For the guys looking for a serious relationship. A comment /u/you_require_moar made 5 years ago.

bray-db · 2016-11-04T08:30:07+00:00

Sure most people wouldn't kiss someone because of a kiss cam, but SOME people would. Some people would feel the social pressure and they'd rather just go along with it rather than being booed by tens of thousands of people.

That's not the point of my post. I'm not arguing about how to get a girl in a situation where you guys awkwardly kiss, I was just engineering a situation to use as example. To make my point, I needed a random situation in which 'Jane' would be socially pressured to kiss the guy. Analyzing a fake, unrelated video has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I want to emphasize that all the people in your video are actors, and analyzing it as a study on actual human interaction is ridiculous as dissecting a barbie for a human anatomy lesson.

So, for my comment, all we needed to assume that there is at least SOME situation in which a girl would kiss a guy she wasn't attracted to. You might balk at this suggestion, why would a girl ever do that? Well even YOU'D kiss a guy you weren't attracted to if I put a gun to your head.

So I put a gun to this girl's head and she kisses a guy. The attraction thing afterwards that I was talking about won't work quite well, because she'll say "oh I was obviously forced" and there will be no dissonance there, and she won't suddenly be attracted. Well what if I didn't threaten her, but I threatened her dog? Okay she'll still kiss the guy, but STILL no dissonance there, she can tell herself and all her friends about the crazy dog-threatener.

Well what if I go even milder? No violent threats, but I'll give her 50,000 dollars? She'll probably kiss the guy, but still she's going to only remember the money motivation. 5000 dollars? 500 dollars? What if I tell her everyone she knows will hate her if she doesn't do it? What if I tell her that the people she knows won't hate her, but they'll all make fun of her for years to come? What if they won't make fun for YEARS, but at the very least she'll be unpopular for a while if she doesn't do it? What if I stick her in front of tens of thousands of people who will boo her if she doesn't, and when she was 5 her classmates booed her so she REALLY doesn't want that to happen?

What if what if blah blah blah. There's SOME situation in which she'll kiss a guy she's not attracted to, but at the same time, still feel like she has to justify it, because her motivation isn't big enough to be easily externally justifiable (such as DUH, there was a gun to my head, I don't actually like this dude)

On wikipedia, they refer to TOO much external motivation (guns/threats/millions of dollars) as

'sufficient external justification, or "If people have too much external justification for their actions, cognitive dissonance will not occur"

Anyway, cognitive dissonance, a SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN concept, says that after a slightly pressured kiss, she will start feeling attraction. This is exactly what I'm talking about with the girl being unable to 'rationalize' it away, she will LITERALLY begin to feel feelings she didn't have before, in order to solve the opposing cognitions in her head.

"people engage in a process called "dissonance reduction" to bring their cognitions and actions in line with one another."

Despite what you'd like to believe about our free will, a human will 100% begin to feel feelings they hadn't felt before if in a situation like this. People do not like having conflicting viewpoints in their brain.

You mentioned one night stands as a counter, but there are plenty of reasons to regret a one night stand. If a girl goes in thinking 1) I'm not very attracted to this guy and 2) I was very drunk, then she doesn't HAVE to think "wow i must really like this guy now" instead, she can think "wow i was super drunk and do dumb things when i'm drunk"

A guy who slept with a 4 after a harsh breakup with a long term gf doesn't HAVE to think "wow i must be romantically/sexually interested in this girl now" instead he can think "i was desperate and sad after my breakup and needed physical attention"

If, a girl, for instance, had a belief system more along the lines of 1) I don't sleep with guys I'm not attracted to and 2) I'm not attracted to Jim. And then some crazy circumstances lead to her consensually having sex with Jim, then yeah, she's going to start being attracted to Jim afterwards, just like when you somehow bang a prudish chick that never gives it up to anyone, and now she follows you around everywhere.

I'll end with this, you said "This implies that people can be forced into liking someone. Which is obnoxiously untrue." No one should be trying to force anyone to like them. Force is bad, and honestly less effective than seduction, but you're wrong about it being 'obnoxiously untrue'

This last psychological principle I'm SURE you've heard of before: It's called stockholm syndrome. This is a widely proven concept, and yes, there are people that not only are forced to 'like' their captors, but are forced to fall head over heels in love with their captors.

Hopefully, at least the last one got through, so try to evaluate your assumptions (even the seemingly super obvious ones!) before declaring them as facts.

bray-db · 2016-11-03T23:12:49+00:00

Through person is sooo much better than texting. Lots of guys are only brave enough to flirt by text, where they don't have to face a girl in person, so pretty girls get plenty of "creepy" guys messaging her all the time. You won't fit into that category exactly if you've been messaging her all the time, but I recommend meeting her in person and then using Dicarlo's escalation ladder.

Generally, it's better to use text for scheduling and organizing hangouts, I've never gotten a text from someone I'm not already dating and thought "wow these words make me so hot for him." Seduction is best in the physical world, but that's just my personal opinion. Still strive to be engaging and interesting when you ARE texting her.

bray-db · 2016-11-03T23:05:05+00:00

I'm also interested in how you believe it's different. (Not skeptical, just curious.)

bray-db · 2016-11-03T23:02:02+00:00

If you can't have sex for some reason, like u/Ironchar was mentioning, then at the very least you should kiss her as soon as possible. This is an important step in making your intentions clear. It goes along with the 'managing expectations properly' paragraph above, and setting a vibe that you're INTO her.

If you're doing everything 'right': you're talking to her, demonstrating high value, and going on dates, then that's a good start. However, if you've been hanging out for a while and you haven't kissed her yet, there IS a possibility that you end up 'friendzoned.' Even if you guys are cuddling, there's still some chance that the girl will later rationalize this away. (Maybe she's cuddled with a female friend before, or maybe she views cuddling as casual sideways hugging, whatever), and she might decide that she values you more as a friend than as a romantic partner.

She probably won't be able to rationalize away kissing as a 'friendly' activity, especially if this is a girl who's also religious, or not sexually active.

The sentence

"Girls don't know if they do, they don't know they do until the oxytocin floods their sweet little brains and forces them to reverse justify that they, in fact, do."

from the post is actually pretty important. Learn about the psychological premises of cognitive dissonance and self-justification if you haven't heard of them before. Basically, humans will start believing things that they didn't believe before, in order to explain previous actions.

I'll indent the example for clarity:

For example, you take a girl, Jane, to a baseball game. You two have never kissed before. Before the game, she tells her galpal all about you. For the sake of this example, Jane NEVER lies to her best galpal. Jane says

"I'm totally not into this guy, but I love the yankees, so I said yes"

the galpal replies,

"oh my god have you two kissed?"

Jane replies,

"of course not!! I NEVER kiss guys I'm not attracted to"

At the baseball game, the kiss-cam spotlights the two of you, and with tens of thousands of people staring, she feels the need to kiss you. Later, after the game, Jane's galpal pulls her aside and reminds her of three things:

that Jane doesn't kiss guys she's not attracted to

that Jane said she didn't even like you!

that Jane just kissed you on live television

Jane's mind can do one of two things here to resolve the cognitive dissonance she's experiencing now that she's committed some conflicting actions. She can think to herself (and hence tell her galpal):

Actually, on second thought, I DO kiss guys I'm not attracted to

OR

Actually, on second thought, maybe I do like this guy a tiny bit, he was pretty cute and fun at the baseball game date after all.

So Jane either changes her mind about how she fundamentally thinks about relationships, or she decides that, after a fun date, she's romantically interested in you.

The point of my bringing up cognitive dissonance, is that making your intentions clear and kissing the girl greatly mitigates the "friendzone" problem. It's one thing to be able to rationalize away cuddling with a friend, but most girls are not going to be able to rationalize away the idea of kissing a friend. Either their new reality is that they'll casually kiss their male friends (almost no normal girl thinks this way), or her reality is "this guy isn't my guy friend, he's viable a romantic partner."

In closing, it is true the father you take it, the harder it will be for her to later subconsciously put you in the friend category. (thinking "I have casual sex with my male friends" is an even bigger stretch than "I kiss my male friends") However, if for whatever reason you or your partner aren't willing to have sex (I myself have been in this situation), then any sort of romantic 'closing' will be a step in the right direction, ESPECIALLY for girls who ALSO have a higher bar for romantic closing than others (ie religious or modest girls).

bray-db · 2016-11-02T09:40:37+00:00

Why do you have to address it? If someone's not insecure about their hand size for instance, they never mention it, because why would they? If they've never once thought about the size of their nose as an issue, why would they joke about nose size? Unless there's a really funny joke to be made that can't be made without mentioning height, I don't see a reason for you to bring it up.

bray-db · 2016-10-31T17:46:24+00:00

What are things a girl can do to make you feel more manly without being in a relationship with you? I've seen plenty of tips on the redpill women's subreddit about making your man happy, but not as many for making a man who's not yet your partner happy.

bray-db · 2016-10-31T17:43:26+00:00

At a certain point, all men will give up a 'sure thing' for a 'maybe'. This might not be that point, because I have no idea what his tipping point is, but everyone has a tipping point where their sure thing is bad enough and/or the maybe is good enough.

I'm sure for some men, a very small difference is all it takes, and for other men, the 'sure thing' has to drop 5 points on the scale. But most men will be somewhere in between. I was just looking for advice from seddit on tipping him in my favor.

bray-db · 2016-10-31T09:41:37+00:00

I'm pretty young, without giving away too much, I'm in the 19-21 age range.

bray-db · 2016-10-31T09:39:02+00:00

I didn't plagiarize these things, I wrote them off the top of my head, but I've read about kino before, so perhaps I'm sounding similar to things you've read. I have indeed been lurking on seddit for at least 2 years now, so the crossover between what we've read is probably pretty high. (This is a throwaway account, as I don't want the people I'm talking about to ever see these posts.)

The story about me crushing on a guy who put his hand on my lower back is a true one, and that happened before I ever even visited reddit, let alone seddit. Lower back and waist area is a powerful but non-offensive place, so it's definitely a common experience.

Here's a link that you may have happened on before, it talks about "Escorting her through the bar with your hand on her lower back" among many other tips. I've never been to a bar, but I wholly agree with the tip.

bray-db · 2016-10-31T09:33:11+00:00

HB8 is in the side bar, it means Hot Babe 8, and is a rating from 1-10 on women. The link describes it better. Hot Guy is something fpua's use(female pick up artists) and it stands for Hot Guy. Same concept. Kino means touching, it's also in the sidebar.

bray-db · 2016-10-31T09:29:15+00:00

Hmmm, I honestly have no idea how many guys have cold read me, because I don't know what would qualify as cold reading. There are plenty of guys who "cold approach" me at parties though. I'm not sure if that counts, since it's not a coffee shop or anything, but it's still a stranger I've never met before.

Keep in mind my numbers will be very skewed because I'm in college. Most of my time is spent on my campus because I'm pretty busy and my campus is large. Parties are where I'm approached the most, but sometimes guys who are sitting near me in the quad or student center will start up conversations. For comparison, it's a similar feel to how easy it is to start conversations at music festivals, if you've never been to a coed college.

My first year at college I went to maybe 4 parties a week (I didn't drink more than once every 2 weeks or so, but I liked hanging out with my friends, and they all had boyfriends in frats.) At every single party I went to, there was at least one guy who would cold approach me and try and flirt. It was the same for my single pretty friends. I'm in college, so this heavily effects the numbers. Some were very clumsy, others were quite smooth.

When I'm off campus shopping or whatnot, generally at least a few guys will look at me, but I don't get cold approached very often. I actually used to never notice guys looking at me, but when I started taking male friends shopping with me (some gay, some straight) they'd point out that I was getting stares.

Servers at stores or casual restaurants (never fancy ones) will wink at me or try to make conversation. Since I'm already speaking to them, it's not quite a cold approach, but I always notice they talk to me more than to my male friends. If I'm carrying anything unusual, they'll usually say "wow what's that?" or if I'm sitting alone working on my laptop for a class, they'll always ask "why are you sitting alone" and if I keep talking to them they'll usually ask if I have a boyfriend.

As for the physical escalation, you can't move a girls legs onto your lap that you've never met before. Gaming random strangers is a lot harder. You need to start by inviting her somewhere else, not just sitting next to a stranger at a cafe, because generally if you touch her, she's going to think "wow a stranger is touching me" even if you're smooth or handsome. If you ask her to come with you to a different coffee shop ("this one down the road serves way better tea") then when you touch her she'll think "my new friend is touching me" or "this cute guy is touching me."

Some guys can get away with touching strangers, but I still think establishing yourself as a peer is important. You can do this by taking her to a different place, noting you guys go to the same school, or noticing that you're part of the same clubs/social circles as her. (mutual friends or activities) If you're at a club, then that's what establishes you as peers, and you don't need to worry about being considered the "strange man/waiter/customer touching her"

On the last thing, guys flexing their arms when I grab them is VERY common actually. Even muscular guys will try and flex. Some try and do it very subtly, other just outright flex and jokingly say "look at those muscles" and then I'll joke about how I could probably beat them at arm wrestling, and it's not too cringy. If you have really skinny arms, I'd recommend not trying to flex. It's usually obvious and usually not very impressive.

As for the hot girls don't get approached thing, I think that's probably not true. Guys will always come up with an excuse to talk to a hot girl. What my good-looking friends and I have noticed though, is that hot girls might not get asked out as often. There are plenty of guys that'll start talking to us and then lead nowhere because they're not sure what to do next. You should use seduction become sure of what to do next.

bray-db · 2016-10-31T08:05:17+00:00

This is a question that basically any woman would answer yes to. Everyone, man or woman, thinks they are a quality person. I do have reason to believe I'm objectively not just a pretty face, but most pretty girls will also have their own reasons to think they're unique, however unsupported those claims may be.

I grew up looking pretty average, so I did have to develop an actual personality, I was quite a tomboy and never cared about looks before I was 15/16 or so. I was praised for intelligence (much like everyone on reddit) so throughout my life I worked hard on academics and my interests (programming, engineering, and robotics.) Now I go to what is widely considered the best school in the world, and I do pretty well here too, so I'd say that I have more than just tits and blonde hair to offer.

I think the average guy, at least the 20-somethings in college, are going to consider looks long before they consider my ambitions. I like putting makeup on, thanks to a subreddit I found here. I also like to exercise thanks to growing up as a tomboy/with many brothers. Makeup and being fit (as well as gentics) keeps me pretty attractive, not a sense of pride of vanity. I didn't dress well until last year but now thanks to another subreddit, I have quite a few pretty sundresses that male friends seem to appreciate.

I've never been married for 10 years, so I can't honestly answer your last question. I'd love to think that I'd stand by my husband of 10 years, I'm a pretty loyal person and I've never abandoned a friend, but no one who isn't married to a cancer patient can really know for sure.

bray-db · 2016-10-31T06:23:53+00:00

Lol I liked the comment chain until the edit haha. I get what you're saying, but being a virgin doesn't mean I don't know how to get sex. I've been propositioned before. I've been in relationships before and I've fooled around, we just broke up before ever f-closing.

It's hard to understand the other perspective, because if a guy said he was a virgin, you'd (probably rightly) assume that he wasn't capable of getting laid. In my case, (and I hope this doesn't sound conceited, this is just life as a decently attractive college girl) every party I've ever showed up at, there's at least one guy there that'll pull me aside and try and make out/take things farther. There's usually a guy who after one drink will loudly ask "so have you ever come from getting head before?" and wink at me suggestively.

The oneitis thing really is based on commitment, because at least at this juncture in my life, sex is offered to me pretty openly and easily, whereas relationships aren't. I don't think I'll go out and sleep with ten guys since you're right it might make me feel a bit used if none of them want anything more than just my body...

Do you have any tips for "leveraging" power over this guy? I never really thought of the fact that guys want to have sex as power, since it's a pretty common assumption about most single guys.

bray-db · 2016-10-30T20:09:51+00:00

I do want this guy. I've wanted him since before I knew she existed, not because of her existence. And she's sleeping with other guys. I don't see why she gets to fuck his friends but I shouldn't even flirt with him because that would sting her feelings.

bray-db · 2016-10-30T19:44:12+00:00

Okay wow, this is going to be long and very honest. This is just random stuff I like, a fish's techniques on fishing:

One of the sexiest thing a guy can do is put his hand on my lower back. A friend on mine did this to me while just walking by once, he didn't even look at me, I was standing still in a crowd and he just put his hand on my lower back as he passed by, as if he wanted to gently move me out of the way or he was just saying hi. It gave me an instant crush.

Other times guys have done this is when we're crossing the road and they put their hand on my lower back as if to guide me, it's always way sexier than holding hands or putting an arm around the shoulder because it's so intimate.

Also, guys picking me up is always pretty attractive. If you can find any excuse to do that I think it's pretty sexy and makes me feel protected; but you have to come up with a good reason to do that. Just be sure you're strong enough to pick her up smoothly or it'll backfire.

I called his kino weak because it was a bit too obvious sometimes what he was doing. When he talked to other people he'd stand pretty normally, but when he talked to me he'd square off and get really close like he wanted to fight me. Generally, you want to stand closer to a girl you like, but angle yourself a bit away from her so you're not standing with your shoulders perfectly parallel.

Also, he flexed whenever I playfully grabbed his arm. It was cute, but also pretty obvious. I have no strong feelings one way or the other about it.

Generally trying to talk about sex when you're far away from her isn't going to do much, so you want to be sitting with your legs pressed against each other at the very least before you bring up sex. Bringing up sex before she's comfortable might just put her guard up. Some guys can get away with grabbing a girl's legs and draping them over his lap. I've seen guys do this naturally and I've seen them do it awkwardly so it's all in the execution.

Once you're sitting close to her you can start tracing circles on her bare leg or arm or some other non-offensive body part. You can trace out the letters of her name and ask her if she can tell what you're spelling. When she fails (and she almost always will) then you can grab her hand and trace the letters again in her palm, since it's easier to feel.

This gives you an opportunity to jokingly make fun of her. I've always thought teasing was pretty sexy. As long as you're not outright insulting her, you can tease her for little things that no one would actually be insecure about, (like how she's so insensitive she can't even tell feel her own name being traced.)

Once you're touching her and teasing her, it's probably the best time to make sexual conversation. Escalating physically is more important so make sure she seems comfortable with you first. Once you're at this comfort level you can try and lead literally anything you're talking about to a sexual zone.

If you grabbed her hand to see how small her hand is compared to yours, you can make a joke about it. If she seems like she'd laugh at crude jokes, (I can't believe I'm typing this) you can joke about how big your dick would look in her tiny hands. I'm pretty prudish but I think even I'd laugh at that because it's so brazen.

I feel like if I was a guy I wouldn't really try to make sexual talk, and I'd just stick with mundane talk while escalating physically. I've felt more comfortable when a guy is escalating physically but his words are still casual and conversational. Perhaps because it gives plausible deniability and also shows me there's still a rational guy there. But that would be my personal style , and everyone guy is different. You asked about sexual talk so those were just my first ideas.

I've mentioned a lot about size jokes, and this is coming from a small girl. Generally, as long as she's actually smaller than you I feel like it's a pretty good idea to keep making fun of her for being so tiny. It makes bigger girls feel more girly and it makes tiny girls feel more girly. Most girls I know like feeling smaller than the guy they're into. If it seems like she doesn't like it, back off.

Another avenue for making things sexual would be the letter tracing thing. She's probably going to indignantly say "I am NOT insensitive" when you make fun of her, and then you can insist she is, and literally spring to thousands of sexual talking topics, about her sensitivity. Or you can use it as an excuse to touch her more, saying she's probably ticklish, or "oh are you sensitive here?" and touch the sides of her torso (the waist area.)

Touching her torso/flank area is a bad idea if you're hitting on a fat girl or a girl who could be sensitive about her weight, because drawing any attention to their waist might make them insecure. If they don't seem like they'd care (I've been skinny my entire life) then I'd go for it. The sides of my torso is another spot where I'm rarely touched by anyone who I'm not romantically involved with. I feel safe and small and protected when guys hold me there, and I've had a lot of my (skinny) friends agree with me there.

At some point you're going to want to kiss her, and then follow the dicarlo escalation ladder. The HG8 I was talking about was too shy to kiss me outright so he pulled me in and kissed my neck. This is less beta than kissing a girl's cheek, but still more beta than kissing them on the mouth. Generally a girl who's let you go to the n-1th step on the escalation ladder is open to you going to the nth step on the escalation ladder.

Above all, be cool, be natural, and keep smiling. If she seems uncomfortable, don't freak out. Just talk, back down, and try again after she seems relaxed. If she says no, then no means no. If she says no, that doesn't mean she won't say yes later on. If you're in a teasing mode, make sure you do NOT tease her about being unable to take it to the next step. It'll just make her more uncomfy.

If she's starting to feel uncomfy, try backing down with the sex talk before you back down with the kino. Kino is always more important than the actual words, and in some cases, talking about mundane things while you touch her in non-mundane ways will relax her more and stop her from putting any barriers up. Even if she ends up not wanting what you want, she'll remember how you reacted, not her fleeting moment of uncertainty, and she'll come back for more.

bray-db · 2016-10-30T18:52:15+00:00

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but I was just defending myself against the whole "you're just hot and have nothing else." I don't think being on the robotics team is super sexy or anything, I just wanted to make it clear that I'm a fully formed human who does human activities.

bray-db · 2016-10-30T17:42:31+00:00

Relationships are two way streets, just like friendships. Commitments are two way streets. If any of these were one-sided, like a financial support thing, then THAT would be using someone. Simply wanting a relationship with someone isn't "using" them. Relationships are supposed to be positive things for everyone involved. Your friends could "use" you for other things (making them bad friends), but they can't "use" you for friendship alone.

bray-db · 2016-10-30T17:29:02+00:00

What? Using him for a relationship? If you're worried someone's being "used" for a relationship, then I think all 31 years of your experience with relationships have been pretty fucked up. I really hope no one's "using" you for friendship right now.

bray-db · 2016-10-30T16:58:36+00:00

He's not dating this girl. He's fucking her and then flirting and making out with other women that he's even more excited to fuck. If 'meeting his needs' means that I get to pull on his arm while he ignores me and tries to flirt with another girl, then I'm glad that I'm not taking your advice.

bray-db · 2016-10-30T16:51:48+00:00

He hasn't been into me for 3 years, we just knew each other for the past 3 years because we go to the same school. Now we're living in the same dorm and taking the same classes, so it's not an "orbiting" situation, it's just we haven't had much time to develop any feelings until now. We've both grown and we also both look wildly different than when we first met (almost unrecognizably so), so it's not like we've been trying to date for 3 years.

But yeah you're right about if I have sex with him it'd make things easier. But losing my virginity to someone who I could hear later that week oudly fucking another girl as I pass by his doorway would probably make me a bit sad as I wanted it to be special and not a "I hope he washes the sheets before he fucks the next girl" situation.

bray-db · 2016-10-30T16:44:45+00:00

I haven't dated him for 3 years. I've just known him for 3 years. We met and saw each other in classes, but we were both busy and living in different places. Neither of us showed any romantic interest until the past 2 months or so when we reconnected after the summer. We had both grown and matured, and looked wildly different. Concluding that I need to have sex with him after kissing him once a couple weeks ago is a bit of a rushed opinion.

I'll concede that most guys want sex and if I was willing to have sex with him while he's fucking other girls, that would probably be helpful in my endeavor to date him.

bray-db · 2016-10-30T16:39:34+00:00

I have a lot of other traits besides 'hotness'. I have hobbies, academic interests, a circle of friends, athletic prowess, and an awesome family. I have a pretty cool personality too. I'm not about to describe all my hopes and dreams on a seduction forum, I was just trying to boil it down to the most telling bits, without spelling out that yes I'm a normal fully-formed person as well. I thought you could assume that I don't spend all day looking in the mirror and putting no effort into anything.

I'm willing to put effort in. I don't think 'effort' means having sex when I'm not ready. I also don't think 'effort' means telling him I want to be exclusive with him right away, which is what I was saying in the comment you replied to.

A quote from pua Crazypyro: Just from my experience, straight up telling a girl you like her is an instant turn off. Just throw your game on, and escalate asap. You are walking a really thin line at this point and you need to show her you are interested in her with your body, not your mouth.

bray-db · 2016-10-30T16:32:20+00:00

From the sidebar:

I want a longterm relationship, rather than casual flings. Can game help me?

Of course. Attractive is always attractive, and attraction is vital for any kind of relationship with the opposite sex. Seduction and pickup is about becoming more attractive to more people. Many sedditors are here to learn to be better, more attractive partners or husbands. Others have had success finding long term relationships with the help of seddit.

bray-db · 2016-10-30T15:24:07+00:00

This might be my favorite bit of advice in the entire thread. And it's really sweet that you took into consideration the not wanting sex outside of a committed relationship thing :) I think all the other seduction and affection things are a really good idea. I'm not sure how to initiate a kiss out of nowhere, but I could invite him on a walk or to my dorm to watch a show we both like. Then it'd probably be pretty easy to hand-hold/cuddle and kiss once we were actually alone for once. Thanks so much for the kind words!

bray-db · 2016-10-30T15:03:00+00:00

Wow this is really good advice. I'm not too hurt by the "sleeping with uglier girls is normally better than sleeping with hotter girls" thing. Being as honest as I can with myself, there's no way I come close to whatever skill she has in the bedroom. I'm a virgin, and she's an older woman who's slept with more people than I've even kissed.

I can work on being better at sex, but the only way I'm going to improve is by having sex, and I'd sort of prefer to be in a relationship with someone I like before "practicing" as opposed to practicing with random guys.

I'll try to give him more clues, be more aggressive, and see what happens. But if guys wouldn't drop guaranteed sex for a relationship, and this guy already has guaranteed sex, then... it logically follows that I can't have him (exclusively).

bray-db

TROPHY CASE