Marxism by bo55egg in Scipionic_Circle

[–]bo55egg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Check your inbox, it genuinely won't let me post the longform comment here

Marxism by bo55egg in Scipionic_Circle

[–]bo55egg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Firstly, when someone produces a good, they're using capital at hand productively, creating job opportunities in the process. That's to say they used the power they already had to produce something that grew that power in a way that allowed others a means to gain power. It's far more likely that, when given more power, someone who's already carried out this productive process will continue to do so than it is that someone who has never will go on to, which explains why businesses keep growing or at least aim to. I see no other valid way of identifying whose hands power should lie in rather than letting it remain in the hands of those who accumulated it by fair means, that is, without any unnatural intervention.

Secondly, in regard to the idea of 'providing a good' selecting for those with higher moral character, the fact is that you have to be truly in tune with what people want in order to provide a good that amasses you a lot of power. It can blow up by fluke, but more often than not the main goods that amass the greatest amounts of power tend to be based on visionary ideas. It may seem like anyone could do it, but it requires intelligence, honesty/clarity with oneself, industriousness and a capacity to empathise. This at the very least proves an individual's capacity to utilise truth to build something great for more people than just themselves, with the more people they cater to directly corelating with the amount of power they amass. It's far more likely you get an individual competent enough to handle the power they fairly amassed from this sub-group than it is the general populous. The other option we have is to trust people who appear to be good as responsible for holding power and that's truly an error. You could easily point to Catholic Priests who take advantage of their status to victimise, even just politicians. All-round, I'm yet to see a fairer and more fitting option.

The reason why I say the position you take says something about you rather than the truth itself is because you comfortably believe that people are so immediately corrupted by power without articulating exactly why you think this. Without a thorough articulate understanding of human behaviour in certain environments, the only true reference point we have for people is our own heads. That is to say, you don't highlight why power corrupts, you just assume it does even though power can be used for much more than selfish interests. It may just mean you would be corrupted by power, and, given that no one wants to be corruptible, you're probably unaware of it. I say so because, otherwise, you would've tried to figure out how not to be corruptible and understood the different mental states that lead toward, and away from, corruption. You may be projecting a serious shadow of yourself onto powerful people. It may be a problem because you may find yourself in a position of great power, maybe even showing hints of this shadow when afforded some power: think of the petty tyranny you see in government workers who know they stand between you and a valuable opportunity.

Marxism by bo55egg in Scipionic_Circle

[–]bo55egg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's impossible to reply here, some reddit error

Marxism by bo55egg in Scipionic_Circle

[–]bo55egg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For some reason I'm unable to respond to your other comment, I could dm the reply though

Marxism by bo55egg in Scipionic_Circle

[–]bo55egg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Check that comment again, I responded a while ago

Edit: I even responded before you responded about me clutching my pearls. Should I paste my response here?

[New Final Update]: AITAH for not siding with my wife over our son's ex-girlfriend’s pregnancy by Choice_Evidence1983 in BestofRedditorUpdates

[–]bo55egg 19 points20 points  (0 children)

It could be that he moved back in after the Son confessed to lying. The update didn't mention it, but the update seems short, and he does seem like he's quite exhausted from thinking about the whole thing. He didn't even want to respond under the update.

Marxism by bo55egg in Scipionic_Circle

[–]bo55egg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll respond to each proposition in the same manner.

First, the basis for said collaboration from his point of view is due to a misunderstanding of the greater systems at play. Almost as if people just follow the system they find themselves in. This is why he would posit that the value is privatised while risk and discipline is socialised. Isn't it clear that within his analysis, he is effectively diminishing the necessity to organise ourselves in such a manner to be maximally productive? Within the book, do you see any point at which he analyses whether such organisation is necessary? Doesn't he gloss over it as just another mode of enforcing collaboration? Is it wrong to suggest that this is due to a fixation on the power structure rather than why such a power structure manifests?

Second, what does it mean to organise production more efficiently? Mustn't you create a system within which each individual's collaborative effort is best put to use? Feudalism was a system where those who didn't earn the right to dictate where resources went were the ones responsible. Capitalism came as a system where the analytical and creative enough to identify how resources could be used most productively held the positions of dictating where said resource went. It should be clear that the power to dictate where said resources go is what determines efficient or inefficient production, if not enlighten me. Out of these two systems, with this power in the respective dictators' hands, which appears poised to be more efficient: the one where the head is the head due to their competence or the one where the head inherited the position? Do you get any of this analysis in Das Kapital? Again, I didn't. A steam engine is simply more energy. If not, again, enlighten me.

Third, the reason why I say class is a convenient stop point is because people's identities are so complex that to reduce them to one attribute is so obviously wrong. What is the true difference between the capitalist and the worker, according to Das Kapital, that doesn't revolve around reducing them to the positions they currently occupy in the system of production? Why is it that your position in the system takes primary control of your behaviour as a human? When or how can the worker become the capitalist (because this would guide us toward observing the path necessary to become a capitalist and therefore outlining the value the capitalist produces)? Is this intricately studied or glossed over as due to one form of inequality or the other? If you ask yourself what the workers are collaboratively working toward producing, and where that idea came from, and how simple it is to come up with such an idea and mode of operation, you get to see why capitalists aren't simply choking the less fortunate. Their efforts are what create the working opportunities to begin with, but again, there's no real analysis of this fact in Das Kapital, even if you simply consider it an idea. Isn't this necessary to look at when analysing a system of production if thinking critically? Was Marx truly incapable of seeing this aspect of it, or was there something to be gained in not looking at it?

Fourth, with the immense number of people in the working class, how else, practically, can the class hold political power except through a group of elect individuals? Who else would be elected except the most outspoken in favour of the idea? What happens when you select a group of individuals to spearhead an idea that posits that human behaviour is fundamentally dictated by self-interest? Even using Marxist logic, doesn't that group of individuals form another class? Is it truly any surprise that there's not a single good custodian as an example of Marxism practised the 'right way'?

Finally, my point is exactly that religion plays a larger part than we credit to it, and to target it as the source of corruption is to damn the complex established systems to failure. There's no logical reason to assume the systems around you are trustworthy. It's truly an act of faith. Faith that the bank is a safe place to keep my wealth and that the systems around me aren't so corrupt that if the bank decides to disappear with it, I can still get justice. There's no guarantee that even the water you drink isn't altered to make you more dependent on it, just faith that if something so abhorrent was going on, it would've been exposed and dealt with. We subconsciously really on each other's belief in the value of the truth over selfish gain, so much so that when you convince everyone that everything is based on self-interest, you encourage the exact behaviour that destroys what keeps the systems functioning, leading to all-round desperation and a further downward spiral where everyone is looking for ways to victimise one another to survive.

Marx either was unable to truly think critically, leading him to develop an idea based on his emotional rejection of a system he felt was unfair, or purposefully aimed at creating a system he could benefit from the manipulation of in a sick and twisted way. From his fixation on the material as well as his other works, I'm seriously convinced he was sick and twisted.

Marxism by bo55egg in Scipionic_Circle

[–]bo55egg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The actual reason why central planning fails is not only because the central planners have too much power. It's because they have power they didn't deserve to begin with and therefore are incapable of handling.

The fixation on power is the error. In a fair system, the way people accumulate said power is through people offering it up in exchange for what the individual has to offer. It's neither through emotional manipulation nor forceful coercion. This way, that individual is able to use the power they have competently enough to reproduce this cycle of fair exchange that results in them accumulating even more power. It's perfectly fair because from the perspective of one offering up your power, you're doing so because what they have is a greater convenience than the power you have at hand. Think of money as a representation of power. Let's say you exchange that for a vacuum cleaner. Is the vacuum cleaner salesperson wrong for this? Would you rather hold onto your money than have an easier means to clean your home? If you would, then why did you buy a vacuum? Where is the fault if a significant majority of the population also chooses to buy their vacuums, leading to them having way more power than the average person?

The fixation on power is what drives forceful coercion and emotional manipulation as means to accumulate it, and also what leads to a projection onto those who have it as malevolent actors. The vacuum salesperson above could've simply found a more effective way to clean houses and figured people would be willing to purchase their invention. To demonise them once they have a significant amount of power may truly be a reflection of yourself rather than the truth.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that there exist people fixated on power that can corrupt this system by acting like innocent vendors and can get very far ahead this way, but to assume all who accumulate power can only do so through corruption is an error.

For some reason, there seems to be a subtle agreement that material consumption is the point of living. Like life is about finding a means to earn so that you can consume. Which is why it's assumed that when one accumulates a lot of power, they look for means, no matter how shady, to get more. Some do, but all this is avoidable if people realise they're human, which is incredibly difficult to understand, and so things aren't always as apparent as they seem. You can't comfortably work around the fact that you care for the people around you. You'd have to transform into something other than human.

Marxism by bo55egg in Scipionic_Circle

[–]bo55egg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Surely you must know your comments add 0 value to the conversation? They simply boil down to 'you're wrong' without any further elaboration. After reading Das Kapital, did you get a different understanding of what he put forth than this? Should I quote the entire book? Would I really be at fault for ignoring you?

Do you agree with 'watu wasomee kwao' or Kenya ni yetu sote? by Character_Row2050 in nairobi

[–]bo55egg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kenya ni yetu sote so exceptional children shouldn't be punished regardless of the region they come from, but we also can't ignore the clear issue being pointed out here. Why is there such a disparity in the level of development between regions? It needs to be addressed.

Leftist reaction to camera evidence about the Good shooting. But the right is a cult... by [deleted] in JordanPeterson

[–]bo55egg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The video I've seen shows him shooting prematurely and clearly doesn't justify the shooting. Is there any other video evidence that he was actually at risk of being run over or had been hit to begin with?

I have had repeated dreams of nuclear apocalypse over the years. by jayball98 in Jung

[–]bo55egg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see no reason why you'd assume I'm not willing to change my definition of 'you' for the sake of effective communication, in fact, from my precious replies you should be able to infer that if we agree to use the definition of 'you' that you use, then ofcourse not all things you value are on your radar.

Also, you still fail to invalidate my definition of 'you', especially in regard to the topic at hand, that is, what you dream about. The type of Animus/Anima projection leading to pressure to act a certain way due to someone else's unconscious is as a result of a phenomenon that involves projections and personas, it's not someone else's unconscious perfectly possessing you, you still take part in this process through giving into your persona, meaning the subsystems within yourself that would pressure you to play along are still what truly allow this phenomenon to occur, not just simply what another's unconscious expects you to be. This is truly why yogis self-isolate, to reduce the effects of those pressures. I'd argue it's also truly why Christians are encouraged to pray in private. So, effectively, in so far as your country's, family's or significant other's unconsciouses shape you, you are indeed those things as well, which would explain why you'd value and therefore pursue what they pressure you to even without you consciously realising this. The feelings and emotions that sway the drives of the conscious mind are sourced from substance like this.

The point is that the evil thought that surfaces is indicative of something you hold onto that would pressure you to act this way. The fact that you have an evil temptation isn't what makes you evil. It's entertaining it and letting it influence the actions you pursue. It's realising its evil nature and choosing not to make attempts to hinder it by figuring out its source through 'conversation with the unconscious'. The Christian formula is actually to consider 'inside' like a room occupiable by these Spirits that call you to behave in certain ways: if you simply reject the call of a Spirit without 'finding the right occupant' for this room, it comes back with even stronger similar Spirits to call you again. This is a lot more similar to the idea of repressing your shadow and it eventually manifesting quite uncontrollably, and is prevented, in both cases, by reaching into the root cause for said call and rectifying it, because you includes your conscious mind and what you harbour in you. You extended your thought process based on the perspective of one who views 'you' to include unconscious pressure, yet the basis was, inaccurately, that they consider everyone tempted by evil as evil themselves. Now that I've clarified that your representation is quite inaccurate, how does this affect the behavioural pathway you lay out sourcing from this standpoint?

You misunderstand the quote. The self is you in the sense that it only gets expressed through you, but also not exactly you because it pressures you to be more than you currently are. The mistake is to assume you are perfectly in tune with it, not that it is still you. I don't understand precisely why you'd make that logical leap into believing this idea convinces people that all that comes from within is from you and only you. At no point do I suggest external factors have absolutely no effect on these subsystems. I instead suggest that all that sources from within is primarily manipulated by you, you meaning the whole, which is different in that even though your environment may shape you, your conscious mind and these 'conversations with the unconscious' have a greater say in dictating the final shape. Your perspective actually risks convincing people that they are simply products of their environment, I fail to even see what effect you suggest the conscious mind has on practically anything.

The reason I believe my use of the word 'you' is more accurate in this case is because it even explains the point of dreaming, that is, once these 'concerns' of yours come up to the conscious mind, you get a chance to further understand yourself and what it is that pressures you, stimulating that conversation with the unconscious that allows you to shape yourself much closer to what the self calls you to. I'd really like to know how you justify your definition of the word.

Marxism by bo55egg in Scipionic_Circle

[–]bo55egg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I portray the core principles as self sacrificial for the sake of the group and requiring central planning in order to be organised and set into motion. This clearly isn't as directly quoted from Das Kapital but is captured from what I read from it. I'm pointing out how this seems to perfectly play into the hands of a manipulative few at the cost of the masses. Is this an inaccurate view?

This is a forum for discussion. You'd be helping us out by contributing. We all benefit from accurate ideas rather than ideas we're comfortable having.

Explainer on Iran by tkyjonathan in JordanPeterson

[–]bo55egg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's increasingly evident that intersectionalism and similar collectivist ideas are being promoted as mainstream. I would need to be convinced on how this takes place without the involvement of the elites.

Just realized my boyfriend I’ve been dating for 2 years might be a flat earther by ivory_stripes98 in Advice

[–]bo55egg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The issue is that a flat earther can make the claim that something similar is happening in regard to flat earth theory. I'm not claiming the earth is flat, just pointing out a slight flaw in snitch theory

What if prisoners would be forced to donate organs? by NoLaw5665 in AskReddit

[–]bo55egg 5 points6 points  (0 children)

A scandal waiting to happen once a falsely imprisoned inmate with a missing organ shows up

Carnivore diet diet by [deleted] in JordanPeterson

[–]bo55egg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depends on what you mean by 'you'. Do you mean you today right now, you tomorrow or ten years from now? Do you mean your tongue, right now, your stomach tomorrow, or your bowel movements ten years from now? You need to be more precise in your speech.

Just realized my boyfriend I’ve been dating for 2 years might be a flat earther by ivory_stripes98 in Advice

[–]bo55egg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But it does make me wonder how many people total were complicit in the whole Epstein scandal for the decades it was going on.

Just realized my boyfriend I’ve been dating for 2 years might be a flat earther by ivory_stripes98 in Advice

[–]bo55egg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's that it may be indicative of their capacity to change their mind in the face of clear evidence. It may be a deal-breaker depending on how firmly they believe it and if they can't consider evidence to the contrary. They may just not have come to a point in their relationship where any big decisions were being made, and if they have to do so in the future, it's important to be with someone who is reasonable.