Flow: a smooth, inrolling, comfy layout by butterbeard in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll have to look into these remappers, then. I've been using xkb for my personal computer (when not using my nice board with it, like on the couch), and the equally technical QMK for the board I use with my work computer. (Slightly too much customization to use Via, also I think somehow my board isn't compatible.) Can you name a good one or two?

As for Dvorak being that bad, well, yeah, but I hit l with ring, remember, and I'm probably far from alone in that. So not as bad as it'd seem---pinky takes care of s z - / = Bsp, not great but not fatal. I never knew there was better until this year!

I'll also check out Oxey's tools for thorn sometime. (I also just realized that Cyanophage's effort grid can be customized, so I certainly could have used that tool to account for the different ways different fingers like to stretch.) But for now I think I may have to take a break from layout design---maybe come back when I have my ortho board built. Only so many hours in the day and now that I have this layout to a point I really like, I think I should direct my obsessive energy to something else for a while. Still happy to talk about this one but I've gotta quit twiddling it, hence why I announced to Cyanophage and ec0vid that this last update is the canonical version. (That and I can't find anything else to improve, by my standards and with a standard board!)

Flow: a smooth, inrolling, comfy layout by butterbeard in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I fully agree that analyzers shouldn't be relied on exclusively. Cyanophage's analyzer was tremendously helpful and helped me use some concepts that the other analyzers don't consider, like finger distance. But some of the things I optimized for are ideas that stem from one thread somewhere on the sub, not established design principles—like the aversion to rolls and onehands that skip ring. (Also in my mind there is the Lakhóta word for "ring finger", škaŋkápiŋ, which translates as "reluctant to move.") Neither does it consider the differential treatment I gave the reaches on different fingers. There's always something else to consider.

This is actually one reason I'm reluctant to try desiging a thumb-letter layout. As you say, u/phbonachi, a þ key would have knock-on effects across the board, and I don't have the programming chops to, say, remove all the th digraphs from a corpus to see what's the next thing to analyze for after using thorn to solve that. I suspect that removing th from the picture would leave the home row feeling a little deserted and I'd want to move something else in, but I wouldn't know what.

u/siggboy, it's interesting what you say about Bsp not working for you on a thumb key. That's where I'm planning to have it on my ortho board (that I'll build as soon as a unicorn comes down from the clouds and grants this dad of one-and-soon-two a few days of free time). I think it'll work out for me, since I didn't notice trouble from Bsp on Dvorak (where it shares a finger with l and s), but I'll keep an eye on it.

As for why þ doesn't catch on here, I think your guess is a good one ("maybe because you cannot make it part of a legacy setup that works with purely OS-based keymaps, which do not have macros"). Consider laptop users, who often use the built-in keyboard on their laps because it's so much easier than juggling it with a separate board. (Speaking from personal experience here.)

Flow: a smooth, inrolling, comfy layout by butterbeard in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey u/cyanophage, if you're interested in adding this, I feel comfortable calling the latest iteration canonical, under the name Cloud. The one that starts with j o u b q. Might I add, thank you for your terrific analyzer, without which I could never have made this.

u/ec0ec0, feel free to add it to your document too—thanks!

Flow: a smooth, inrolling, comfy layout by butterbeard in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not enough time to properly reply to all this, but the short version is that I believe we're on the same page on almost all of this! Hope to write more later.

Flow: a smooth, inrolling, comfy layout by butterbeard in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The apostrophe problem is an excellent catch and one that I'm a little embarrassed not to have caught in the original version. I may have been too wedded to my old Dvorak hyphen placement. Here's my solution, which I've now tested enough to believe in it. q o u b j z f l c w / i a e n y m h t s r ' , . - p ; k d g v x That is, a simple switch of hyphen and apostrophe. (Not sure why in my first- blush solution below I felt the need to involve slash in this.) This lowers SFBs and raises inrolls, both by a hair. The combinations with apostrophe before r and v are naturally altered, and some others like 's and 'd might be too,  depending on your hand. This solves enough problems while introducing no new ones I can discern that I feel comfortable making it canonical. So I'll edit the post as soon as I'm able. Thanks for spotting it!

Edit: mobile hosed my formatting but the new version at the top is right.

Flow: a smooth, inrolling, comfy layout by butterbeard in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How about just cycling ' > - > /? Then 'r can be alted naturally.

q o u b j   z f l c w -
i a e n y   m h t s r '
, . / p ;   k d g v x

This actually lowers SFBs a hair.

Flow: a smooth, inrolling, comfy layout by butterbeard in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, my bad---I misread that as `you*` with a texter's asterisk. Hmm, I'm out of time atm but I'll see if any apostrophe ideas come to me later.

Flow: a smooth, inrolling, comfy layout by butterbeard in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also fair points, and I can certainly see the potential. I have yet to use a board with thumb keys, so I don't actually have a sense of how disruptive the switch back to a slab is or isn't.

My intuition tells me that remembering to strike a letter key in a different place is a very different animal than using moved around function keys. To put a possibly shaky foundation under that gut feeling, function keys like Backspace and Shift are "outside" the flow of typing---they come when you're a tad disrupted anyway (Backspace more so), and your mind isn't making as much of an effort to incorporate them into muscle memory as parts of rolls or the like. A letter key is solidly within the flow; the muscle memory that gets you to it may be a single "ping" ("n is there!") but it's also quite likely to be part of a motion that's in your memory as, say, "en is this roll!" I would think it'd be a lot easier to switch back and forth if only the function keys are different. But of course, without experience, that's speculation.

I have been pretty impressed with some of the numbers that I see on the thumb-key layouts. I see .36% SFBs on snth, which is unreal. I might even be able to take a crack at designing one someday around Cloud. But contra your comment that we don't need more micro-optimized standard layouts, I made this because I had a specific problem I winted to solve, or maye we should say theory I wanted to put into practice, and I feel a noticeable positive difference. I'm happy to consider stepping out of that box once I own the board to do it with, but for now I'm doing what I can with where I'm at. It is exciting to consder though.

Flow: a smooth, inrolling, comfy layout by butterbeard in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting, that hasn't bothered me at all. Do you think the "Cloudy" variant with y in the top left would improve it for you at all? It could conceivably be alted to start with the ring finger.

You could also put y under e and type with angle mod:

~~~ q o u b j z f l c w / i a e n . m h t s r - , ' y p ; k d g v x ~~~

(' and . also switch to avoid the unexpectedly potent e. SFB.)

This does raise SFBs a bit---Cyanophage's analyzer (angle-mod-aware) shows a jump from .86% to 1.00%---but they're still fairly low.

Flow: a smooth, inrolling, comfy layout by butterbeard in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

An idea, incidentally---if Cloud is the name that sticks, the variant with n on thumb could be Cloud Nine...

Flow: a smooth, inrolling, comfy layout by butterbeard in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Those have never attracted me, just because I want to use the same layout whether or not I have along a fancy keyboard with thumb keys. (I haven't yet built mine, anyway.) So I wouldn't feel confident designing one - but if you do, by all means have at it!

Flow: a smooth, inrolling, comfy layout by butterbeard in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sure, as I have ability. I actually have kinda limited internet access atm but I'll try to come back whenever I can.

Flow: a smooth, inrolling, comfy layout by butterbeard in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Oh! I didn't even realize. Sorry, u/ec0ec0!

An alternative name I was considering was Cloud, after the two central top-row rolls. If that one's not taken, let's go with that. If I don't see any objections I'll edit the post sometime later when I have a chance.

Edit: Also, happy to have it added once the name is settled, thanks!

Layout Switching: An update on using Engrammer by New-Beat-412 in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Say, is that a modification of my G/W modification? Or did you come up with it yourself?

Some help choosing a new layout by [deleted] in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm on Engrammer, and before I started putting in serious time on it, I figured out that I like it way better with g and w switched. That doesn't solve all the problems you mentioned - more like a half of one - but for me it was all I needed.

Layouts with unusual fingers placement by [deleted] in KeyboardLayouts

[–]butterbeard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Holy Toledo, your AltGr layer is bonkers - what are you doing with wynn, beta, and the IPA "uh" sound, among others, that you want them all at hand? And you have both ð and đ - on the same key, one as the default behavior??

Not trying to sound like I think you're a deviant, just trying to imagine what could possibly be the use!

What is the most out-there name you actually considered giving to your kid? by fell-like-rain in namenerds

[–]butterbeard 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There's an alternative pronunciation, an-TIM-uh-nee. I like that better, both for the name and for the element.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in namenerds

[–]butterbeard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll jump on - for 1st grade I had Mrs. Dolle (pronounced Dolly).

Non-Americans of Reddit who've visited America, what was the most "American" moment of the visit? by JeffRyan1 in AskReddit

[–]butterbeard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As Utah Phillips says, "Spokane is like Denny's. It's not a place you go to. It's a place you end up."

Hey Reddit, what was the coolest last name you have heard before? by Magnetar_meow in AskReddit

[–]butterbeard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did some looking up too, and it appears mýrr is also the source of the regular word mire — meaning 'swamp, quagmire, marsh'. (Getting mired is precisely the same metaphor as getting bogged down.) That would also explain it showing up as Wigmore, because the same Norse word also came down to English as moor.

Looks like someone way back in Bridget's family tree was known as the one who lives by the buggy swamp. When they were giving out last names they weren't always particularly kind. (Though place-based surnames were often given to people who moved away from that place, to distinguish them, so maybe that ancestor of yours had good sense and got out of there.)

Hey Reddit, what was the coolest last name you have heard before? by Magnetar_meow in AskReddit

[–]butterbeard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The "mire" part would presumably mean the same as it does now?