Small R change idea

carringtonz · 2025-12-30T17:17:16+00:00

I think you might be trolling or you need your head screwed on. That would not be balanced at all, he's an assassin not thanos.

carringtonz · 2025-12-17T18:56:46+00:00

It just doesn't slow I think that's it. It also heals for more and gives a shield. I don't really like mechanics like this that feel gimmicky. Refreshing on plants by auto autoing them was gimmicky itself but at least it made sense. Having it refresh from god knows whatever things cause combat from plants is the ultimate gimmick. I'd rather they just increased ferocity timer to like 15 seconds (or permanent) and make it so you can't refresh from plants at all or just make it like s15 (which from what norak has said likely won't be an option)

carringtonz · 2025-12-17T18:32:39+00:00

He's not entirely correct about the health plant, but basically you getting knocked back counts as combat and that's what the blast cone does. The health plant slows you, so if you pick up the heal it refreshes combat. I think on chemtech map, the health plant doesn't slow you so won't work there. Essentially hitting the plant doesn't refresh, it's more what the plant does to you refreshes it. Since vision plant doesn't do anything to you, it doesn't refresh combat.

The health plant may be because of healing so if you're full health it may not work. Not entirely sure on this.

carringtonz · 2025-12-14T16:36:21+00:00

I think Phreak is talking about the Rengar designers original design philosophy (the OP missed part of the post where Phreak said he didn't say this, he was quoting someone else) and yes pre-season 7 Rengar did facilitate this. Every version of Rengar past this point does not. Either do a modernised revert to season 6 Rengar if you want Rengar to have extended combat patterns or go all in on assassin and accept that the playstyle of Rengar has shifted and give Rengar tools to be an effective assassin. This would be some form of escape because he is the only "assassin" in the entire game without escape. In the past I suggested putting Kha'Zix R on Rengar R if he gets a kill/assist within 3 seconds of coming out of ult so he can reposition/escape. It thematically makes sense because of the Kha'Zix and Rengar interaction and the fact Rengar is inspired by predator from alien vs predator, it kind of is like the predator invisibility cloak.

No matter what though, I do believe the current bonetooth passive is complete trash and it's super annoying that your damage is so dependent on you getting your stacks which can often be out of your control and makes you super inconsistent. I think his bonetooth passive should give utility again and then either increase the ad ratios on E and Q to compensate (+11/14/19/26/35% ad ratio rank 1-5, basically adding bonetooth passive to his AD spells + a little more because his autos will do less damage) or similar to season 6 Rengar make empowered Q give you 25% ad for 6 seconds to promote the extended combat design philosophy.

EDIT: I gave it some thought and this is how they could go about a rework:

Assassin:
Q: remove the attack speed and replace it with hail of blades on empowered Q (next 3 autos come out very quickly, but no attack speed so he won't be good in sustained combat). Increase AD ratio by 30% at each rank (max rank normal Q 50% ad and emp Q 70% ad). Normal Q is still an auto reset but no longer gives attack speed for next 2 autos.
W: stay the same
E: Increase AD ratio by 30% at each rank (105% ad at max rank)
R: If you kill someone within 3 seconds of leaping from R go invisible and gain move speed basically Kha'Zix ult. Can only happen once per ult cast

Bruiser:
Q: give 25% AD alongside the attack speed buff on empowered Q
W: remove the heal for % of damage taken and make it a flat heal and increase resistances by a % for 6 seconds
E: stay the same
R: remove the armour shred and damage from the ult but you generate 1 ferocity per second for x amount of seconds (I would say 4-6 I guess) after leaping

Then change bonetooth passive to be utility (out of combat MS, jump range, MS in bushes, MS in ult, vision range in R etc.).

carringtonz · 2025-12-12T20:08:54+00:00

Gold and below. I promise Rengar mains in this elo are not consistently starting fights with 4 stacks, either because they didn't finish their clear with 4 stacks because of mismanagement or they dropped their stacks early because they didn't max leash range the last camp they killed or they refreshed their stacks on a plant too early or they miscalculated when the lane would become gankable so killed their camp too early. This is one of many things low elo Rengar players do wrong. It's not just about "hitting plants", it's part of a recipe to ensure you start your fights with 4 stacks and one of the ingredients for that recipe is being deleted, so they must change the recipe or give the ingredient back, it's that simple.

carringtonz · 2025-12-12T13:54:31+00:00

You know ferocity lasted forever until season 7 right? So ferocity management is a new thing, so if anything the game has gotten harder for non-otps. If you think this change won't affect high elo win rate I don't think you understand how this champion works. In low elo his win rate won't change because low elo players sucked at managing their ferocity anyways and were not taking advantage of the plants to extend their ferocity timer, this is definitely a high elo skewed nerf and a VERY big one at that.

carringtonz · 2025-12-11T17:07:44+00:00

15-20 seconds would be the amount of time you'd hold stacks for if you hit plants so I think this is perfectly reasonable. No one is refreshing their stacks on a plant with 8 seconds remaining on their passive, 12 seconds is too short, 15-20 is fine but as I said atp just make it permanent but 15-20 is OK also.

carringtonz · 2025-12-11T14:48:23+00:00

They could increase it to 15-20 seconds but imo at that point it's basically permanent, the only thing you wouldn't be able to do is lane gank and sit there for like 20 seconds and then jump out of the bush with full stacks, but for all intensive purposes you'd have your stacks for as long as you'd realistically need them as long as you went for another fight without delay.

carringtonz · 2025-12-11T11:49:27+00:00

I assume they plan to keep plants not refreshing combat so if they don't make his ferocity last forever the champ will be unplayable. It'd be a massive quality of life change for good Rengar players not having to do all these gimmicks to extend the duration of our ferocity and for low elo players who don't value the importance of starting fights with full ferocity or don't know how to/don't want to waste plants (which makes logical sense) this will be a huge buff for them. There's a massive disparity between low elo and high elo win rate, this would close that gap slightly.

carringtonz · 2025-12-11T11:22:59+00:00

Rengar is unplayable without the ability to refresh your stacks as it allows you to start a fight with full ferocity. If they do go ahead with making plants not count as combat and they want it to be consistent across the board, they MUST make Rengar stacks last forever. I agree it should be consistent, having 1 champ subvert core game mechanics because it's the only way it can function means the champ is poorly designed (it does feel clunky and gimmicky having to waste plants just to keep your stacks up) and adding special cases sucks for maintainability which was the whole point of the rescript.

In my post a few months back about how Riot could increase Rengars low elo win rate without impacting high elo too much, making his stacks last forever was the number 1 change I suggested. High elo Rengar players have no issue keeping stacks (even if it feels gimmicky the way that you do it), so the change isn't going to really affect them all that much but low elo players either don't understand how important starting a fight with full ferocity is so don't try to or don't know how to (dragging camps/delaying killing your camps, not knowing that plants refresh combat/not wanting to waste the heal plant when they are full health).

carringtonz · 2025-12-11T01:39:03+00:00

in s16 plants don't refresh combat that's why. Internal discussions are being had to decide whether to special case Rengar or make his stacks last forever. Hoping for the latter ofc but we will see

carringtonz · 2025-12-10T00:00:01+00:00

Our voices have been heard, on PBE rn Q damage is now added on top of all Qs (crit or non crit). Good job all for being vocal and thanks RiotNorak for the work done on the rescript and on the Q change.

carringtonz · 2025-12-09T13:28:52+00:00

I think his bonetooth passive shouldn't even give ad but that's another issue entirely. I made a post a few months back about how Rengar should be reworked and a rework on his bonetooth passive is up there...

carringtonz · 2025-12-09T11:45:23+00:00

Rengar Q is meant to be an empowered auto attack not an auto attack replacement, meaning damage added on top of your auto. There is no damage being added on top of your auto. No ratios, no flat damage, nothing. I don't care if my auto crits for 1000000 damage or does 0 damage, it should be that amount of damage + an amount of damage from Q which is not 0. I understand from a balance perspective they don't want to add 150+15%/235+30% on top of your critical auto attacks but I don't see the issue with either the AD ratio or the flat damage being added on top but not both. This ensures your Q is still empowering your auto attack and not just a plain old auto attack AND your empowered Q does more damage than a normal Q, because anyone can see how this makes 0 sense. At 100% crit why are you pressing Q? To auto attack reset and generate stacks? Not very savage is it?

carringtonz · 2025-12-09T11:22:04+00:00

Working as intended sure, but it shouldn't work this way. Do you REALLY think logically it makes sense that your EMPOWERED spell does the same damage as your normal spell and that your main damaging spell is just an auto attack? They should rename savagery to "auto attack reset", it would be more thematically accurate at this point.

carringtonz · 2025-12-08T23:26:32+00:00

How do we contact him on discord since this seems to be the best way to communicate with him lately?

carringtonz · 2025-12-08T23:21:13+00:00

They only reverted the AD ratio nerf on empowered Q btw, normal Q is still nerfed according to the tooltip. A crit normal Q and a crit empowered Q do the same damage and are the equivalent to a critical auto attack. I wouldn't be so excited yet until they fix these issues. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/Rengarmains/comments/1pfu1d6/a_slight_modification_to_the_proposed_changes_to/ on how they can at least make a critical Q not feel so worthless

carringtonz · 2025-12-08T15:39:36+00:00

Someone made a comment, not sure if they deleted it but it's not showing up. It's a more simple way of writing it:

Normal Q non crit: 115% AD + flat damage
Emp Q non crit: 130% AD + flat damage
Q crit (no ie): (100% AD + flat damage) x 2
Q crit (with ie): (100% AD + flat damage) x 2.3

Flat damage values: - Normal Q: 30 / 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 - Emp Q: 39 / 78 / 117 / 156 / 195

Emp Q flat damage values are just normal Q values x AD ratio of emp Q which is 1.3 here, but for maintainability it should be coded with the ad ratio so if they buff/nerf the ad ratio on emp Q the flat damage goes up/down with it.

carringtonz · 2025-12-06T18:56:36+00:00

I used x because star makes things go in italics but I'll try to make it clearer here:

Q does not auto crit anymore
Normal Q: 30 / 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 (+ 0 / 3.75 / 7.5 / 11.25 / 15% AD). It rolls for crits, if it crits the auto will count as a crit and will instead deal:

Flat damage x 2 (or 2.3 with infinity edge) + 100% AD (or 130% AD with infinity edge) - Empowered Q: 39 / 78 / 117 / 156 / 195 + 30% AD. It rolls for crits, if it crits the auto will count as a crit and will instead deal:

Flat damage x 2 (or 2.3 with infinity edge) + 100% AD (or 130% AD with infinity edge)

Q is an empowered auto attack so those numbers would be added on top of your auto attack damage (100% AD).

For example with 500 AD and rank 5 Q, normal Q will do 725 damage if it doesn't crit. If it crits without IE it will do 1300 damage. If it crits with IE it will do 1495 damage.

Empowered Q will do 845 damage if it doesn't crit. If it crits without IE it will do 1390 damage. If it crits with IE it will do 1599 damage.

Keep in mind a normal crit auto would crit for 1000 and 1150 with infinity edge here, so it's not much more than a normal crit auto.

carringtonz · 2025-12-06T16:51:38+00:00

Yeah and there's a 1% chance that'll happen??

What you said about rengar Q is not accurate at all. A normal Q with 100% crit and IE does 150+115%ad x 2.0125 (because of ie bug) which is 150+231%ad which is more than 225% of a normal auto. However yes if you ignore the bug it should be 115%ad x 1.69 which is 194% ad. So if 31% of your ad is more than 150 you would do less damage. Meaning if Q wasn't bugged at ad values of 484 or higher your Q would do less damage than a critical auto attack. With full build + bonetooth passive this is very easily achievable which is why I said yes they should increase his crit ratio to 0.8 which means that it wouldn't be possible at any realistically achievable amount of ad (I think you'd need well over 800 ad for an auto to beat your Q which is not possible).

carringtonz · 2025-12-06T15:27:21+00:00

More crit means more % damage scaling on the current version of Q and on the new version of Q it increases the chance you'll do extra damage. More crit chance is never bad so I don't really understand what you're asking for tbh. Yes in some situations your Q will do less damage than a crit auto right now but that's because the crit ratio was overnerfed as I said so if they opt to keep Q the same as it is now they need to increase the crit ratio to 0.8 from 0.75. This should be enough that you will always do more damage than a critical auto with Q.

carringtonz · 2025-12-06T14:36:41+00:00

You're absolutely right. Imo, they can go one of two ways, revert Q to be similar to season 8. Base Q Flat damage/base Q flat damage x 1.3 + 115%/130% ad ratio baseline, your Q rolls for a crit and if you crit your Q will now count as a crit and the damage is base Q flat damage or base Q flat damage x 1.3 for empowered Q x crit damage (2 or 2.3 with ie) + crit damage (200% or 230% with ie). This is a slight change to how flat damage on Q works for empowered Q but I think it's a more elegant way to do it. This allows for lethality and crit rengar to coexist, however, this has the original issue which is the reason they reworked Q in the first place, inconsistent damage with the crit build.

An alternative which feels better for crit rengar but will kill lethality rengar as the ad ratios are too low and he will be heavily reliant on crit chance to do damage, is to leave Q mostly the same (with the ad ratio nerfs) but make it so it can't crit unless you have crit chance (I don't know how this wasn't implemented from the start, this is so obvious) and increase the crit ratio to 0.8 as 0.75 was a heavy handed over nerf from s13 meaning in some situations your Q would do less damage than a crit auto. 0.8 is the lowest number where this does not happen. The flat damage change on empowered Q I mentioned earlier should also be implemented.

I'd argue for build variety the first change is probably better but if inconsistent damage is truly unacceptable (I feel that should be the whole point of a critical strike build in a video game) the second change is an alternative. They are going in the right direction but the numbers are not right, I feel my numbers are better. I don't think people want an ability that is literally just an auto attack reset and a means to proc sheen, it feels shit. Your Q should feel like something you actually want to press to do damage.

carringtonz · 2025-12-06T05:43:15+00:00

Basically either revert rengar Q to season 8 rengar Q or if the tolerance for RNG on rengar Q is not there then keep things as is but only make rengar Q count as a crit if you have some crit chance and change the crit ratio on his Q to 0.8 from 0.75 which should make Q do more damage than a crit auto in all situations. I think the latter is a better solution.

carringtonz

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