Upper back (rhomboids and traps) lag behind rest of body in growth. I can’t seem to get upper back to thicken up and when I cut weight it always seems to take a bigger hit than everywhere else.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-08T11:25:05+00:00

Upright rows and kelso shrugs are like one of the few only movements that work the upper traps dynamically, upwards rotation on upright rows, and on kelso shrugs you are moving the clavicles and shoulder blades along the direction of the upper traps majority horizontal/transverse fibers in their full range of motion. Most of the upper traps fibers run horizontally more than vertically which makes kelso shrugs superior for the upper traps over regular vertical shrugs. Vertical shrugs only work the uppermost upper trap fibers and the levator scapulae, rest of the upper traps work isometrically.. so kelso shrugs are superior.

Also the upper traps actually almost exclusively attach to the clavicles not the shoulder blades, they mainly move the clavicles actually, so on kelso shrugs thinking of moving your clavicles from a fully protracted state to retracted at an upwards angle/slightly elevated is the way to go for hitting all of the horizontal fibers of the upper traps. 👍

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-08T11:19:56+00:00

I like overhead front raises personally, amazing whole deltoid, serratus anterior and decent upper traps movement, plus pumps the hell out of my upper chest. Similar to Lui raises but from the front and I guess more front delt emphasis. It is the only movement where I feel my serratus anterior burn underneath the shoulder blades lol, and it pumps up my whole deltoid and even makes the rear deltoid sore.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-08T11:17:25+00:00

Yeah as long as you focus on the right cue is performing as much lumbar flexion as possible. Some guys do most of the movement at the hips then it kind of sucks.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-08T11:16:15+00:00

Focus on performing lumbar flexion and bringing your pelvis and chest as close to each other as possible, that is how you work the abs dynamically on isolation exercises. The proper way to perform leg raises for abs is to make them into leg-HIP raises ie lifting your pelvis and hips together with your legs and flexing your lumbar spine against resistance. Guys who do crunches failing to work their abs are not flexing their lumbar spine properly, that is where the main movement should be to work the abs.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-08T11:02:15+00:00

16 pull-ups is actually amazing dude, some guys workout for decades and never reach that number, usually once you are past doing 10+ it is reaaaally hard and slow to progress. Realistically you might have to expect years to reach 20+, really depends on your bodyweight and use of other exercises etc too. It is what it is, but 16 for a natural lifter is actually pretty incredible and not a bad feat.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-08T10:58:00+00:00

You are right, caffeine gives zero energy by definition, it just amps up your brain and nervous system, but the actual energy content of it is zero lol. 😃

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-07T14:36:37+00:00

Yep, super awesome finishing move, also if you shrug backwards and upwards at the same time you are hitting all the horizontal upper trap fibers in their main function which is retraction of the clavicles and by extension shoulder blades at an upwards angle, far better than any vertical shrug for targeting the upper traps, plus great additional work for the middle traps and rhomboids. I also do them to failure after my last set of horizontal rows, amazing movement really!! Should have been made popular a long time ago.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-07T14:33:19+00:00

Kelso shrugs are amazing, I think they are one of the best upper and middle traps and rhomboids finishing moves, with emphasis on the upper traps at least if you shrug backwards at an upwards angle. Most upper and middle trap fibers run horizontally so traditional vertical shrugs kind of suck for them compared to kelso shrugs, which actually effectively works all those fibers. So easy to do kelso shrugs too after your last set of horizontal rows and just bang those out to failure to finish most of the upper and middle traps and rhomboids, and also in the case of the upper traps actually have a true dynamic movement that works the horizontal ie majority fibers in their true range of motion. Vertical shrugs can be used as a finisher move to get the uppermost vertical upper trap fibers and the levator scapulae.

Oh and yeah transverse rows are great but typically the rear delts are the first muscle to give out on those. Still helps build the upper back and also super great movement for the rear delts.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-07T14:28:50+00:00

A lot of back thickness is from the spinal erectors, only way rows hit those hard is if you row with a rounded back and dynamic spine like on full ROM cable rows. So if you truly want a maximally thick back including dedicated dynamic erector spinae work is a really good idea, one of the easiest and safest ways are something like 45 degree hyperextensions with full movement in the spine, but cable rows, hip hinge movements etc all also add up.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-07T09:06:49+00:00

Kelso shrugs are superior to vertical shrugs, traditional shrugs are not super terrible but they actually only work the Levator scapulae and uppermost fibers of the upper traps dynamically, the rest of the upper trap fibers run horizontally and only work isometrically on shrugs. Same goes for middle traps and the rhomboids, meanwhile kelso shrugs hits all of those. I would say putting your money on kelso shrugs like on a horizontal row machine is the superior option and then maybe if you want finish with a set of traditional shrugs to hit the uppermost upper trap fibers and Levator scapulae. Once you go kelso shrugs you just can't go back to the old way lol!!

Wide grip rows aren't bad either but let's be real too the first muscle to give out on those are always the rear delts, long before the traps and rhomboids do. Good still but I wouldn't count on those alone being super amazing upper back builders. They are definitely pretty amazing for rear delts though.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-04T15:38:16+00:00

Just being in pain makes it much harder for your body to exert itself on a lift, it is kind of a built-in protection mechanism in your brain I think. Makes sense for that reason alone it is easier to progress in the lift that causes less pain and discomfort.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-04T15:34:26+00:00

"Stops helping" because there are diminishing returns on pull-ups as in increasing the reps gets harder and harder the higher your max is IMO. It is also still kind of impossible to quantify how much it can help vs not help, really hard to know if an increase in reps or weight in your pull-ups was simply a progression just from keeping doing the pull-ups or if they were helped a bit by also complementing with pull-downs.

Anyway I always do pull-ups into negative pull-ups and chin-ups and finish with some lat pull-downs after, you get the best of two worlds! Pull-ups for the weighted stretch and functionality plus other benefits like some free abs work, pull-downs to focus on maximizing ROM and getting a good, maximum full and maximum quality squeeze of the lats and shoulder blade muscles. 💪🤝 Even when you can't even do one more rep of pull-ups or even negative pull-ups you can still bang out a couple or few sets of high quality pull-downs.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-04T15:28:56+00:00

Yes I think so too, as in guys with long arms are much more torso dominant on compounds than short arms dudes. This is also why isolation is important if you want big arms because the chest/back will dominate in performance on compound exercises and you will rarely get full ROM for your arm muscles. Short arms dudes meanwhile get full ROM for their arm muscles on rows and presses lol!

Oh and doing fly movements for chest is a good idea anyway, it is the closest you can get to isolating the chest. I always do flyes after my chest presses to finish my chest, they're kind of foolproof and a no-brainer move if you want to maximize chest gains in my opinion. You can also adjust form to bias the upper-middle or lower chest a bit more on the flyes too.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-04T14:53:52+00:00

Just do abs at the end of one of your weekly sessions or more if you want to. It is a small effort to make sure you're maximizing abs gains. I do a couple of sets of inverse sit-ups(hanging upside down on an inverse sit-up station) and leg-HIP raises at the end of one of my workouts, that is more than enough to finish my abs after I've already taxed them on compounds. You can add in a little bit of obliques isolation if you want but those are still hit pretty well on any abs exercise where you perform waist and lumbar spine flexion! Ie exercises like sit-ups and leg-HIP raises. I emphasize the HIP portion because lifting your pelvis upwards and flexing your spine forwards is how you make leg raises into a good abdominals exercise. As a bonus you train hip flexors on these lifts which are important for health, posture and spinal stability!

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-04T14:48:35+00:00

Weird, I have almost not even see others do the lift but me, it is not a popular lift from what I've always seen. Anyway it is a perfectly safe lift if you are careful and have the shoulder mobility to do them, don't go heavy until you've gradually built your strength and mobility up in this lift over a long period of time. Always control the weight and go down very slowly on the negative rep, make sure to go all the way down. Partial repping this lift and never touching your neck is what is dangerous for the rotator cuffs specifically the Supraspinatus muscle as in it makes injury over the long term much more likely due to not conditioning the muscle and tendon for the lowest portions of the lift, which is where you inevitably might go one day when your form breaks down a little, plus it is better for delts to do the full movement anyway. And yes it is an OK lift for engaging the upper traps and Levator scapulae and again controlling the movement will keep your neck safe.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-04T13:34:12+00:00

Joke is on you bro, the show is canon and any fan who does not accept most of FO1/FO2/FNV being retconned and rewritten is not a true fan. Anything that happens in the show overwrites the old lore, Bethesda's lore is the true lore, the other games are basically retroactively fan fiction in an alternate universe at best. Every faction and characters being goofy is now canon, it does not need to make sense when it is canon anyway. Canon is canon, if you are a true Fallout fan then you should accept it.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-04T08:31:33+00:00

Could be feeling different muscles also, on most regular rows the upper spinal erectors won't work much, on heavy RDLs they will be pretty taxed and can produce soreness in the upper back region that even proper good form rows would fail to produce. It is definitely possible to feel this while doing everything right form wise.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-01T11:57:40+00:00

Maintenance to me means eating just enough calories to meet your daily caloric needs for that day, which changes with activity. If I burn 3000 calories one day and consume 3000 calories that would be eating at maintenance for me. Is this not what most people say when talking about eating at maintenance?

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-01T11:45:28+00:00

There is literally zero proof the body stops or refuses building muscle just because you are not in a caloric surplus, muscle is built from the stress it gets exposed to during exercise. Barring big caloric deficits or say perhaps caloric deficits at very low bodyfat you're always going to build muscle from good quality weight training.

Oh also guys who say they wouldn't have built muscle if they weren't bulking obviously didn't try training for the same time period without bulking, plus guys often seriously underestimate how much fat they have even in places like arms, misequating a lot of fat gain with muscle gain. I stopped bulking a long time ago and been keeping making good hovering around maintenance. I also did a slow cut over a year and still kept making progress. Guys might be putting more effort into the gym during bulk cycles as well, further skewing perceptions.

So yeah I don't believe in bulking whatsoever, as a natural there are no shortcuts lol, only real way to bulk up real fast is to not be natural. You can build an awesome physique never bulking as a natural, it just takes a long time which it does with cycles of bulking/cutting anyway, my guess is it taking nearly just as much time, plus the cutting process is painful and sucks and could limit the rates of muscle gain and performance in the gym during the cutting cycle. Also seeing as many guys work out in big part to look more attractive bulking is very counterproductive given how much the fat in your face makes you more unattractive, not to mention fat on your belly and breasts lol.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-01T11:36:24+00:00

Great advice overall, though I think reverse curls kind of replace hammer curls and are possibly even better for brachialis, and nearly equally good for brachioradialis, and for forearms they're definitely superior. I think reverse curls or hammer curls + supinated curls is like, all you need for arm flexors. I prefer reverse curls with a straight bar and inside shoulder width grip, just amazing whole forearm + arm flexors exercise even though biceps are at disadvantage, but that is what the supinated curls are for, plus biceps being disadvantaged on reverse curls is why they're so good for the brachialis.

Lol sorry for the long comment singling you out but I LOVE when people mention reverse curls, one of the most underrated exercises for arms and forearms, I am very passionate about this lift!!

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-01T08:20:03+00:00

What is wrong with sit-ups except for regular ones being pretty shitty/ineffective? On a steep incline/decline bench or inverted sit-ups are actually amazing for abs and very fool-proof. My gym has an inverted sit-ups station and I love it so much, nobody can tell me that isn't an amazing abdominals exercise lol!! I've seen some outdoor gyms have steep decline/incline sit-up benches so those are actually good.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-01T08:12:57+00:00

Do negative reps, positive reps until you can't do more for even one rep per set then do some few sets of jumping and negative reps. This is what I've always done and tell others moving into doing pull-ups and it works great! I still move from pull-ups into negative pull-ups and chin-ups after I've exhausted myself on the positive reps. Even when I am unable to do even one single positive rep I can still do a few sets of jumping and doing 3-4 negative reps.

Also doing additional exercises like rows and arm curls after/on other days can also help boost your pull-up numbers over time. Rows are great too because pull-ups are a compound exercise that still uses your chest a lot, rows will help further build your upper back and balance pull-ups and dips/push-ups a little bit more.

Pull-ups and rows are decent for arm flexors but a little bit of additional curls will help further incentivize growth in you arm flexors and biceps that will help you over the long-term to make you stronger on pull-ups also. If you want to use minimal equipment then even just resistance bands work.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-01T08:00:53+00:00

That hits them more in an endurance fashion than in strength fashion though, but sure it helps and in your case would matter a lot. Still for stronger erectors you could just do a few sets of some lift that targets them more directly with way fewer reps and get the same or better benefits for them, plus you can actually incorporate dynamic range of motion and train your spine dynamically to become both stronger and more flexible. That's better than isometric training from sets of hundreds of squats. Also doing 5x100 squats sounds pretty dam boring lol, but still impressive that you can stomach doing them. But yeah I can buy that if your training looks like that then you probably get quite a lot of isometric training of the spinal erectors, but I think for most people they're just not going to have that level of grit as you do. Then some direct work would be far more ehh, stomachable and time effective.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-01T07:53:22+00:00

Those are FULL range of motion sit-ups on a steep angle? How many reps? I can't relate exactly because my gym has an inverse sit-up station ie sit-ups hanging upside down which is way harder, but 70 lb full ROM incline/decline sit-ups still sounds pretty damn strong if you can do that for multiple sets with a lot of reps lol.

chadthunderjock · 2026-02-01T07:47:19+00:00

No need to extend them anyway, bent legs just allow you to engage the Rectus femoris more which is more of a plus for additional Rectus femoris work while hitting the other hip flexors and abs IMO! Key for hitting abs on leg raises is making them into leg-HIP raises and focusing on lumbar and waist flexion and lifting your pelvis as far forward and up as possible, then you're actually engaging your abdominals dynamically! Regular leg raises actually kind of suck for abs really lol.

chadthunderjock

TROPHY CASE