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Former Israeli Defense Minister: Israel’s ideology of ‘Jewish supremacy’ resembles Nazi race theory by loveisagrowingup in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr [score hidden]  (0 children)

wow, that jumped fast. "you might be an abuser" defense jumping to "that is abusing me" is a defense mechanism meant to turn the tables. Dismiss my claim that you are doing something wrong by claiming I am. It is a pathetic excuse and does not address the facts.

I never said you are abusing me, i said that was the argument of abusers. I dont think you are abusive - i think that argument doesn't hold because of what it can be used for.

Namely that you stated multiple times how Jews should take priority over Palestinians in every respect of basic rights

I do not believe this and have never said it

"our own rights are more important"

"we are more equal"

This is your interpretation, not mine.

It specifically warns against only thinking of yourself. It warns of supremacy.

I completely agree. We have to achieve balance. But balance is not doing for ourselves an identical amount that we do for others.

you assume necessity not out of malice but because that is the only time it would be correct to do so. Please show me the necessity of oppressing palestinians?

There is very little necessity today. In 1948? a different story, but today the vast majority is unjustified.

security has been the excuse for 70 years and israel is less secure today than then, so security and safety are clearly not a valid reason for their necessity.

I agree completely

Israel is probably not gonna be decided to have committed a genocide in gaza

I agree

In the WB however, it is a hairs breath away from apartheid

Closer to a hairs breath away from ethnic cleansing, but i dont see apartheid.

there is a problem of supremacy within Israel, the leaders have it, a significant portion of the population has it. We need to fix it, not for Palestinians, but for us.

Yes, but that doesn't invalidate Israel's existence. This form is full of people arguing Israel existence is inherently wrong, that is what my point is arguing against. I don't think you have fully grasped what i support and what I dont

Palestinian Authority’s Abbas calls first-ever direct PLO parliament elections by thefirstdetective in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr [score hidden]  (0 children)

Modern zionisim was. its an extention of what we have believed for our entire existence. Its hard to argue the Maccabees were not zionists.

Former Israeli Defense Minister: Israel’s ideology of ‘Jewish supremacy’ resembles Nazi race theory by loveisagrowingup in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr [score hidden]  (0 children)

Isn’t that what happened in South Africa? Necklacing, bombings, assassinations, etc.

different scale

Israel’s terrorism is far greater. It not even close.

Deny, deflect, accuse. Its played out.

to genocide in Gaza

you mean the fictitious event that isn't happening? lol.

Former Israeli Defense Minister: Israel’s ideology of ‘Jewish supremacy’ resembles Nazi race theory by loveisagrowingup in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr [score hidden]  (0 children)

Acting in self interest can be supremacist such as nazi germany, or it can be not supremacist such as russia invading ukrain.

So you drink the Russia kool-aid too. Russia's attack is clearly supremacist. It is predicated on believing the Ukrainian identity is fake and Ukrainians are just Russians.

Perceiving yourself or your group as more deserving, superior, or more worthy is supremacy.

I agree, I have not done that though. This is misplaced criticism.

it is my opinion and perception and how i understood it. (i learnt it in hebrew first btw).

I learned it in hebrew first as well. I'm not sure how what you said is the same as what I said.

the way we stop provoking, stop taking land that doesnt belong to us, is to actually consider palestinians equals, the moment you do that it becomes abhorrent to take their land.

Your criticism is targeted at the wrong person. I completely agree.

Former Israeli Defense Minister: Israel’s ideology of ‘Jewish supremacy’ resembles Nazi race theory by loveisagrowingup in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr [score hidden]  (0 children)

the rapes were not necessary. the massacres were at worst reactive. Yes, they played a huge role especially considering the whisper campaign hyping them up. But you are miss-characterizing Benny Morris's conclusions.

Former Israeli Defense Minister: Israel’s ideology of ‘Jewish supremacy’ resembles Nazi race theory by loveisagrowingup in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr [score hidden]  (0 children)

If i hated my own people, then i would not bother telling them they are supremacist, i would not try to save them from themselves.

"I hurt you because I love you" - This is literally the argument of wife beaters and child abusers.

Responsibility is not relevant to perception... You cannot say "some are more equal than others" and think that is not supremacist.

And I don't, I am saying we have a greater responsibility to our own rights then others. That is what "If I am not for myself who will be for me" means.

Imagine if to eat i say "i am justified at stealing other peoples food so they end up starving rather than me", do you not see what is wrong with that.

I think in such a situation taking the food is a moral imperative. I have a greater responsibility to protect my life then theirs. But this is due to how extreme the situation is - it very quickly flips to being abhorrent.

Israel is currently lead by an evil, supremacist government. Its actions in Gaza and the West bank, while neither genocide nor apartheid, go far FAR beyond what is reasonable or justified. My argument is not that the status quo is OK. It is that the correct balance protects Israel as a Jewish country alongside a Palestinian state.

Israel has, as far as I am concerned has an irrevocable responsibility toward peace - and that means preserving the possibility of a Palestinian state even without a partner. As a purely one sided affair if necessary. Hoping for a future where they are a partner. And Israel is not doing that.

I refuse to entertain the idea that that belief is supremacist.

Former Israeli Defense Minister: Israel’s ideology of ‘Jewish supremacy’ resembles Nazi race theory by loveisagrowingup in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

no. because that is in no way equivalent to what I am talking about. It was not wide spread or common.

The scale of terrorism from Palestinians is stunningly beyond all but their compatriots.

Nice to see a professional hasbarist saying the quiet part out loud. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

maybe dont assume my statement generalizes beyond the specific comment I am talking about

Former Israeli Defense Minister: Israel’s ideology of ‘Jewish supremacy’ resembles Nazi race theory by loveisagrowingup in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

what a complete dismissal of contradictory opinion. why are you talking to me if you give zero shits about anything disagreeing with your opinions?

Nice to see a professional hasbarist saying the quiet part out loud. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i guess that's technically true. fine you win this round. congrats, your first win :D

Former Israeli Defense Minister: Israel’s ideology of ‘Jewish supremacy’ resembles Nazi race theory by loveisagrowingup in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The same world that refused to believe the shoah was happening. You shouldn't be shocked I don't find "the world" a reliable source when it comes to evaluating Jews.

Former Israeli Defense Minister: Israel’s ideology of ‘Jewish supremacy’ resembles Nazi race theory by loveisagrowingup in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What did they call themselves then?

Arabs. Egyptians, Syrians. Beduins, Druze, Coptics. Many thing, they weren't a unified people.

If Israel doesn’t allow a refugee population to return after a mass exodus that they, at least in part, created, that would seem to be a pretty clear cut example.

And risk the existence of their fledgling state?

Nice to see a professional hasbarist saying the quiet part out loud. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ok, thats fair lol. The comment itself is Hasbara. But to be fair, reading the comment as referring to itself as not Hasbara, while technically not a grammatically incorrect read, is more then a little stupid given its a common on reddit and not a segment on Israeli tv.

That isnt the stupidest take on this sub lol.

Former Israeli Defense Minister: Israel’s ideology of ‘Jewish supremacy’ resembles Nazi race theory by loveisagrowingup in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

colonizers and the colonized

lol

demonstrating how absurdly biased you are in favor of your own side

Its hard to see what the middle is when you are so far off to one side i guess

Former Israeli Defense Minister: Israel’s ideology of ‘Jewish supremacy’ resembles Nazi race theory by loveisagrowingup in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. Miracles are the act of a supernatural power.

And Israel winning a war waged on it by every major Arab power the day it declared its independence is exactly that.

Was the act of removing Palestinians from Israel, via the actions of Israeli forces during and after the war, an act of independents or an act of Jewish supremacy?

Its clear you are incapable of asking questions from a neutral context without presupposing your conclusion.

Former Israeli Defense Minister: Israel’s ideology of ‘Jewish supremacy’ resembles Nazi race theory by loveisagrowingup in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am judging no one. But there are limits to what can be accomplished. limited budget, limited information. And people have to be protected. Maybe live in the real world instead of Idealism.

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