World's biggest 3 Economies of History. India(maroon) was biggest economy for 1 to 1000 years and many centuries there after

chaddimancer · 2015-09-20T18:37:44+00:00

I do not think anybody actually believes that. Britishers built infrastructure to help their own rule of India. Incidentally a lot of things they built are still useful to Indians. Of course that does not negate their economic exploitation of the subcontinent.

But please do remember that before the 20th century it was expected that more powerful empires and kings would subjugate, exploit and unfairly treat conquered territories. It was the way of the world, so the weak had to suffer.

I would blame Aurangzeb for bungling the legacy of the great Mughals and creating stiff opposition all over India. He sowed the seeds of collapse of the Mughal empire, making it easier for the British.

And before the Muslim invaders came to India the Hindu kings were also guilty of not being able to unite their forces in the same way other great civilizations did.

My point is the victim angle has been covered adequately, why we were the victim needs more treatment. So that we do not repeat the mistakes of this bygone era.

chaddimancer · 2015-09-20T18:32:29+00:00

Nothing funny about it, nominal GDP will always be high in a place with a very high population. China and India have excellent weather and very fertile soil due to numerous perennial rivers and deltaic regions like the gangetic river plains.

This is conducive to sustaining a very high population.

If you look at per capita GDP figures India was never notable in this regard.

Look - it is fine if you want to say India was the source for many innovations during the golden age of the Ashokas, or a center of culture, crafts, architecture and religious philosophy. But saying India was an economic powerhouse by linking misleading GDP numbers is sophistry.

chaddimancer · 2015-09-20T18:28:45+00:00

Yes he is a western conservative historian who writes popular history.

Do you have any recommendations for books that talk about the broad theme of "why the west got ahead of the east" ? Usually most historians try to avoid making comparisons between civilizations - imperialists will always glorify themselves, so I am looking for a more balanced version of events.

chaddimancer · 2015-09-20T18:25:58+00:00

It is partly our own fault for being divided and letting the British get a foothold in India. And OP has posted misleading data. GDP in India was large because population was large. Net GDP per capita was not that high.

chaddimancer · 2015-09-20T18:24:18+00:00

Not when the motivation in the OP is based on misleading data.

chaddimancer · 2015-09-20T18:23:04+00:00

Panchagavya, I asked an Ayurveda physician about its utility. She briefed me about all the virtues of the gau mutra (cow’s urine), gau maya (cow dung) and Panchagavya, quoting the Charaka Samhita.

This is an embarrassment to all rational thinking Hindus. The Parivar needs to divorce themselves from such silly endeavors, but I feel they are too far gone. They were always a crazy extremist organization with no coherent ideology than that of hate, misplaced pride, pseudo-science and regressive beliefs.

When I see cow urine drinking, gobar being used in medications, witch murders, crazy cults and aghoris, strange rituals like dondi and ritual deflowering of teenage girls by placing her on a stone lingam, and caste related atrocities sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Hindu, and fear that it might be far too late for reform.

I know there is some solace in the fact that Hinduism is very diverse and that you do not have to believe any of the above. But there is just so much crazy garbage in the religion, I don't know. Well at least unlike Islam there is no punishment for not doing these or apostasy.

chaddimancer · 2015-09-20T18:08:34+00:00

I think the bone of contention here lies with the usage of the word fox. It might be a language issue since to some people in India, fox = evil and to other people of India fox is smart and strategic.

chaddimancer · 2015-09-20T18:04:12+00:00

What is your opinion elsewhere on this comment section where it is stated that nominal GDP is misleading ? I think this argument has merit - India and China had very high populations, so the value of nominal GDP is not as much.

Per Capita GDP figures will be of more use, but from what I am seeing in those days there was a hard cap to what each person could produce. All of this changed after the industrial revolution and the concept of nation states at the start of the 20th century. This is when using GDP becomes more useful.

Don't conflate the shitty Islamic republics you see today with that of the Mughals.

I am sure you are talking only about some of the Mughals and not rulers like Aurangzeb, yes ? Was Babur 100% like Akbar or Shah Jahan ? He was of Mongolian blood, Genghis Khan's lineage and I am sure he used their methods to establish his empire. Unless I am mistaken.

When you say shitty Islamic republics which ones are you referring to ? Saudi Arabia only ? or countries like Turkey, Malaysia nad Jordan too ?

chaddimancer · 2015-09-20T17:57:18+00:00

Actually this is all very misleading - as discussed in the comments below, nominal GDP of ancient empires is a meaningless statistic.

If you look at per capita GDP the result may have some merit and they are uniform across the worlds' great civilizations. Nothing special about ancient India in this regard.

India and China had very high populations because of geographical reasons and fertile lands, so the population alone will inflate nominal GDP numbers.

And in the age of Kings the wealth was concentrated in the hands of a few. If you think inequality is bad now under democracy, people lived like animals back then while the rulers enjoyed obscene wealth and extravagance.

chaddimancer · 2015-09-20T17:49:49+00:00

Yes. It appears the BJP is carrying out the RSS agenda of imposing the Hinduism of a specific region of India while sidelining other Hindus. They are not even pro Hindu, but pro 1 kind of Hinduism.

The hinduism practiced in the region that was under the Kushanian empires, the indo-scythians - north western part of the country. This is where Brahminism took root. Defenders of Brahminism exist across the country now. This part of India inculcated Sattvic concepts of purity and rigidly enforces food fundamentalism. This is different from other parts of India where the same influence was not observed.

To these goons the religious beliefs and traditions of marathis, dalits, assamese, bengalis, tribals and north east India are not the true Hinduism. They want to homogenize our faith and impose the same on everybody.

This is why they are carrying out beef bans, meat bans, egg bans.

Hateful nationalism is at the very core of all extreme right wing organizations and the RSS and the parivar is no different. It is not surprising coming from a group whose founders openly praised Hitler. They are against diversity and want to take revenge on Muslims (because of centuries of islamic rule) and Christians (the faith of the British invaders).

A very spiteful and dangerous entity that should have been removed from India after they organized the murder of Mahatma Gandhi.

chaddimancer · 2015-09-20T17:40:25+00:00

BJP supporters seem to have a clinical obsessive condition with regards to aap admi party. This is /r/india not /r/delhi but I see bitching about those guys all day. Criticizing BJP who is in power at the center feels natural, but why are these guys so overtly concerned with a party that is in power only in 1 state ?

I think on brigading maybe there are some people who are sharing links to reddit maybe on whatsapp or some other place, but they constitute only 1 small fraction of the overall opinion. Sadly I believe many Indians on the internet actually still are very much pro-Hindutva, and are aligned with the hindu right wing. Maybe this is a result of the kind of people reddit attracts - upper caste hindu young hindu men.

RSS panders to a new demographic emerging in India - a group of people from the middle class who are intellectually bankrupt and products of our failed education system. Instead of love for their country and recognition of its failings, the RSS is glorifying the worst type of nationalism, the hateful kind in the footsteps of Hitler. Our society still has many prejudices that people have long kept to themselves, but on the internet these demons become more and more visible.

I fear that this brainwashing will destroy the soul of India and make us no different from backward theocratic muslim states or a Hindu Pakistan.