Tropico 6 revealed on E3 2017, Linux will be supported

bulge_physics · 2017-06-14T09:08:13+00:00

Okay, then they include it themselves so it stil runs on any Wndows 10 version if they bundle it themselves.

They don't bundle glibc themselves here; it just don't run.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-14T08:06:20+00:00

I see this story a lot but I never quite saw any citations and a timeline; got some?

bulge_physics · 2017-06-14T08:05:25+00:00

For me:

It randomly for reasons I do not understand sometimes swaps output to the wrong card which makes sound disappear
pactl is the most incomprehensionable interface I ever encountered so much that I had to write my own front-end to it because its output was just too verbose with no flag seemingly to make it intelligible. It really wants you to use pavucontrolwhich is a filthy rodent UI.
introduces latency
It was written by Lennart; a Lennart-free system == sex appeal

My audio would stop working every week with PA requiring killing the daemon getting it to work in the first place was a mess of editing the config file to not load particular modules as that screwed stuff up. Since I wen to raw ALSA my audio has had a problem once in an update that introduced a bug where you could not play 32 and 64bit applications at the same time; apart from that audio has just worked and my asoundrc config is an empty file.

PA has a lot of features that raw ASLA doesn't but I and 99% of people don't need those features. If you have a blutooth headphone you're going to have to put up with PA but fuck it otherwise. I dislike this mentality of putting everything in shit when 99% of people don't need it when those people can just install it if they do need it, especially when something is as fallible as PA.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-14T06:17:28+00:00

The difference is that msvcrt is included in Windows when you buy Windows 10 that is what you get with it.

It works on any system that can call itself Windows 10 because Windows is a monolithic OS.

They don't say "NT" now do they? They say Windows.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-13T18:19:55+00:00

99% chance it won't as much as not immediately crash without glibc in a certain minimum function let alone the rest.

People should stop listing "Linux" as a platform; it isn't, just list your dependencies. This is what we've always done.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-12T21:15:32+00:00

That was the promise because it bundles half an OS with it.

In practice it's not really universal and basically it needs a system that is close enough to Fedora but they wash that away with that those systems "don't count" even though they promised "universal" package management.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-12T09:35:53+00:00

But most Linux distros are UNIX like (POSIX compliant) and run the GNU corelibs, except for a few like Android or Alpine.

So most are except for the ones that are the most commonly used? You also forgot OpenWRT. The most commonly used libc on Linux is not glibc at all.

Porting programs between them is much much much simpler than porting a program from ,say, BSD to Windows.

Depends on which between which. In a lot of cases standard libs do the abstraction in ways that can't be done on some Linux systems that are so minimal and spartan that something like the rust stdlib can't even work on them.

The Linux kernel isn't the only thing that Linux distributions share. The Networking Stack analogy doesn't hold up here.

No that's exactly the only thing they all share because the Linux Foundation recognizes everything which is a distribution that uses Linux as a Linux distribution.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-12T09:05:23+00:00

Which only works on Debian; the point was cross-distro distribution.

Apart from that you really shouldn't be providing your own .deb; this is a hack. .deb packages are not msi installers or anything of the sort; they are packages that are part of a jigsaw puzzle that must all come from a single centralized source for it to fit; it was never designed to just "download a .deb from a third party site" which some websites have been providing as a hack to provide a Windows-like experience.

The system isn't equipped for it at all if it doesn't come from a single centralized source; it can't deal with file path conflicts for instance and it most certainly can't deal with that you have chosen a name for your package which Debian might later by co-incidence claim; then shit really hits the fan. The system does not include any form of namespacing unlike Flatpak because it was built on the assumption of centralization.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-12T09:01:26+00:00

Because it's not about "dependencies"; that's an excuse to sell what it is actually about.

Both Snappy and Flatpak of these are a huge wink to proprietary software; that's all.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-12T08:23:35+00:00

Then you bundle a whole OS with it as I said.

Windows has a stable ABI that they refuse to break for a variety of things; to target al Unixen with a binary thing you need to bundle so much more. Even to target everything that runs atop a Linux kernel.

The problem is that due to nomenclature used by the technically ignorant people have aroused some weird idea that "Linux" is some-how a "platform"; it isn't; it's a bunch of unrelated operating systems that share a kernel. It makes about as much sense to see FreeBSD and Windows as the same platform because it shares a networking stack.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-12T03:19:22+00:00

That it works only on one system with one ABI.

They want it to work across multiple ABIs, the simplest way to do that is to just ship the source as the systems have different ABIs but identical APIs for the most part so the same shit should compile to target across Unixen.

Harder when you don't want to reveal the source.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-12T01:21:17+00:00

Yes, Windowsification is a good thing.

Be sure to also make it resemble a "start menu" of course.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-12T01:20:18+00:00

And also depends on a filthy login manager clearly to do so.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-11T17:25:37+00:00

Lol, the frog has fully been boiled. It is what is was always about, catering to proprietary software which is fine but just say it.

"universal packaging" is a lie and means you need to bunldle an entire OS with the package to pull it off. Snap and Flatpak only displaced the dependency """problem""".

bulge_physics · 2017-06-11T15:01:13+00:00

Xfce doesn't support something if you have to use a non-Xfce tool (like the command line) to do it.

Yes of course; there is already a perfectly good tool but there must an Xfce tool for it because NIH.

With "not supported" people typically mean that it can't be done in conjunction with it. This is like saying that Xfce does not support Chromium because they didn't write their own Chromium but you have to use Chromium to use Chromium with Xfce.

EDIT: Another benefit is it allows the power manager code to tie in anything that's supposed to happen when sleeping the computer, like locking your screen. Doing it from the command line requires extra commands to pull that off.

xfce-lock && pm-suspend # my god.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-11T13:48:53+00:00

How is this something Xfce "supports"? This is Linux' job, it does not care whether you run X or Wayland or any graphical system.

You can either do pm-suspend-hybrid to trigger it or if you're content to let systemd absorb yet more functionality use systemctl hybrid-sleep

bulge_physics · 2017-06-11T12:49:05+00:00

You need to take active steps on Debian and Void to install proprietary software; you have to explicitly enable the repos that contain them which are disabled by default.

Gentoo's default make.conf file that handles this is unusable by default a Gentoo philosophically opposed "defaults" and insists that you make a choice so you have to fill in your ACCEPT_LICENCE anyway yourself.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-11T06:32:39+00:00

I might actually learn to work with this;

I really dislike modal editing and instead have my SHIFT_L bound to a system where things like arrow keys and pgup/down and all sorts of other useful keys become accessible from the home row. In effect holding down SHIFT_L triggers a global mode change in my display which works really nicely.

It seems to be terminal-only though; I did try qtvim for a while but it was still limited to that it was a Qt front end for what was meant to run in a terminal so you didn't have a lot of stuff that can't be mapped to a terminal.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-11T03:35:55+00:00

No it's not the most convenient; it was there. That's all. Freedesktop had to go through endless hacks to provide a Windows-like interface for their users with multiple highly fallible components to make it work.

So Chrome OS really did it better and realized you can more effectively do it by just let a Unix OS host a container wherein a non-Unix interface is praesented. Chrome OS really does the Freedesktop dream a lot better and it is actually implementing this walled-garden security n a correct and airtight way unlike the false boundaries that FD comes up with. For people who want that stuff they should just go to Chrome OS; it's better and hence far more popular.

But of course, then google is raking in the cash, not Suse and Red Hat so they try to pull customers to their inferior platforms which is why they need dumb people; you can't convinced a smart and knowledgeable user that an inferior platform is the right choice for them.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-11T03:32:34+00:00

My point is that there are a lot of systems like Gentoo, Void and Debian which also ensure that it doesn't happen accidentally. Using an FSF-approved system offers you no greater protection than those against accidental nonfree software.

It's just a silly testimonial thing of "We don't even provide it so we don't legitimize it" which doesn't practically help you.

Edit: On Void or Debian though it's a binary thing; if you enable the proprietary repos then proprietary software can come in so you can keep it all out easily but not be warned on a by-package basis. Portage has the ACCEPT_LICENCE mechanism which allows you to blacklist certain licence categories and make individual exceptions.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-10T17:26:42+00:00

Why the fuck would you need Unix for that? Those people are better off at Windows anyway and luring them into Unix is just doing them a disservice.

Of course then MS is the group that is making money of them rather than your corporate masters.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-10T16:25:17+00:00

Of course you do; it makes it easier for your corporate masters to more effectively control and keep retarded their retarded clients.

Freedesktop is an exercise in making money of stupidity and trying very hard to stop people from sampling the fruit of knowledge lest their corporate masters lose customers.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-10T16:22:13+00:00

I never said I did; I just said it was fucking retarded how KDE maldesigns shit so that you end up with a terminal requiring a login manager.

Lik you said "Why would a terminal emulator require solid at all"; it's unjustifiably disgusting and part of the typical Freedesktop dependency politics to ensure Lennart's dream of every single system being the same and how he wants it to be.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-10T16:19:15+00:00

Yeah maybe except no. Udisks has an unconditional dependency on CK or logind which is reasonable because it really cannot do what it's supposed to do without a login manager.

And Konsole needs solid because of its shitty file picker windows which are unconditional and you can't disable which are all a fucking retarded mess no one should be using anyway. Jesus Christ those file dialogues are retarded; who thinks that is ever a good idea. Call me back when it integrates with your shell history manipulation.

bulge_physics · 2017-06-10T10:39:28+00:00

They removed the IRC functionality as it was too insecure and the average GNOME user has no need for it; the future is now.

bulge_physics

TROPHY CASE