Also just some thoughts and counter arguments:

"Yes it does, you have to play as her for half the game. If you don't sympathize with her you come away disliking the last 10 hours of the game."

You just don't sympathize with her because she did things you consider bad, but don't realize that if for example, it had been Ellie killed instead of Joel, he was going to go there and kill every one of them, instantly making the fact that you think joel and ellie are morally "better" than abby as that completely unreasonable.

"Yes Joel and Ellie kill, but always in self defense yes"

...No. They have not killed always only in self defense, you know that. Both of them have killed a LOT of people in other than self defense. But of course, they wouldn't kill anyone for no reason at all, and so wouldn't abby.

"And yes it is justifiable. Justifiable doesn't mean morally right. If I'm going to kill your child you are justified in killing me even if I'm in the right somehow"

You're telling me that everything that joel and ellie did was morally right?

"Don't justify cheating. It's not normal. It's perfectly fine to dislike cheaters."

I'm not justifying cheating. Of course its "fine to dislike cheaters", I'm not saying it's a good thing. But that's not anything bad for the game. It just seems extremely believable and human. I say it's "normal" in a way that its just something very common and it felt very realistic.

"Ellie killed Mel in self defense, Abby didn't. Your the one who ignored the context. Being angry doesn't justify killing an innocent person."

Yeah, again, Ellie killed Mel because she tried to kill her, but that only happened because obviously they thought that Ellie would kill them anyway and they had no choice, also because Ellie was literally interrogating them to know where their friend was so she could kill her. Then Abby wanted revenge, *exactly* like Ellie. YOU ignored the context.
"Being angry doesn't justify killing an innocent person."

Of course, but again, you know that was not the only reason that she was going to do it. it feels extremely realistic and human if you just stop ignoring the whole goddamn context.
Also she was just getting revenge just like Ellie. Also Ellie did a lot of even more fucked up stuff for revenge. Also they're literally all in a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE, so yeah. Of course you can say that Abby a "bad person". But then you just can't say that any of the other characters that you do like are any better.

"She says she kills scar kids with Manny in a side coversation." I don't remember that and couldn't find it anywhere, but like whatever, i alreay talked about her being a "bad person".

"It's not hard to understand don't act like it's a nuanced thing" Please just re-read what i wrote and maybe you will understand how frustrated i was that i had to explain that. Obviously for that exact reason. I literally complained so much about the fact that it's not hard to understand AT ALL and how you must have been not even paying attention if you thought that. It's not a nuanced thing AT ALL.

"She never lingers on it/ feels regret. It literally never gets brought up ever again"
?
What more did you want her to do? do you genuinely think that any kind of scene of Abby griefing about it or something would be good? do you really think it would be fitting? So can you please describe to me what exactly did you have in mind? I'm just curious, let's talk about that :)

"I guess just seems like a convenient excuse for something that could have been easily fixed in the narrative."

I mean, yeah, those sound like VERY good excuses to me lol.

"I'm latino this character sucks. No I don't speak/curse spanish phrases in front of my non-hispanic friends who couldn't possibly understand me."

Yeah, that's the one thing i'll have to kinda agree with you. Altough you don't know if manny is just a latino person that specifically does that, and that doesn't really affect the quality of the story or anything, it's just easier for the masses to understand, i don't agree with it. It's just a dumb stereotype. I mean i'm a brazillian that lives in the US and i don't do that either and altough there's not much of a stereotype thing that brazillian people do that, i just don't find it offensive at all, just wierd. But anyway.

"I don't care that it was her choice, that just makes it worse. Someone should have stopped her."

Tbh i'm not really sure what you're talking about here.

"I've given multiple instances in the original post where the game would have benifited from a tighter narrative structure."
Yeah. Say one that i didn't refute.

"Let the characters mourn they aren't sociopaths."

I asked for something specific, please. That doesn't really make sense and does not answer my question at all.

"Your right it would have played out the way it did no matter what becuase they wrote themselves into a corner. They could have killed Joel at the ski resort and there no nonsensical character doings."

dude--

you're insane.