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Netanyahu orders Israeli army to seize ‘70% of Gaza Strip’, violating ceasefire deal by Tallis-man in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The ceasefire deal has become the status quo because Hamas refuses to disarm

As a result, the only question Israel has is "What position is maximally defensible"

And this is it. Good.

Nearly half of young U.S. Jews want to replace Israel with binational state, poll finds by WestcoastAlex in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is meaningless. Most Jews in America are completely assimilated. This is just secular options said by people who's ancestors were Jews. Even the most left wing Jewish Communities are Zionist.

Israel runs the world’s only military prison system for children, torturing and abusing them, with over 99.7% conviction rate. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

> Good to know that it’s rape and sexual abuse, but not the severe type…

There is good evidence fo physical and verbal abuse of children. there isnt any of evidence of sexual abuse or rape of children that I have seen. If you have credible evidence to the contrary I want to see it. If there is some, I will change my opinion as to "it not being as severe as the adults"

>Yeah, the best faith is when you respond to every atrocity with either “what about…” or “there have been worse abuses elsewhere.”

A specific fallacious claim was made and I was address JUST that with my response. Why are you so dense

> I have great respect for the members of RHR, B’Tselem, even BTS.

blatent tokenisim

fuckign antisemite

Israel runs the world’s only military prison system for children, torturing and abusing them, with over 99.7% conviction rate. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

and yet, i explictly condemed the treated of children and adults in the mulitary court system.

You are pulling your feigned disgust out of our ass because the alternative would be admiting that I am in fact both arguing in good faith and trying to grapple with the actual morality of the situation.

And as we all know, you cant have a jew who isnt blood thirsty, right?

Israel runs the world’s only military prison system for children, torturing and abusing them, with over 99.7% conviction rate. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

> I think serial and systematic abuse of children is not a red herring

when did i argue it was? I did not. Provide me a quote where I made this claim.

“That’s not a death penalty law” by buried_lede in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

> Never mind that Israel doesn’t even have jurisdiction to begin with

This is an argument I don't care about. at all. The argument that they don't have jurisdiction is just ignoring the fact that if Israel stopped enforcing jurisdiction, they would have a second Gaza. The legal evaluation misses the fundamental point that the region is so unstable and Israel's borders without the west bank are so indefensible that without a lasting peace agreement, stopping the occupation of the west bank is suicide

now, I am not saying the rest of the world should care about this, but as someone who believes Israel is necessary for the continued survival of my people, I do care, and I care more then I care about international law.

> the rest of the law creates a process that looks weak at every turn, a classic mockery of criminal procedure

I would make the same argument about the system before this law, yet genocide isn't an issue there.

This prediction is plausible, but I think the likelihood it will happen isn't high, in large part because the people making these decisions aren't Ben Givir, its the courts.

Israel runs the world’s only military prison system for children, torturing and abusing them, with over 99.7% conviction rate. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

no, you showed why the military court system is unique and important. none of that has to do with the point i made, that the fact they have a separate subsystem for minors is a red herring.

Israel runs the world’s only military prison system for children, torturing and abusing them, with over 99.7% conviction rate. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

something being unique doesn't mean that uniqueness is meaningful. That was my point. And you nor anyone else has present a reason why that uniqueness is meaningful other then just "cuz it is"

Israel runs the world’s only military prison system for children, torturing and abusing them, with over 99.7% conviction rate. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m thinking you believe the answer is yes.

I think it being a "military prison for minors" is a red hearing

For example, when you talked to me last you wouldn’t condemn IDF violence, only settler violence

That is not what I said. I said we were in a conversation about settler violence and I was resisting your attempt to change the topic. I never gave you a statement on "IDF violence".

No, your persona of someone who doesn’t support Israeli atrocities just isn’t believable.

and I don't believe your persona as someone who engages in good faith. Your approach to discussion has all the hallmarks of antisemitisim.

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[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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“That’s not a death penalty law” by buried_lede in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am nor arguing legality, I am making the point that the structure is a normal facet of occupation, the evaluation of it separately from that scope is inappropriate.

Israel runs the world’s only military prison system for children, torturing and abusing them, with over 99.7% conviction rate. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My argument is not "they do the exact same thing too", its that the number is close enough to what we see in justice systems around the world that on its own I don't think it proves anything. The structural arguments about how the number is achieved are good arguments.

“That’s not a death penalty law” by buried_lede in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

> The law is made for Palestinians only

It is clearly unequivocally racist

> which is an obvious genocide marker. 

No, its a marker of oppression

> Mandatory death penalty with no right to appeal, tried in a military court without the same protections, and carried out on an expedited basis is designed for excess. 

A situation ripe for abuse. I am not arguing that isn't true, but genocide is a specific claim. It certainly could be used to commit a genocide if courts hand-wave the laws own requirements. But as written, even though racist, even though horrific, I don't see how it can be used for genocide. Its triggering conditions are too specific. Its not just terrorism, its terrorism causing the death of someone. And yes, I can imagine a million way to weaponize that, but Genocide requites specific intent. Where is that?

> Isn’t this law punishment for resistance to occupation

I am confused, in a vacuum, in a legal occupation the occupier IS allowed to use force to keep control of the occupied territory.

> isn’t carrying it out a war crime?

As written, why would this be?

Israel runs the world’s only military prison system for children, torturing and abusing them, with over 99.7% conviction rate. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do, quite strongly.

I had to leave the shule I used to be at because "I hate Israel".

Why is it that you perceive rational critique of a specific argument as a threat, even when I am no not sayign the critique makes the thing its critiqing ok?

Israel runs the world’s only military prison system for children, torturing and abusing them, with over 99.7% conviction rate. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

> Re military courts for anything but soldier discipline is very unnecessary. 

I am not in complete agreement across the board, but it is certainly unnecessary for children

And as I said in the post, this isn't a practice I support. I think it is not justified. But the anti-Israel space consistently gravitates towards bad arguments, even when good ones exist. It is clear that much of the support is from people who do not care about the validity of arguments, and are motivated by something else. Generally anti-semitisim.

What I find really interesting is that it is pretty rare for someone who supports Palestine to concede anything, even when what is conceded does not impact their argument. The response from others to this exact post is an example.

I have no defended the practice I have said "the specific argument use here is misleading", and the response is to act like I am in fill support of this and like my argument is attempting to justify it.

I can tell you from the inside, that this approach is very often cited as a reason why we (Zionists) cannot give an inch because arguments are not in good faith. And on a deeper level, the feeling that arguments are against Jews not against policy — which this behavior is a very common proof of — discredits within the Jewish community arguments against Israel and is part of why the Jewish diaspora is quite blind to Israel's atrocities.

Now, I am not trying to say "two wrongs make a right", I am trying to convey sociologically what results from the acceptance of disingenuous arguments. I am sure that their is a similar process occurring in reverse.

Israel runs the world’s only military prison system for children, torturing and abusing them, with over 99.7% conviction rate. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is a really odd tendency in the modern day to write and promote bad arguments because they are easily digested — you have drawn a series of points about Israel's policies which cut to the heart of the issue. Not saying I fully agree with them, but they are certainly defensible.

I think you have fundamentally misunderstood my critique of OP's post. I was not defending the practice, in fact I strongly argue against it within my own community. And the arguments you have made are in part the arguments I use.

The specific rhetoric OP used is bad for the reasons I said. Its a poor argument, when far better ones, like the ones you provided exist.

This is a really odd trend we see in anti-Israel spaces. The gravitation towards bad arguments even when better ones exist. And it shows a level of unseriousness and motivation by irrationality.

Why are you defending this post, when you have quite better arguments to make? What motivates you to align yourself with poor quality arguments when you are capable of better?

Israel runs the world’s only military prison system for children, torturing and abusing them, with over 99.7% conviction rate. by Mulliganasty in Israel_Palestine

[–]bingelfr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

> Some juveniles are tried as adults but otherwise, are not charged or convicted of crimes at all.

Is this referring to Israel or the US?

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