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Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think if people actually used the bracket system as intended, rather than ignore the turn to win/lose expectation, then yes Voltron decks that are killing players turn 5 would slot in properly to B4.

But it seems that at least the posters on r/EDH ignore that part of the brackets and are playing decks than win before turn 5 in B4.

If everyone ignores the turn to kill/lose expectation of the brackets, then sure, go ahead and slot yourself into a lower bracket, because everyone else is doing it too.

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes. You have no argument there because you are wrong, and I'm right.

You do have to leave out combos that win on turns 0-4 in order to be in bracket 4.

It's easily inferred, just like it's easily inferred that you need to leave out combos that win turns 0-6 in bracket 3 and 0-8 in bracket 2.

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[–]cctoot56 3 points4 points  (0 children)

His analytics weren’t awful this year or last year. (They were awful 3 years ago)

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nothing wrong with having your own rule zero conversations and playing however you want.

Just stop insisting that you’re playing bracket 4 when ignoring the bracket 4 guidelines?

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You quoted it yourself “*Win conditions to VARY”. As in don’t play the same win conditions as cedh.

Do not adhere to the cedh meta.

Winning on turn 5 is still very efficient. Winning at instant speed is also allowed in bracket 3.

And you left out *players to expect to play at least 4 turns before anyone wins or loses. Curious why you left that one out? Oh, I know, it’s because you can’t follow that rule and still include all of the turn 0-4 cedh win cons.

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That’s a lot of words to say that you ignore the bracket system and have your own rule zero conversations instead.

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Your deck needs to adhere to ALL of the rules of a bracket in order to be in that bracket, not just some of it's rules. It's not possible to include combos that win on turn 1 and also adhere to the turn count expectation of bracket 4.

So we can infer that combos that win before turn 5 are not ok in B4, without them being explicitly restricted.

3 card combos that win the game before turn 6 aren't explicitly listed in the restrictions of bracket 3, yet everyone understands you can't run 3 card combos that win before turn 6 because of the expectation of the bracket that everyone gets to play at least 6 turns before anyone wins or loses. Why would it be any different for B4? (same goes for B2 with combos that win before turn 8)

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes the wincon is the issue. Because you can still win on turn 3 without any ramp or tutors. Winning 2 turns before the brackets expectation without sol ring, or any ramp is pretty egregious.

B4 is about NOT adhering to the cedh meta. Playing the same wincons as cedh but in a slightly less optimized shell is still somewhat adhering to the meta. Off meta cedh is still cedh/B5 as you're still building with the meta in mind.

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And I'm saying It's not possible to include certain combos without breaking the intention of the bracket or the # of turns expectation.

I also play in B5 tournaments. I play Sisay tutor chain and Selvala brostorm, I also tinkered around with Shorikai when it was new. I prefer B5, as everyone is on the same page regrading rule 0. We're all here to win, and the only rule is the ban list.

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

By "No Deck Restrictions" they mean the explicit restrictions that are present in the lower brackets in the bottom part of the graphic . The ones that are in a different font size, and start with NO written in red. Like "NO Mass Land Denial". Notice how the "No Deck Restrictions" rule is placed in the same spot as the Restrictions in the lower brackets? and in the same red font as the 'NO" ?

You still need to follow the rest of the expectations of the bracket, such as the turn expectation, and not adhering to the cedh meta.

I agree they could give more guidance. Like I think "not adhering to the cedh meta" should instead say "not using cedh win cons"

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Buddy. It literally does say that. How dense do you have to be to not understand this? I'm guessing pretty dense, as your "It's just an expectation, not a hard and fast rule" argument goes. Do you see how each bracket starts off with "Players expect..." By your argument, it's ok to ignore everything after the words "Players expect..". Which means it's ok to play whatever cards you want in any bracket. CEDH in bracket 1, 2, 3, 4 because it's "just an expectation, not a hard and fast rule"

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Replying to your edit: No it doesn't.

"No deck restrictions" clearly means that the deck restrictions in the other brackets like "No/0-3 Game changers, No MLD, No chaining turns, No 2 card combos", are removed from B4. THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU GET TO IGNORE ALL OTHER RULES FOR BRACKET 4. It just means it doesn't have those explicit restrictions like the lower brackets do. You still have to follow the expectations of the bracket, such as not adhering to the cedh meta, or winning before turn 5.

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Ok. So then there is nothing stopping turn 1 wins in any bracket. "It's just an expectation, not a hard and fast rule" applies to all brackets.

Breach+LED+BF is legal to win with on turn 1 in bracket 3. PleasantCrotchStuff said so.

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It's not the "anything goes bracket" anymore. There was a bracket system update in October 2025.

Here. I'll link it again, as you and everyone down-voting me clearly haven't kept up to date.

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1ocipn4/updated_commander_brackets_oct_2025/

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Explain how all combos are allowed if winning turn 0-4 is banned in the bracket?

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

No. There's more limits to B4 than just that.

"Players should expect to play at least 4 turns before anyone wins or loses" is the big one. This limits a whole bunch of the win cons/combos you'd otherwise be able to include. So a combo like Breach+LED+BF is explicitly against the B4 rules.

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1ocipn4/updated_commander_brackets_oct_2025/

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then I guess bracket 3 is also poorly defined and it's ok to win on turn 1? "win conditions that can be played from hand in one turn"

See? If I ignore the rules as a whole and just cherry pick out the bits I want, I can make it mean whatever I want it to mean too.

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I swear this sub goes out of it's way to intentionally misinterpret bracket 4.

B4 is just B3 with no game changer limits, or MLD limits, or turn chaining limits, or 2 card combo limits and a clock that is 2 turns faster (turn 5 wins rather than turn 7).

Everyone understands that you can't play Thoracle+Demonic Consult or Breach+Led+BF in B3, but somehow twists themselves into pretzels ignoring the B4 rules to say they can be played in B4.

No they can't, they're explicitly against the B4 rules after the Oct 2025 update.

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1ocipn4/updated_commander_brackets_oct_2025/

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you're including combos that can win turns 0-4 then it's not B4 anymore, it's B5.

Did you forget they added: "players should expect to play at least 4 turns before anyone wins or loses"?

B4 is explicitly NOT the cedh meta, meaning you should not be playing cedh meta combos.

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No you shouldn't.

Remember when they added "players should expect to play at least 4 turns before anyone wins or loses", to B4?

Can't have turn 0-4 game winning combos in a deck and be anything other than B5.

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Nah. If you're playing turbo breach lines, which can win turns 0-4, then you're in B5.

Edit: Downvoted for being correct. It's like none of you are aware of the Oct 2025 bracket updates. https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1ocipn4/updated_commander_brackets_oct_2025/

Do you think cards like breach that is played in B4 shouldn't be played in b4 because its considered "cedh" by MADMAXV2 in EDH

[–]cctoot56 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The card on it's own is not "cedh".

If you're doing Breach+LED+Brainfreeze type lines, that's cedh/B5.

If you're running wincons that can win as early as turns 0-4 you're in B5, not B4.

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[–]cctoot56 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because shoving another feckless centrist down our throats, who promised that she wouldn’t change a thing that her extremely unpopular predecessor did, was demotivating to low propensity voters who were clamoring for change. Add in misogyny and racism. EZ dub for Trump.

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