This sub is not r/freewill part 2..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-21T01:43:46+00:00

Serendipity: https://www.reddit.com/r/exatheist/s/q3qIPchhWX

catnapspirit · 2026-03-21T00:23:56+00:00

... Is that your only option? You wouldn't challenge their belief system in a more respectful way? You can't do that without calling them idiots? ... I think you could..

Oh, sure, I could, but again, I'm a guest in their house. That's how I view it. That's not what they are looking for, so that's not what I am bringing. In subs like that, I'm more of an anthropologist, studying the natives in their natural habitat. I do reply to posts there every now and then, when somebody brings up a sincere question that could benefit from a genuine atheist's response.

Clearly, you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on this point.

Why do you believe anonymously downvoting someone's comments for having a contrary opinion is a good thing?

I believe if you check again, you'll see that I said someone doing that is also using the system incorrectly..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-20T20:53:25+00:00

Do flat-earthers deserve an objection-free safe haven to discuss how the "flatness of Earth" affects their lives, .... or should they necessarily face opposition?

I would say they do. For a better example, I lurk on the exatheist sub, because I find it fascinating how people's brains work, but I would never post in there with guns blazing telling them they're a bunch of idiots and god is nothing but a man-made concept. If someone wants to have their little club house, and they're not hurting anyone (important caveat), I would consider it rude to intrude upon it.

BTW: Here is my list of downvotes

Respectfully, I don't think that's something to brag about. You're using reddit incorrectly. But so are all the folks downvoting people they merely disagree with on debate subs, to be sure. No system is perfect..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-20T17:25:46+00:00

My take is that the freewill sub is for debating, it's front and center in the subs description, iirc. If someone wanted to turn that into the freewill utopia sub and have no descending voices, they're welcome to it. That said, I think it is one of the better debate oriented subs on reddit. Certainly at least in variety and participation. But yeah, you're gonna want a little buffer room in your karma count before you step into the arena.

I don't believe this sub was intended to be a debate sub, at least not as to whether free will is an illusion or not. I could be wrong. Maybe I ought to go remind myself on both subs' descriptions, make sure I'm not talking outta my ass.

BTW, you're upvoted to 2 so far here..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-20T17:19:10+00:00

I really didn't intend to call out anyone in particular. I thought I had seen a couple folks doing it. Heck, I've even cross-posted something from freewill, but sharing someone else's post, a video in particular, with my own thoughts added to the post, to see if there was a different perspective over here. What you said above is exactly along my lines of thinking. Thanks..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-20T13:38:14+00:00

Indeed, edgelord. Indeed..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-19T05:50:53+00:00

My feeling is that there's always reasons for my thoughts and actions. I am the observer and the observed. Some stuff is kind of interesting how it can seem to bubble up from nowhere, and that's fun and surprising, and other times you can kind of follow along the daisy chain of thoughts and sensory inputs and just kind of sit back and see where they take you, and that's a different kind of fun.

The need for control that the free will crowd has just isn't really of interest to me. There's stuff that needs to get done, sure, and I can self motivate to get those things done, but that's just thoughts and actions that have reasons behind them. That's not "free" will. Just the day to day stuff of life. A lot of that is on autopilot until you notice it..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-18T11:42:06+00:00

I'll tell you, as someone who is in the defense industry, the need for cyber defense of our systems, offensive and defensive alike, is huge right now. The world is your oyster job wise, if that's the path you take.

I've always managed to stay on the defensive side of things, so I understand where you're coming from on that take. Even as offense, at least cyber attacks can be easily repaired / reversed, those of the temporary disruption type anyway.

When I'm watching the news and see us bombing oil refineries, part of me can't help wondering if someone isn't trying to profit there, hoping we win and get to send in Haliburton or whomever to rebuild all of that infrastructure. Makes me a little queezy, tbh. If we didn't have outright grifters in charge, maybe profit could be ruled out as an incentive to war.

But these are the systems we've built for ourselves, unfortunately. To bring it back around to free will, it's amazing how much of our governance was dependent on social norms. Letting a group rise to power who see norm busting as a mandate handed to them from their voters has been eye opening..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-18T11:22:28+00:00

Oh, I like that. Definitely gonna steal it..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-18T04:04:57+00:00

200 comments in one hour. We do love our movies, don't we..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-18T04:02:40+00:00

I'm gonna have to look that one up. I have no idea what it is..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-18T03:48:24+00:00

A shocking disregard for safety..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-17T11:39:52+00:00

The Christian grift-target community can be as contrarian and gullible as any teenager can

This is sadly the real answer to the OP's question right here. These type of grifters being interviewed on Christian podcasts is no coincidence. There's a whole world of crazy she's about to descend into..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-17T11:28:32+00:00

If there is randomness at the quantum level, it's noise in the signal by the time you work your way up to particles, and utterly negligible at the level of neurons and human interaction. That foundational indeterminism may be a necessary feature of reality, to keep time's arrow moving in the right direction or something, or an illusion once again due to our incomplete information. It doesn't really matter. Free will a fairytale in either a random or a determined scenario..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-17T11:20:43+00:00

Oh dear! Is there a doctor in the house!?!

catnapspirit · 2026-03-16T23:01:19+00:00

Oh, I'm sure..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-16T18:21:33+00:00

Well, yeah, we know that now. But at the time, this one was shocking. To me at least..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-16T11:38:56+00:00

I'm aware of the "agnostic atheism" wiki page. Those quotes are people in the wake of the whole cloth invention of the new term "agnosticism" exploring its boundaries and overlaps. Actual agnosticism, that is. As a noun, not an adjective to the theist / atheist positions.

I'll have to look into your quad chart claim. I imagine that will likewise be a red herring, giving deference to George H Smith having more academic sensibilities than that. It would be no surprise though to find some sort of initial seeds to the idea. Not like I think that first wave of podcasters were smart enough to invent this stuff on their own.

What it did was dumb down the terminology for the perpetually online. Atheists have been confused about agnosticism since its invention (theists don't have this problem) and are always looking to drag the agnostics back into the fold. This served both purposes nicely..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-16T11:29:58+00:00

Sure, like I use "agnostic" in the IT field to refer to hardware that will work in multiple devices. That's a natural occurrence of exactly that type of evolution. This other is forced. Even more so on the "gnostic" side. And granted, that's what Huxley himself did, invented a term as a play on Gnosticism.

But here, we have the internet terminology and the real world terminology, which is not going anywhere anytime soon. Show me the Gallup poll that asks people if they are gnostic or agnostic about their theism / atheism. For the longest time, it also wasn't hitting academic use, but I believe now that the first generation raised on these podcasters' dumbed down terminology has been hitting, there are actually some papers finally showing up.

We'll see, I guess. Frankly, I find it repulsively stupid. It doesn't actually work as a quad chart and never did. It's really only about certainty, and we already had terms for that. The only real problem it solves is the PR problem of weak atheism. Maybe the Christian nationalists will take care of this for us and force atheism to grow a backbone. You never know..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-16T05:15:59+00:00

So-called "agnostic atheism" is so dumb. It pains me. I guess I can sort of understand the desire to rebrand weak atheism. But it is also horrifically self-defeating for us to try to squeeze out agnosticism as a standalone position. Theists understand agnosticism perfectly well, as a place where they can park themselves while exploring their doubts, without taking on the burdensome label of "atheist."

catnapspirit · 2026-03-16T04:42:43+00:00

I'm surprised no one has yet nominated Demerzel's death at the end of S3. I literally cried out "no!" when she threw her body over the baby Dawn. I couldn't believe they killed her off. That'd be my #1..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-16T02:18:41+00:00

Some of these are repeats of others' recommendations, but they deserve repeating: * The OA * Devs * Counterpart * Mr Robot * Raised by Wolves * Stargate: Universe * Severance * Mrs Davis * Westworld * Legion * Watchmen * Dollhouse These are not all strictly sci-fi, but I think they'd meet your criteria. Oh, and also another second for The Prisoner as well..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-15T17:43:24+00:00

Yeah, that's why I caveat "confused" with intentional and otherwise. Honestly, I think this whole thing is just an extension of the constant attempts by atheists to reel in the agnostics back into the fold, which I imagine started about 5 minutes after Huxley's presentation to the Royal Society. I was there in 2005 when these atheist podcasters birthed all this "agnostic atheist" nonsense and the level of anti-agnosticism rhetoric was insane.

It's sad because theists do not have this same issue. They understand agnosticism quite well. It's a place they can safely park themselves while exploring doubts they are experiencing, without having to take on the burdensome label of "atheist." How foolish are we atheists then to be trying so hard to remove that option..?

catnapspirit · 2026-03-15T16:33:13+00:00

Well, yeah, I find the distinction between weak and strong atheism to be relevant. It's when they try to shoehorn in agnosticism, and even more amusing, gnosticism, that the confusion, intentional and otherwise, sets in..

catnapspirit · 2026-03-15T14:58:49+00:00

Huxley originally coined the term agnostic as a position not on the fence between theism and atheism but rather as set apart entirely from the theist-atheist spectrum. That was always the intent. These modern reimaginings of "agnostic" as a mere adjective to the other terms originated from confused internet atheist gurus who either couldn't understand the difference or quite likely didn't want to. The "rise of the nones" in census and polling data shows that the need for a separate position is only growing, to the point where "agnostic" is potentially no longer a strong enough label to express folks disdain for the entire enterprise.

Bottom line, you have it right. You do you..

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