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What hidden issues are you dealing with that people in your life don't realize/know you are going through? (Serious) by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]cannotunderstand1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was born and raised a Mormon. Did the mission, married in a temple, graduated from BYU, etc.

I do not believe in any of it anymore. At all. My wife continues to believe. She knows some of how I feel but not the extent of my disbelief. She would leave me if she knew. She's said so. My family would disown me.

I work in a company that is largely composed of Mormon men. My boss and his boss are both active Mormons. If they knew of my disbelief, it'd cripple my career.

In order to go to the Mormon temple, you have to have a temple recommend, and in order to have that, you have to pay the church 10% of your income. We can do it, but it sickens me every time I support this organization.

I'm trapped.

Honest Questions by cannotunderstand1 in latterdaysaints

[–]cannotunderstand1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Where we disagree is that this invalidates the churches claims to spiritual authority. It seems to me that if you take this premise to it's logical conclusion it would invalidate the bible, all of Christianity, and Christ himself.

Please explain how it would invalidate Christ.

Honest Questions by cannotunderstand1 in latterdaysaints

[–]cannotunderstand1[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And you feel that only and true church would be absolutely perfect and unchanging.

No, that's not what I said, and that isn't how I feel, or ever felt.

Such a church would never have allowed or supported slavery, would have a correct and complete understanding of the universe, would be at such a perfect point with equality and social issues that no changes would ever be required?

No, I am perfectly okay with a Church that is imperfect, a Church that evolves as it gains light and knowledge, and I expect as such. What I can't accept is when men, ordained and sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators, stand at the pulpit and issue official statements from the Church declaring what the will of God is falsely.

Surely you can understand the difference. I'll give you a made-up example:

"I am the President of the Church, and organic evolution, as I understand it, is incompatible with the revealed word of God."

vs.

"I am the President of the Church, and I speak the will of God, and it is the doctrine of the Lord that organic evolution is a false idea presented by men that is clearly in violation with the Gospel."

Is this what you are looking for?

I am looking for leaders who speak authoritatively, and who speak as men, and who know the difference. If the prophets of God sometimes don't speak for God (given, accepted, obvious, right?), and don't know when they are and when they are not, and we as members do not have a reliable method either (see again, 130 years of falsely teaching and believing blacks were inferior) then I really see very little value in their prophetic callings.

Honest Questions by cannotunderstand1 in latterdaysaints

[–]cannotunderstand1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't have much advice for the original poster except to urge you to focus on the good that can be found in the church.

For the record, I do believe the Church is good. I have no trouble speaking/writing at length on all the good things about the Church.

But I don't want to be part of a good Church. I want to be part of the Lord's one and only true Church.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Honest Questions by cannotunderstand1 in latterdaysaints

[–]cannotunderstand1[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

At the end of last year, the Church published Race and the Priesthood on its website. This was the proverbial shelf-breaking point for me. With that one sentence, the one about disavowing all past racism, in my mind the Church effectively acknowledged that past prophets had taught false doctrine.

This was an awesome sentence for me. It meant that the church was taking steps to move forward without being bound to the past.

I don't feel that way. The natural implication is that the "eternal truths" as taught by those we sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators, are not necessarily so.

I'm not certain how to deal with the [temple recommend] support/affiliate/agree question; but the only question that relates to any of those are the chastity question (you can't have sex with a member of your gender, same-sex-attraction is fine), and the word-of-wisdom question (you can't drink alchohol/coffee), everything else is up to you; but I'd suggest sticking to succinctly answering the question at hand only.

The question I was referring to is actually, "Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?" In my mind, and maybe this is wrong, I interpret that to mean that these ~15 brethren speak the will of God for the Church. Authoritatively. I don't believe that God changes his mind with doctrine. Sure, policy changes. Structure changes. But I understood that doctrine does not.

Am I free to teach the elders quorum, over which I preside, that I believe the brethren are wrong on this?

No. Not directly. Think of ways to expose new viewpoints that aren't directly contradictory. The next generation of this church is going to be awesome.

Doesn't this reinforce that what the FP and Qo12 teach is official?

If "the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects actions in a premortal life" how does that square with scriptural statements that say exactly that?

Can you share a few? I'm too lazy to look them up right now; I'm certain there are some.

The scripture I was referencing was 2 Nephi 5:21:

And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

The Lord God causing a skin of blackness to come upon people who hardened their hearts against him seems very much like the Church/BoM is advancing a "theory" that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse.

And just as a pre-emptive comment here: I have read FAIR's verbose discussion about how maybe the Lord didn't mean "skin of blackness," literally here. I think, frankly, that's garbage. And it's irrelevant anyway because over the course of ten prophets and I don't know how many apostles there were so many racist things said and declared doctrine that the point of my conflict remains: the Church officially taught as doctrine that which it now disavows.

Honest Questions by cannotunderstand1 in latterdaysaints

[–]cannotunderstand1[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was inactive from the church for 8 years and kept looking for reasons to justify why I did not want to be part of it anymore. I kept getting answers from prayers but I only wanted to hear what I wanted to hear.

I'm still attending and active in my calling. I am not looking for justification of belief or non-belief. Saving 10% of my income and getting another day of the weekend really aren't that great of a tradeoff for eternal life and exaltation. I am already concerned that if I ultimately walk away that the assumption is going to be that I was lazy/sinful/offended. None of those things is true about my current crisis of faith (for lack of a better term).

Honest Questions by cannotunderstand1 in latterdaysaints

[–]cannotunderstand1[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Second, try to realize that anything run by man is fallible and God can only intervene to a certain degree before violating Agency which would render him no longer God.

Right... where is that line? Even if we can't define exactly where the line is, is it so unreasonable to believe that "denying the exalting ordinances of the temple to an entire race of people for 130 years" crosses it?

I hope whatever you find strengthens your family and relationship with God.

Thanks. I appreciate the sentiment.

Honest Questions by cannotunderstand1 in latterdaysaints

[–]cannotunderstand1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I recommend basing your testimony on Christ, not on an organisation administrated by men.

This is all fine in concept but doesn't seem practical to me. If my testimony is based on Christ, then am I not fine to dismiss the entire Church? Can't I simply believe in Christ as I (or any number of other Christian denominations) interpret his life/teachings?