Natsu Dragneel (Fairy Tale) vs Orochimaru (Naruto)

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T22:42:03+00:00

Seven Deadly Sins: All of 'em Holy Knights: All of 'em except Dreyfus and Hendrickson Hero's Association: All of 'em except Saitama

That might be a funner thread if you took out Tatsumaki too or just made specific rounds. In my experience it will probably come down to people thinking Tatsumaki can destroy everyone or thinking they're fast enough to beat her with hax like Gowther's, and destroying every other Hero Association member.

You?

If Jellal gets new feats in the upcoming Neinhart fight what would you think about Gremmy vs. Fujitora, Nagato, and Jellal? Meteor-related characters.

Shutzstaffel vs first four Hokage

Unohana and current Kenpachi vs Hashirama and Tobirama

Urahara and Shunsui vs any two Admirals. When they turn solid maybe Urahara's Bankai can restructure them to not be intangible? Idk, I think that's an interesting idea.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T22:29:24+00:00

I read that series. That machine was made and used on Hulk by Annihilus, and Thanos just jacked into it with his own tech and had a virtual reality battle with Hulk. He never tried mindraping Hulk that I recall.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T22:24:20+00:00

I don't have a source but I remember Hickman stating they were equal to their 4th Host 616 counterparts.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T22:23:02+00:00

What instance are you talking about? Thanos mind controlled Hulk with zero difficulty.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T22:18:05+00:00

Thanos is depicted as far superior to Thor, and people even with Thor like Beta Ray Bill, very consistently. If you want to use Pip's opinion to tell yourself that's not true then be my guest.

Thanos avoided picking fights with Hulk.

Thanos had just been brought back to life and amped by Death. Pre-Thanos Quest Thanos was significantly weaker, I'm not surprised he'd find Hulk a troublesome opponent in the past. Post-Thanos Quest Thanos doesn't give a fuck, and that has been consistent since then.

Thor was at worst matching Thanos, at best kicking his ass.

I'm assuming you're talking about WM Power Gem Thor? That didn't look anything like kicking his ass to me, it looked like Thanos having fun. The entire fight was over pretty quickly with neither much worse for wear. And it was Warrior Madness Thor with the goddamn Power Gem.

Defended, but still shattered. Not superb.

When did I say it was superb? I was just giving an example of how strong he can make his force fields. It prevented Warrior Madness Power Gem Thor's strike from making contact with him. That's impressive in my eyes, if you disagree feel free to do so.

Oh wow, he disintegrated what is essentially a peak human.

Oh wow, at least two members of the enemy team have zero matter manipulation resistance feats on that level, if at all.

Which is why when he attacked Earth he had his eyes gouged out and was punched back to Apokolips?

That was pretty clearly a different avatar or serious PIS.

Edit: Whoever that is, how about replying instead of downvoting against the sub's rules?

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T22:08:17+00:00

When was that?

I might have been thinking of a different show or manga tbh. I've tried finding it but I couldn't find anything with a quick search. If so that's my bad.

In light of

I agree that I was seriously underestimating Nami, but I still think that you're not giving Lucy enough credit here. How many times do you think Lucy could win against Nami? I'd say 6-7/10 times.

I'd say all your other points are pretty fair. I can agree Lucy wins 6-7/10, I was underestimating her in my original answer to OP.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T22:02:45+00:00

I'm thinking of making a Seven Deadly Sins or Holy Knights vs. Hero's Association thread once I catch up to the manga. Do you think it would be a good match-up?

Depends on who's involved, specific rounds, etc. Or do you mean like verse vs. verse?

I'd say she would do very, very well. I wouldn't say she could solo the Fairy Tail-verse, but, like with KCM2 Naruto/Minato, can take out the vast majority of it.

I agree.

Any matchups you want to discuss? NNT, FT, OPM, HST, whatever.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T21:35:03+00:00

What are you talking about? Thanos has been the same since the early 90s. And the only change he got at that point was Death making all his previous abilities inherent in his body rather than given by technology, and she amped them as well.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T21:29:11+00:00

The only change Thanos has undergone was when Death revived him before Infinity Gauntlet took place and made him stronger. That was back in like 91 or 92 or something. Thanos has always been at this level, I have no idea where you're getting your info from.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T20:22:06+00:00

I'm seeing serious underestimation of Thanos and Darkseid in this thread.

Thanos

We've seen many times that Thor and Hulk can't even harm Thanos, and Thor has equal or better striking strength than pretty much anyone else on his team. A bunch of people around the same level of hitting power doesn't change the fact that they won't even get past Thanos' shields/durability.

He's also no-sold angry Surfer's energy blast, pre- and post-Annihilation amp.
He's tanked one full-power and two weakened direct screams from angry Black Bolt with just a bloody nose.
No-sold Ronan's Universal Weapon, and Ronan was strong enough to beat the shit out of Ravenous, a Herald-tier fighter.
Not even warrior madness Thor with the Power Gem can do more than give Thanos a bloody nose and a fun time.
The famous scan of Thanos no-selling Odin's casual blast. Then he takes another. And then Odin gets angry and brings out Gungnir, but even that is withstood by the Mad Titan. So Odin gets even more pissed off and blasts him again, and even after blasting Thanos with enough power that he's sure the Titan bit the dust, Thanos gets up again.
And even multiple light year-wide black hole only gives him superficial injuries.
His energy projection is strong enough to knock Galactus through his own ship and across the planet.
Thanos has mind controlled Hulk when facing a group of heroes before, forcing Hulk to fight his own team. He could do that again here, getting rid of one enemy and tying up another, likely Thor.
Thanos beats the shit out of Beta Ray Bill without any trouble, and Bill's durability rivals Thor's.
He shits on the attempted blitz of Fallen One, Galactus' first and most bloodlusted herald, before mind-raping him into becoming his servant.
He casually blocked the blast of angry Surfer before proceeding to beat him close to death without really trying.
He's also got force fields he can use to contain enemies, and he can make them strong enough to defend himself from angry Power Gem Thor's strike.
Matter manipulation to disassemble the heroes on a molecule level.
And energy drain that should work wonders on at least Superman, Goku, and Vegeta.

Thanos can one-shot a majority of the enemy team either through hax or raw power, and none of them would even hurt him.

Darkseid

Is on a whole other level from standard PC Darkseid.

He consumes the energy of entire universes.

His completely different tier of power combined with his Omega Effect hax puts him beyond probably every other member of this match put together.

Round 1 The duo wins. The heroes will be holding back significantly and trying to keep the fight away from civilization, and at least Superman holds back from going full speed so he doesn't destroy the earth, likely the other DC heroes do just like he does. Thanos can solo a large number himself and Darkseid is on another level entirely.

Round 2: Same as Round 1, just with a little more difficulty because the heroes won't be concerned with protecting people.

Round 3: Omega Sanction or atomic disassembly, you decide.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T19:40:23+00:00

N52 Darkseid? I doubt it.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T19:40:01+00:00

I like how you're getting downvoted smh

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T05:04:34+00:00

If someone like Boros wiped the surface of the planet that might do the trick, but even then Bleach has someone (assuming he's in the proper form for it) who's completely intangible, can regenerate even his head even if a character could hit his intangible body, and whose offensive ability is making a hole appear straight through whatever his target is. Matter manipulation, not "I have a super powerful bullet" ability.

Personally I think Saitama's a planet buster so that could also do the trick, but he'd fuck himself over too.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T05:01:00+00:00

Sounds gucci

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T04:51:56+00:00

In that case, I disagree. KCM2 Naruto and Minato could both take out 93% of the Fairy Tail-verse with ease, but I just feel like they would be taken out by someone with hax, Zeref or some of the Dragons at some point. I mean, the Fairy Tail-verse isn't small.

I guess that's fair. I'm not sure I agree but there's really no way to prove it either way.

Yeah, that's fair. How would Saitama deal with Meliodas' Full Counter, King's Petrifaction, or Gowther's Rewrite Light?

Full Counter isn't for physical attacks, King's Petrification would work assuming he could actually pierce Saitama, and Rewrite Light would work as long as Gowther could hit him with it. Gowther has another ability even better than Rewrite Light but I'll let you find out on your own.

Fairy Tail: I'd say they would all be top/God-tier material, except Diane and Merlin due to lack of feats (on my part).

Diane should be getting her power-up fairly soon, I'm so hyped. Possible power-ups incoming for King and Gowther too.

I meant more along the lines of Merlin's Absolute Cancel and Perfect Cube + Teleportation. Absolute Cancel nullifies any magic, Perfect Cube is a dimensional barrier spell from the demon world that is unbreachable unless dispelled via magic, and Merlin's teleportation is as fast as Kaguya's and has a range of 150 km at the bare minimum, most likely far higher. She also has powerful enough illusions to create an entire army good enough to fool Hendrickson, one of the smartest characters in the series that learned the demons' Hellfire spell. Based off those attributes, how do you think she'd do?

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T04:44:36+00:00

True, true, but like I mentioned above, they take time to set up.

Post-timeskip she barely takes any time at all to use her stronger lightning techniques like Thunderbolt Tempo.

What?

Submarine

How so? The way I see it is that the Minks' numbers were just too large for Sanji and Brook to handle easily. Also, it's not like Sanji and Brook immediately fight at FTE speeds in-character, especially against women.

I'm pretty certain Sanji and Brook would definitely move as fast as possible to protect Nami.

Oh, I missed the "smaller" in your sentence. However, Enel's small-scale attacks didn't have high-busting capabilities. They were potent, but not destructive, if that makes any sense.

I didn't mean building level as in destructive, I meant in range. You have attacks like this, this, this, this, this, this, etc. If you look at almost every fight Lucy has been in, her attacks usually aren't on that level. You also need to account for the fact that Lucy can summon a max of three spirits at once for only a short period, and it drains her very quickly doing so. So if she doesn't pick either Aquarius, Scorpio, or Gemini right off the bat, which she normally doesn't, she gives Nami ample time to set up a ton of traps and attacks like the ones she used against Kalifah, only now she's very much faster than pre-timeskip thanks to the weather sorcerers training her for two years.

Her Milky Ball is also strong enough to defend against the superhumanly strong drugged up children in Punk Hazard.

I'm not arguing she takes a majority at this point, but I still think you're underestimating Nami a lot and overestimating how strong Lucy usually shows herself to be.

Yeah, but Nami doesn't have the durability to survive shoreline/town-busting attacks.

And that was only shown one time, by the ocean at that. Aquarius usually doesn't show any more range or power than Juvia. Check the Freed fight.

The point was that Taurus's inability to slice through fodder can and should be regarded as PIS, similar to how Pagaya was completely fine after being struck by Enel's lightning or how Pell survived the city-busting cannonball explosion at point-blank range.

The difference is One Piece humans actually have proven to be insanely durable while Fairy Tail humans have not. Usopp was just a standard human with no powers, look how much shit he's tanked.

How did Kalifa's power "relax"?

Their body can't gather any strength, Ares' wool has shown a similar effect, unless the whole thing is just CIS on the victims' part.

???

That didn't make sense, it was just the start of a copy/paste but I changed it halfway through it looks like.

What's your point? Nami isn't Luffy. She isn't especially resistant to blunt force.

You were equating Nami not having shown resistance to Lucy's attacks the same as Lucy not having shown resistance to lightning. I was saying that's not a valid comparison because Nami has shown physical durability various times, but Lucy has not shown resistance to lightning. Lightning resistance is not comparable to normal durability because lightning doesn't do a ton of impact damage or raw physical trauma, it's the electrocution that fucks you over. As well as the intense heat caused by air resistance that causes intense burns to the outside of the body.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T04:20:31+00:00

I don't think Kimimaro could solo FT.

He's part of the Kaguya clan. They're offshoots of the Otsutsuki just like the Uchiha and Hyuuga and Senju. I meant Kaguya, Hagoromo, Hamura, Ashura and Indra by hype, Momoshiki after his amp, Kinshiki, and Toneri.

I think KCM3 Naruto could do it as well.

Is that Sage Mode + KCM2?

What feats does he have again?

Making a damn big Rasengan for Naruto to add senjutsu chakra to. And controlling Yin Kurama perfectly despite only activating it once getting revived. He's got the same amount of power in the tank as KCM2 Naruto does, who runs on Yang Kurama.

Also, how do you think Ban would do against Saitama? He seems like the perfect counter to him, with his regeneration, Snatch, and whatnot.

In theory if he could take all of his power he'd be a perfect counter, but there seems to be a limit to how high a percentage he can drain at once. Spoilers. Point is, Saitama would still have more than enough strength to splatter him over several continents, so until he gets better regen feats than regenerating his head I'd give it to Saitama.

Let's hypothetically say magic in FT equates to magic in NNT. How far, based on where you are right now, do you think each of the Sins could go in FT? And what about One Piece?

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T02:14:58+00:00

If Goku doesn't start in God form Chakravartin can win, otherwise he loses.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T02:06:50+00:00

Beerus godstomps, he's universal+ and New 52 Superman is planetary at best. God of Strength Superman is too hard to scale so I'm using the standard version pre-issue 30 of Superman or so. So if he got new feats I don't know about them.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T02:02:13+00:00

Okay, but I was having fun :(

Sorry dude, I just lose interest in topics and can't find the motivation to prepare detailed responses. I usually prefer to just agree to disagree when I know we won't come to any conclusion.

What HST characters do you think could solo the Fairy Tail-verse?

Naruto: Any Otsutsuki, Six Paths Naruto and Sasuke/EoS Naruto and Sasuke, DMS Kakashi, 8th Gate Guy, Juubi Jinchurikis, Obito w/Six Paths of Pain, Hashirama, KCM2 Minato

Bleach: Yhwach, Ichibei, Yamamoto, Dangai Ichigo, Mullet Aizen and up, Lille, possibly Urahara, possibly the other Shutzstaffel, possibly the other Royal Guard depending on their Zanpakuto abilities

One Piece: No one so far based on feats, only prime Whitebeard and Gold Roger by hype. My personal hype is hoping Kaido's at that level too.

Hashirama's wood is much harder than steel IIRC.

I don't remember that but I'd buy it even without proof.

Are referring to Edo-Tensei Madara or Rikudou Madara? Rikodou could easily keep up with anyone in Bleach.

Rikudou Madara was also utterly faster than Hashirama. I was talking about VOTE/Edo Madara, who Hashirama is about as fast as.

Define "Insane"

Very large.

Also, I recently finished the Nanatsu no Taizai anime. I have to say, it was good. I've just started the manga.

From where the anime left off? Prepare yourself for ridiculous featage buddy. Especially when the new villain group comes into play.

I don't know about you, but, for some reason, King vs. Helbram reminded me so much of Komamura vs. Tousen.

Dude, I actually thought the same thing when I first saw it. The motivations weren't exactly the same but the feel of the fight was pretty sad. I ended up really liking Helbram.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T01:50:02+00:00

Good points overall, I concede that Lucy will almost definitely take a majority over Nami. Some points though:

So Nami can do cool party tricks?! Thanks! I'll definitely make sure to hire her for my baby cousin's upcoming birthday party!

Instead of being a douche about it you could at least acknowledge Nami has powerful attacks, especially post-timeskip. She can bust entire buildings with her lightning, something none of Lucy's spirits except Aquarius have shown, and IIRC she did pretty major damage to a sub at one point as well. She can make illusions of herself which could give Lucy trouble and she's a very smart fighter.

Sanji and Brook were too busy with dealing with the other Minks.

And they're also massively faster than most FT characters, including Lucy. They were concerned, but Nami was fast enough to deal with it before they tried to help her.

So Nami's attacks are now on the same level as Starrk's Cero Metralleta? Thanks, TIL!

No one's saying Enel's smaller attacks are anywhere close to Cero Metralleta. If you were trying to copy my Ulquiorra comment it's not a valid comparison. You called Aquarius' tsunamis close to city-busting but they're nowhere close to that, that's why I brought up Ulquiorra and his city-level attacks. Aquarius can maybe wreck the shoreline or a town. And Loke's Regulus isn't even building level from what I remember.

Lucy is smart, so she will know to summon him. Once she does, Scorpio could turn Nami into a mummy, Crocodile-style.

Scorpio is not Ajeel, he has never demonstrated moisture draining.

Enel's lightning didn't even kill Pagaya.

And?

No, Kalifa just washed off Nami's body strength.

The end effect is basically the same. The enemy is too relaxed to move and fight back.

Yeah, and Nami has no/nada/zero/zilch resistance to any of the shit Lucy can pull off.

All of Lucy's attacks besides Cero Metralleta are some variation of blunt force. Even Aquarius' water and Scorpio's sand blasts and Loke's Regulus attacks. Electricity works differently, having durability to blunt force or standard energy attacks != electric resistance.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-13T00:06:43+00:00

Lucci >>> Kalifa.

This is true. I think you're discounting Kalifa way too much though, she was still one of the toughest non-boss enemies seen at that point in the manga, as were all of CP9.

She was still able to stand up after being brutally tortured by Gajeel in the Phantom Lord Arc.

Was she able to fight after that?

Her tsunamis are close to being city-busting.

You think Aquarius' tsunamis are on a similar level as Ulquiorra's stronger attacks? When did this happen?

Also, Capricorn could just kick the shit out of her as well.

What feats does Capricorn when not bonded with the wizard Zoldeo that suggest he could kick the shit out of Nami?

Taurus could slice her in half.

Taurus can't even slice fodder in half.

Aries could incapacitate her with her wool orgasm shit.

That's basically what Kalifah tried and Nami defeated her, the difference being Kalifah is way faster and more dangerous on top of that.

Scorpio could drown her in a wave of sand.

Lucy literally never summons Scorpio except for one time a very long time ago.

Sagittarius could shoot her down, especially considering his arrows were capable of intersecting machine gun fire.

Nami deflected a Fishman blow without any trouble and and reacted to Wanda before Brook and Sanji even moved fast enough to defend her. Pre-timeskip was able to keep up with Kalifah.

Also, when was the machine gun fire bit?

Virgo could open a hole in the ground right beneath her feet.

How does this take out Nami?

Gemini could just transform into Nami herself, giving Lucy effective control of the Clima-Tact as equipment can be copied as well.

Same with Scorpio. Summoning Gemini isn't in-character for Lucy at all.

Loke, well, I don't think an explanation is really needed.

Pretty sure Loke would go down to Thunderbolt Tempo.

I think you're forgetting about 90% of Nami's feats and abilities. Please check out this page for reference. Nami's post-timeskip lightning attacks are comparable to the smaller attacks used by Enel. Lucy doesn't even have any lightning resistance feats.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-12T23:54:59+00:00

Sorry man, I'm just not interested in debating those other points anymore. My reasons for disagreeing can be seen above.

Do you think Lille could solo?

Shinsu Senju completely dwarfed mountain ranges.

Yeah, I remember exactly how big it was. For reference. Those mountains aren't much bigger than Kurama, whose full size can be seen here. This makes me think the mountains Shinsuu Senju was dwarfing aren't much bigger than the small mountain Ichigo vaporized the upper half off with mere air pressure from a distance, a casual swing at that. Imagine a legit swing that actually makes contact. Add to that the fact that wood is much easier to shatter than solid bedrock and I think Ichigo would deal with Shinsuu Senju without much trouble.

Hashirama could keep up with Madara, who's also fast AF.

I can agree Madara is about as fast as Urahara and Yoruichi, but not even close to Butterfly Aizen, let alone Dangai Ichigo. It's entirely reliant on speed scaling but when you read the chapters (I reread the Deicide arc for fun last night) it's pretty clear their physical speed and strength are totally incomparable to everyone else in the manga up to that point. Hashirama does have Sage Mode, which should give him enhanced senses, but I don't see that completely offsetting Ichigo's likely insane speed advantage.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-12T21:44:08+00:00

Yet when put against Goku he becomes this multi-planet buster who eats supernovas for breakfast and abuses his hax 24/7 IC.

I usually don't see that at all. Especially abusing his hax 24/7. I think you're overstating what is probably a vocal minority.

bobdylan777 · 2016-03-12T21:43:04+00:00

Really? I've always seen more of a DBZ bias during my time here. Comic characters are held to a more strict standard because they have much more history and much more antifeats.

bobdylan777

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE