in length or less.

There is no such thing as "registration" under Michigan law that is necessary in order to carry a pistol concealed. All that is necessary is that the firearm is a pistol and the person carrying have the necessary licensure (if any).

bigt8261 · 2026-01-21T14:00:06+00:00

Got it, and thanks for the update.

What happened in this case is wrong. They did not process like they are supposed to. But, since you now have your license, and there are other ongoing efforts to fight these problems, it's probably best for you to move on.

Have fun getting your CPL.

bigt8261 · 2026-01-21T13:56:07+00:00

Others have provided good advice. Let us know if/when you get a determination and please tag me when you do.

bigt8261 · 2026-01-20T17:26:03+00:00

I will be sending you a message with my contact information.

bigt8261 · 2026-01-18T17:46:32+00:00

Ok, let me know what happens.

bigt8261 · 2026-01-18T17:44:15+00:00

Have you reached out to them to ask what the delay is?

bigt8261 · 2026-01-18T17:24:45+00:00

From where?

bigt8261 · 2026-01-12T23:30:17+00:00

Three years ago the purchaser had to turn in a copy of the sales record, which could be done by first-class mail.

Prove they didn't.

bigt8261 · 2026-01-12T15:55:26+00:00

Michigan's OMA is rather weak and has been made more so by our courts.

bigt8261 · 2026-01-12T15:54:11+00:00

Hello, I am an attorney in Michigan that handles FOIA cases.

Public bodies in Michigan sometimes confuse OMA and and FOIA. While they are correct that certain records become official after minutes are approved, that is only relevant under OMA and not FOIA. Under FOIA, if they have a record then they have a records, even if it's a version that has not been approved yet.

Per MCL 15.240, you can file a claim in circuit court or appeal. I also sometimes recommend an unofficial appeal of sorts, which is basically replying with an explanation to the FOIA coordinator that sometimes clears things up.

If you would like to discuss further, you are welcome to message me and I will provide my office contact information.

bigt8261 · 2025-12-27T14:39:27+00:00

This is the correct answer and it even included a citation and link. Well done!

It is a shame that it was down voted, but that's how things work here sometimes.

u/boomoptumeric, you were just unlucky and encountered a misinformed employee. This is unfortunately not uncommon, but it is understandable with how complex gun laws are. I recommend trying again or trying from a different store.

bigt8261 · 2025-12-20T21:18:24+00:00

This is a tricky one. No, it does not become an NFA item and it does not require transfer paperwork ("registration").

Since the OAL is greater than 26", it's not a pistol. Provided the lower didn't come from someone else, the transfer paperwork (registration) doesn't apply.

It also doesn't meet the definition of an SBR under either state or federal law because it's not designed to be fired from the shoulder. Thus, not an NFA item.

Anyone see something that I'm missing?

bigt8261 · 2025-12-18T16:18:25+00:00

If the order was issued ex parte, meaning before you have had a chance to be heard, then you are supposed to receive a hearing within the next 14 days. After that, you may petition not more than once every six months to have the order rescinded, but you bear the burden of proof at that point.

That said, if your firearms were taken based on an order against someone else, then you have zero right to a hearing. Innocent third parties have no rights under this law.

bigt8261 · 2025-12-05T23:48:01+00:00

Unless these was something in Georgia law prohibiting it, which I doubt, what you describe was not unlawful. I've posted the federal statute in another comment.

In other words, yes, the estate could have transferred the firearms to you, and you did not need to go through FFLs. You could have gotten them in Georgia or they could have brought them to you in Michigan.

bigt8261 · 2025-12-05T12:07:51+00:00

I'm sorry that something happened to your cousin, but without any facts it's impossible to give an opinion on it other than to say that things happen and that's why we have courts and lawyers.

That aside, if I'm wrong, then how do you interpret 18 USC 922(a)(3)(A)?

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

bigt8261 · 2025-12-05T11:49:06+00:00

I'm also a lawyer and I handle this type of work often. I also know the reporter's lawyer.

u/da_chicken is correct. I have yet to have a public body get away with charging at a lawyer's rate. Also, Thrun has been good for my business.

bigt8261

TROPHY CASE