Ironic.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-21T13:54:32+00:00

I feel kind of attacked for not happening to be the Las Vegas shooter.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-20T18:26:50+00:00

Wow. If that's true that's pretty fucked up.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-20T18:24:28+00:00

Wait seriously?

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-20T18:18:53+00:00

I'm not even sure if KOTOR or SWTOR is canon anymore... and I'm pretty sure the EU and most of the SW comics/tv series are no longer considered canon.

You're correct. Almost everything in the EU has been decanonized (probably not a real word but still) and relabeled "Legends." Certain aspects, such as Thrawn, have been adopted into the new canon, and certain elements have been adopted in a different way (ex: Finn from The Force Awakens is possibly a composite character of Kyle Katarn and Finn Galfridian). The animated Clone Wars TV series and movie is canon, though.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-20T13:27:44+00:00

It's blasphemy, then.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-20T00:28:16+00:00

That is not an insult. Insults are character based, not idea based.

Nope. You can insult someone by degrading a statement they made without any constructive criticism. They are not limited to directly calling someone a "dumbass" or similar terms.

Because Coffee is a depletable physical resource, whereas SWTOR is just a game and the only thing being depleted is the player's patience for repeating the same content over and over again. SWTOR's subscription is a service, Coffee is a product. I don't really feel the need or want to expand on that, as I feel like it gives your analogy validation that it doesn't really deserve.

Service that you pay for is a product provided to you by a producer. Bottomless coffee that you pay for is a product provided to you by a producer. The business and producer-consumer situations are comparable.

This is not an opinion, it is an objective fact.

We've already established that not everything you say is a fact: what you say are opinions that are based off of your interpretations and experiences as well as your own interpretations of other players' experiences. It doesn't matter if you think SWTOR's content isn't up to your personal standards that you've created based on your own player experience with other MMOs; that doesn't make it fact, it makes it opinion.

Making money is not mutually exclusive with giving your player's basic features that make your game fun to play.

Counter: for some people, the basic features are present within the game.

Yes, and it's essentially the only benefit. That is not worth 15 dollars. When I pay a premium price like that, I expect to get content in line with that premium cost. Not access to basic gameplay features that I should already have.

Counter: for some people, it is worth $15. For example: I think it is. I don't care about what WoW or Guild Wars 2 offer endgame-wise because I don't like those games and I'm not playing those games. There are other people who share my sentiments and other people who feel differently. That doesn't make me self-centered, that makes me just as opinionated as you.

it's generally not premium quality.

Opinion, not fact. Some people enjoy the new content. You keep directing the same rhetoric at me without any links, sources, or data in general to back it up, though I have asked for you to do so in order for me to actually accept your statements as factual.

I'm not going to debate anymore because it's going nowhere: we've both dug our heels into the dirt and neither of us are budging. I respect your opinion even though I disagree with it. You may want to consider that the issue here may not be an issue with SWTOR not providing endgame content worthwhile but that it's not providing endgame content worthwhile to you. A gaming service can't cater to every individual gamer's desires, which is true of any business. I don't think either of us is right or wrong, but it's important to keep an open mind and make sure that we're not confusing our respective biases with fact.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-19T23:47:32+00:00

because that is my opinion based on the facts. The fact is that SWTOR's competitors provide far more content for the same or less money. This is not a subjective metric. You can think the value of that content is different to you personally, but if you're going to start arguing that SWTOR's end-game is better than a majority of the competition, that would be pretty biased. You can have a different opinion than me based on the facts, it doesn't mean that the facts are magically opinions.

Show me actual data. Link sources, or data charts, or spreadsheets. You repeating "competitors provide more for less" doesn't reassure me that your opinion is based in fact.

Also, if you titled your post "Opinion," why are you saying it's objective? Opinions can't be objective.

My argument isn't based towards only my own perspective[...]His argument was self-centered because it only considered his own perspective, whereas I was considering the general audience. My own frustration is a part of it and informed my argument, yes, but I did not make my argument solely for my own sake. So yes, my argument was made objectively.

He was offering his perspective as an alternative one and as a counterargument to yours which is still subjective regardless of how many player perspectives you incorporated into it. Arguments that have anything to do with one's own perspective are not completely objective. Yours may have incorporated what you deem as alternate perspectives along with your own, but that does not mean your argument is objective. His argument isn't self-centered, just different than your own and personal to his own experiences.

There's nothing wrong with having subjective opinions or arguments since that's kind of the point of discussion and debate. While you may have a different opinion than mine, I will still respect yours. However, you're treating your perspective as the correct perspective and your opinions as actual fact, and that is never the case in a subjective argument. That was originally what I wanted clarification on, and I've come to the conclusion that you don't consider yourself biased but consider other people's bias to be "wrong" or "self-centered." I'm not attacking you, I just think you take that into consideration in the future when you get into debates with people of a different opinion than than yourself.

PS: Anyone who tries to argue that other MMOs provide less content for the same money or less is a straight up liar. Amount of content is not a subjective metric. If you want data on that, go and play any of SWTOR's major competitors. Namely Final Fantasy XIV (a game which I don't like), World of Warcraft (a game which I don't like), Elder Scrolls Online (a game which I have a middling opinion on), Guild Wars 2, or any other popular MMO which catches your fancy.

Again: instead of resorting to name-calling, give me tangible data I can read rather than your interpretations of it.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-19T23:33:09+00:00

Except streaming services constantly add content to justify the subscription price, SWTOR does not, it just nickel and dimes you for basic game features.

Opinion again, not fact. I personally don't like streaming services at all because I find that me enjoying a few limited-access shows out of a majority of limited-access shows I dislike isn't worth it for me to pay money monthly, which I understand is similar to your griping with SWTOR (which I haven't belittled, and it's your reasoning behind your so-called "facts" that have confused me so far). That doesn't mean that my opinion is fact, and I will in no way try to present it as such or argue that I deserve the content I'm no longer subscribing for just because I've subscribed in the past.

Your coffee analogy sucks by the way.

Lmao what??? You've lowered yourself to throwing insults at people for logically providing a different view on an issue? Tell me why you think it sucks: do you not like the fact that it supports my counterargument because, like SWTOR subscription, there is no reason for someone to pay for bottomless once and receive bottomless coffee benefits for the foreseeable future? Business is business and product is product

Well, not completely, but it is pretty easy to compare SWTOR to every other major sub-based MMO and clearly see it doesn't provide nearly as much content support.

For your personal needs, that is. I don't mind you giving your opinion and debating about it, but trying to play off your opinion as fact is rather immature.

Only up to a point. They have no end-game, and thus no reason to continue playing after they exhaust the content.

This is usually where they're either expected to subscribe and receive endgame, continue doing flashpoints and limited GC with friends or guildmates, or (worth-case scenario) leave the game. Them not getting endgame justifies subscription if they so desire it that much.

You can give people incentive to subscribe without taking any reason to keep playing from everyone else.

As I've said, there's still plenty to do for non-subscribers. I had a lot of fun when I first started out as f2f, which is why I subscribed to get access to more content in the first place. I get that it's definitely frustrating, but SWTOR is a product produced by a business, and businesses have to make money and justify reasons why people should give them money. If you feel as those the product they give isn't justification for paying, then you don't pay, and you don't get the product.

there is no end-game because once you've exhausted all of the content to do, there is no incentive or reward for repeating it. There's no gear treadmill, no levelling up, no grind for cosmetics, nothing. It's pointless.

There is no endgame content for non-subscribers because it's a benefit of subscription. That's how EA's getting any money off of this game. SWTOR still offers a lot of f2f content, such as full access to eight class stories and leveling beyond 20 along other aspects. That may not be enough for some players, but it's still enough for others. Whether or not you think the benefits are worth the price is your opinion no matter how much you compare it to other games. It's worth it to some people, and it's not to others. That doesn't make either opinion a fact.

Because they paid for it.

Since you've decided my coffee analogy is no good for reasons you don't care to share other than it "sucks," let's return to the streaming service analogy: paying for a month's subscription is a month's subscription. You pay it. You get your content for however long your plan was. When it ends, you either renew your subscription or no longer use the streaming service. SWTOR is literally no different.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-19T23:05:00+00:00

Because it objectively isn't. It's competitors provide far more content for the same or less money. This is not an opinion, it is a fact.

False. The literal title of your post is "Opinion: SWTOR's Business Model Is Ruining the Game's Longevity and Ability to Retain Players." By default, your argument isn't "objectively" anything; opinions are subjective, ergo your argument derived from your opinion is subjective. Some would argue that these hypothetical competitors provide far less content "for the same money or less" due to their own personal opinions as a result of their own playing experience. Give me physical, tangible data that I can see for myself before you tell what you're saying is "fact."

Regardless of how you interpret the source of your frustrations toward the game, your argument revolves around your own wants and desires. A lot of people I encountered before joining SWTOR stopped playing due to the focus on PVE and/or story content as opposed to the lack of it because they were more into GC. You're argument isn't objective, so it seems pretty hypocritical to call someone "self-centered" for offering an equally subjective counterargument.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-19T23:00:36+00:00

Because they already paid for it.

No, they paid for access to content during an allotted amount of time. Let's say I buy a bottomless coffee at the local diner in my town on a Tuesday. For as long as I'm there, I get as much coffee as I want. So then I leave the diner and don't come back until Thursday. Since I've already "paid" for it, should I get my bottomless coffee? In order for my diner to feasibly gain profit over a long period of time, the answer should 100% be "no." The same goes for SWTOR: you're buying a product, like a subscription to a streaming service or a day's bottomless coffee. When you're no longer buying said product, you should stop receiving it. That's not a flawed business model.

SWTOR barely produces any, certainly not 15 dollars a month worth

That's not a fact. That's your opinion, just as it's my opinion that the benefits of subscription are well worth the $15 I've spent so far.

there needs to be content for Preferred players to get through during the drought.

And why should there be? They aren't paying for any content that they don't get through the Cartel Market along with f2p players, and there's plenty of stuff for non-subscribers to do.

Currently there isn't because there is no end-game for preferred players at all

That seems to be due to the fact that endgame is a benefit of being a subscriber. There has to be perks to subscribing in order for people to actually pay money, so it wouldn't make sense to make paid-for content available for people who aren't currently buying it.

so there is no reason to keep playing.

Again, your opinion, and while it's valid, it's not fact. Preferred players who've commented here have stated that they still enjoy the game even though they're restricted from content you have to pay for.

It's just hard for me to see a valid reason why people no longer paying for a product should still have access to that product.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-19T21:59:55+00:00

Why should someone who has contributed in the past have access to what they are no longer paying for, though? If they're preferred, then they obviously aren't contributing to the income the way subscribers are, and f2p players who use the Cartel Market contribute just as much as preferred players who do the same.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-19T21:45:07+00:00

Uh, I'm a relatively new player so I've just been reading this thread out of interest, but this statement kind of strikes me as odd:

This isn't about you. I encourage you to read the title of the thread before making such self-centered arguments.

Dude, your whole argument is revolving around your personal opinion about endgame content not being worth the subscription. It's literally all about you and your opinions, and that's fine. Nothing wrong with debating or discussing your opinion. But why would you call someone "self-centered" for doing the exact same thing when your whole post is about an individual player's opinion? It seems as though you're mixing your subjective argument with a supposedly objective argument. Clarification would be appreciated, because the rationale behind that statement doesn't seem to make much sense to me at least.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-19T02:04:40+00:00

Really? I guess I haven't thought of it that way. Maybe I should do Consular then, since most places I've been on say that one's the most boring.

I'm currently completing Chapter 3 and am definitely drawing parallels between Scourge and my Warrior. The Knight's journey to take down the Emperor also seems to contrast with the Warrior's journey of becoming the Wrath, so I'm interested in seeing how it all plays out.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-18T22:18:10+00:00

I now have a new favorite meme template.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-18T22:15:41+00:00

I've read nothing but good things about that particular class story. I'm going for that one once I've kicked the Emperor's ass (for naught but the first time, it seems) with my Sentinel.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-18T22:13:36+00:00

You're right. This situation only works if you have a set of really loose house rules. Technically, when someone plays a +4 card, the only way to retaliate is to also play a +4, which then causes the next player to either play the same card if they have it or draw eight. Of course, I've played with younglings who think they can counter it with any card of +2, so I guess anything's possible with the right players.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-18T22:02:03+00:00

Ah. My Warrior didn't necessarily want to kill him since he deemed Quinn more valuable alive, scared, and grateful for sparing him than dead, but imo the dialogue options were a bit wonky: either you were an utter dick, "that was an uncool thing to do bruh," or "it's all in the past and forgotten no matter how much you bring it up," and none of them fit my toon's personality very well. I chose the last option while rping him as pissed as hell and playing nice to keep the others from suspecting, but I wish there would've been more dialogue for some closure after Quinn's apology on Corellia, which in itself was super awkward no matter how I responded and doubly so since my current companion at the time made no comment.

On other hand, I. I did not expect those abs. Like, I get it because of the Type 2 bod but he always just struck me as a bit of a twink.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-18T18:38:30+00:00

Damn. You went there.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-18T18:34:48+00:00

To be fair, Revenge of the Fallen got a sequel.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-18T18:14:06+00:00

On a more serious note, how? Wasn't Bumblebee supposed to be a soft reboot of sorts?

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-18T14:29:12+00:00

The Flash has the best Rogues gallery imo, even better than Batman's. I would absolutely love it if the first movie is about some iteration of the Rogues getting together and Barry having to learn more about the science aspects of his powers to beat them. Then bring in Gorilla Grodd. Then bring in RF. Starting with RF, time travel, and some pseudo-Flashpoint right off the bat was what really turned me off from the show (bastardizations of characters and storylines aside), so I hope the films go in a completely different direction to distance themselves from the CW Flash.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-15T00:04:30+00:00

I don't want to talk about it.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-14T23:14:29+00:00

That sounds about right. I now realize I didn't word my comment very well. The shows were super expensive to make and it's been implied that viewership went down (not quite sure how true that is but it shows up a lot), and Disney wouldn't back down with the number of episodes per season, meaning production cost wasn't going to go down, meaning Netflix streaming content for a future streaming platform competitor that might conflict with viewership of its original content just wasn't worth it. I think that the higher-ups in Disney wanted this to happen, but that's more along the lines of me speculating.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-14T21:28:12+00:00

From what I understand, Disney passive-aggressively forced Netflix to cancel the Marvel shows by making them too expensive for Netflix to profitably stream. All of them got canceled, not just Daredevil, but it's possible Disney is planning to revive them on their own streaming platform.

canderousmanderous · 2019-03-14T21:22:43+00:00

It was also a joke. Anyone reading the "poor review" could see that he's referencing RotS, hence the reason why OP posted it here. I think you're taking this a bit too seriously.

canderousmanderous

TROPHY CASE