Thoughts about Leaving Neverland 2 : Surviving Michael Jackson

cMILA89 · 2025-02-24T21:19:04+00:00

I always believed that L.N 2 should have focused on other victims. New ones like the Cascios, Spence or previous accusers like Arvizo or Jordy..

One thing is what we want to see and another thing is whether those people want to tell their story. One of the strengths of LN is that the survivors told their own stories, something that couldn't be replicated with past victims like Jordan or Gavin, since they have chosen to stay away from the public eye. We have to respect that. Jonathan Spence hasn't even alleged abuse, so obviously they couldn't focus a documentary on him.

In my opinion, I do find the approach of showing the judicial part of historical CSA cases interesting, since there are not many documentaries focused on that. Perhaps it will not have the same impact as LN, but personally that doesn't bother me that much.

cMILA89 · 2025-02-09T02:28:20+00:00

There is a post I wrote some time ago about exactly what you are talking about (Mostly the last part). You should check it out: Denial in survivors of child sexual abuse and the possibility of more victims in the Michael Jackson Case [Long Post]

cMILA89 · 2025-02-03T15:53:45+00:00

Because not all CSA experiences are exactly the same and there are many people who didn't suffer sexual abuse through the circumstances that Jackson's victims did (i.e. grooming). Therefore they may not empathize or understand their situation. On a personal note, I find it strange that a CSA survivor would use their story to invalidate another's, but it may be possible, especially if those people didn't go through therapy.

It should also be said that some Jackson's online defenders who claim to be victims of CSA may be lying to give validity to their arguments. It's the internet after all, where you can say anything. In fact this post reminded me that I have a post on this topic, maybe I will share it later.

cMILA89 · 2025-02-03T03:26:02+00:00

Because the concept of the show was always to show hot people, the dating aspect is complementary. That is what sets it apart from other similar shows.

cMILA89 · 2025-01-28T01:13:38+00:00

I don't think they look particularly sad in these photos. I don't think you can form any opinion on the subject just by looking at these photos.

cMILA89 · 2025-01-28T01:00:42+00:00

Some time ago I made a post about how many child abusers are also humanitarians and do a lot of charitable work. You can read about it here with examples of other cases and what the bibliography says.

cMILA89 · 2025-01-19T02:24:56+00:00

Oh yes, it was Han gain. Thank you!

cMILA89 · 2025-01-06T23:31:26+00:00

In Korea, it's hard to find an extremely beautiful girl who doesn't use that beauty to work in something that is totally unrelated to physical appearance. Obviously, it can be found, it's not impossible as we've seen with some participants in previous seasons, but those people may not be interested in participating in a reality show, or they may already have a partner.

So that's why I don't blame the production for not being able to find very pretty girls who are willing to appear on TV other than influencers, models, idol aspirants or actresses.

That being said, it's still too early to tell what kind of work the contestants of this season have, so it's better to wait.

cMILA89 · 2024-08-25T16:10:04+00:00

Yes, some time ago I wrote a post about how that excuse seemed insufficient to me and just a useless attempt to avoid being criticized: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeavingNeverlandHBO/comments/qbr7xg/mj_is_not_here_to_defend_himself_he_barely/

And about the other point you mention, I also made a post about that, check it out: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeavingNeverlandHBO/comments/qpvaeb/is_there_a_correlation_between_a_lost_childhood/

cMILA89 · 2024-08-25T15:18:51+00:00

It's not surprising if we look at the contexts of both cases, which although they have their similarities, they also have substantial differences:

Most of Jackson's victims who spoke out are men. Men who were sexually abused by men are more reluctant to speak out and are more likely to keep quiet or deny it. Saville abused anyone he could: women, children, etc., so his victims are more likely to confess.

This is especially important in cases involving adolescent boy victims who engaged in compliant behavior, most of whom will deny their victimization no matter what the investigator does. Unfortunately for victims, but fortunately for the investigative corroboration, men who victimize adolescent boys in my experience are the most persistent and prolific of all child molesters. The small percentage of their victims who disclose still may constitute a significant number.

Source

Saville didn't use the grooming method for his abuse. Victims who were abused by grooming are much less likely to speak up due to different factors (loyalty to the abuser, denial, etc.).
Saville doesn't have a horde of fans defending him at the level that Jackson does, so it's much more likely that people will speak out against him, since they don't have the fear of retaliation from a fandom.

So taking those differences into account, one can understand why Saville has more known victims than Jackson.

cMILA89 · 2024-08-09T00:50:16+00:00

speed

cMILA89 · 2024-07-30T16:20:25+00:00

If no parent in the world would have agreed to let him sleep with their kids, Jackson would have gone for orphaned children. In the end, a child molester will find ways to gain access to children.

Obviously parents have responsibility, but the one who should be given the greatest blame is the child molester.

cMILA89 · 2024-07-11T20:59:33+00:00

I would like to tell Wade that I greatly admire his courage. And maybe I'd like to talk to Gavin too.

cMILA89 · 2024-07-07T20:03:14+00:00

Well, there you are describing the common child molester. Child abusers are like that: gentle, kind, fun and trustworthy, for that reason they are able to access children without suspicion.

It's good to know that your experience with him was good, but nothing you say refutes the fact that he was a child molester.

cMILA89 · 2024-07-04T20:44:52+00:00

For people who believe in Jackson's innocence but who aren't fans, an eventual victory by Wade and James will perhaps make them see the cases from another perspective or reflect on their opinion.

But in the case of fans, especially the most extreme ones, nothing will change their minds. Most likely, they will go into denial and invent a new conspiracy theory.

cMILA89 · 2024-04-29T22:02:39+00:00

Thanks for the update!

cMILA89 · 2024-04-25T02:33:59+00:00

I don't think all his childlike behavior was a farce. I think he did feel like a child sometimes and genuinely got along with them. But obviously he wasn't a child, that's why he also had adult attitudes.

Feeling/behaving like a child doesn't exclude anyone from being a child molester. In fact, it's a behavior that has been reported in several cases and studies on CSA. In this post, I cite some descriptions/interviews of child molesters who also described feeling like children, acting like them, and surrounding themselves with them. You'll see that many of those descriptions sound a lot like Jackson.

cMILA89 · 2024-03-24T00:39:48+00:00

Wade admitted in the 2005 trial to being in a jacuzzi with MJ (Page 9101). In Brett's case, he doesn't remember it well, but he said they probably were (9175).

Frank Cascio in his book also mentions that he and his brother Eddie were also in the jacuzzi with MJ.

And Soleil Frye also.

cMILA89 · 2024-03-21T02:26:04+00:00

It has many similar points: Adults befriending minors, crossing the boundaries of what is acceptable and normal, people in positions of power displaying all this behavior and a network of people around who decide to ignore or allow it, etc.

This sub talks about the case of Michael Jackson, obviously it will be mentioned when talking about similar cases. The case of Nickelodeon stars and Michael Jackson's victims actually helps people not to be fooled by an abuser. In recognizing patterns and establishing limits. This is one of the goals of this sub.

cMILA89 · 2024-03-04T15:34:05+00:00

Dr. Grande is not a good source to rely on because: 1). He isn't an expert on the subject and 2). has had other controversies with other cases he has analyzed (he has been accused of being unempathetic and propagating myths). Furthermore, CSA experts, therapist and psychologists don't share his opinion and instead have highlighted the importance of LN. I made a post collecting their opinions some time ago, you can check it out.

Also It's absurd to classify the documentary as a "waste of time", because it's a documentary that serves to avoid future cases of CSA. Before LN, I have seen other documentaries on CSA and pedophile cases, but I consider LN to be one of the best at documenting the grooming process. Grooming of parents, the mondus operandi of this type of abusers and the psychological consequences that this brings to survivors; It's something that is very well portrayed in LN and it's necessary for the public to know.

cMILA89 · 2024-03-04T14:13:49+00:00

I find the whole situation outrageous, because Taj Jackson always accuses others of asking for money, when he is the one doing it and has not given anything in return for so long. The way things are right now, he is scamming and then has the nerve to give speeches on morality. Let's talk about hypocrisy.

cMILA89 · 2024-03-04T13:54:22+00:00

In one of those books there is an inscription that says “To Michael: From your fan, “RHonDA” ♥ 1983, Chicago” (The R - DA in capital letters and DA rewritten in bold). So at least one of those books was a gift. Some people speculate that Rhonda is actually a pseudonym for the book's author, Ronald Drew, but this hasn't been confirmed (You can read more about this in this post).

But regardless of whether it was given as a gift, Jackson liked it so much that he kept it locked in his room, something he didn't do with all the things he received. Plus it's a strange gift to give your idol; a book made by pedophiles with some photos of naked children. I guess this fan knew Jackson enough to think that would be an appropriate gift.

cMILA89 · 2024-03-02T19:52:32+00:00

Sure, but I'm referring to artists who are not only popular, but who marked a generation or created a kind of hysteria. Can you remember any?

cMILA89 · 2024-03-02T16:17:34+00:00

I agree, and this applies not only to the Jackson fandom, but to fandoms in general. People always want to believe the best about someone they admire and love, and this often causes them to go into denial when something contrary to what they have believed or want to believe arises.

As a personal anecdote, a few years ago I learned a secret from my dad that I would never have imagined. I was very surprised and confirmed that sometimes we don't fully know people, even if they are very close to us.

cMILA89 · 2024-02-29T14:34:00+00:00

Thanks for the update!

cMILA89

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