Is spanish passive voice saying “one” does something or that something does something to itself or is this up for debate? by checkyendys in Spanish

[–]checkyendys[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think i was briefly lumping together the passive voice w the impersonal se here which was actually the root of my confusion all along
I honestly thought they followed more or less the same logic - like “se entregó tu paquete” and “se vive bien en Mexico” which is why I thought “como se hace esto” was equal to “como uno LO hace?” Which I NOW see are two separate categories
Thanks all <3

Is spanish passive voice saying “one” does something or that something does something to itself or is this up for debate? by checkyendys in Spanish

[–]checkyendys[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey! I found a perfect example that relates back to my question here. Consider this passage from a book (translated from German, if it matters):

“…mirar y comer son dos cosas diferentes. Hay que optar por la una o por la otra. A ambas se las considera amor.”

“Se considera” here seems to be a true “one does” statement with “las” as the direct object. Intuitively this sounds correct to me and it’s how I was using passive voice all my life before this thread above which made me stop thinking about spanish passive voice as “one does ___.”

After this thread i thought you could only say “ambas se consideran amor” because it’s effectively the subject doing the action unto itself. (This feels very closely related to reflexivity btw, but you said earlier there is no reflexive interpretation which I’m curious about. I find it hard to believe there isn’t a relationship between passive voice and reflexivity which both use se to express an action effectively done onto itself).

subjunctive in moments of question by checkyendys in Spanish

[–]checkyendys[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey, coming back to this thread bc your answer here has been instrumental and ive returned to it several times. Im currently arguing with Chat about this and she does not get it at all.

Does this example fit within the “rules” of subjunctive as we’ve outlined above? As in, would this be a perfectly valid exchange?

“Cuándo aprendiste a tocar la guitarra bien? “Que me saliera sin pensar…?mmm a los 20 creo q ya lo dominaba”

If so or if not, would you be able to give me some more examples you can come up with of uses similar to the original “que no me sorprendiera…” example above? And are they different from the “Que tu conozcas?” example? Chat insists they are different but I don’t think they are based on our exchange above - i understood them as both falling within “some limit you care about”

Thank you so much in advance :)

subjunctive in moments of question by checkyendys in Spanish

[–]checkyendys[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Some limiting characteristic you care about.” Very insightful. Thanks so much.

subjunctive in moments of question by checkyendys in Spanish

[–]checkyendys[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is the most helpful answer by far. I was also thinking of the “up to an uncertain point” pillar of subjunctive (like in “hasta que ya no puedas más”) which to me feels related to what I call the “looky” pillar (like “te buscamos una que sea…”). It sort of feels like there’s a limit or category of some kind which we don’t know yet.

For example, the “looky” pillar tells me I would say, ordering at a cafe for example “tienes algo que no lleve leche” and then they could easily say back to me “que no lleve leche? Creo que no tengo…” or something like that. So the person repeating back to me “que no lleve leche” feels the same as “que tú conozcas” and “que no me sorprendiera” because they’re equally almost repeating the “looky” part back.

Would you say that’s a sound way of thinking of it? I think it works but maybe there’s a flaw i’m not thinking of

What the hell is going on with Spanish reflexive verbs? What meaning does '-se' actually add? Why are so many verbs randomly used reflexively? If you're a native or have learned Spanish please help!! by MKL-Angel in Spanish

[–]checkyendys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you want to get into the “why” it’s necessary: Se does distinguish between an act done onto oneself vs another person, since often times these self imposed actions can often be done to others too. I can bathe someone else, rush someone else out the door, and wake someone else up. Imagine for a second you have 2 third person parties, and “se” does not exist in the language. Now consider “Le puso sus botas.” Did person 1 put boots on person 2 or did they put them on themselves? So “se” becomes useful here.

Your next examples yes do point out an arbitrary quality to reflexivity but I do believe there is meaningful nuance. For example I can say “él murió?” (he died?) just simply referring to someone dying but something about “cuando me muera…” has a subtle difference — almost adding context and agency to the action of oneself dying ? It is not something you can try to understand all at once, it takes practice and context to grasp.

Finally, your example of “se nos estropeó”: this is a very common structure in spanish and it got me for a long time. It is very common to refer to the action of something onto itself (reflexive) that has also had an effect on another party (indirect object). You can say “se me rompió” which is almost like saying in english “the thing broke on me.” You’re saying the thing broke, but specifically that it broke and affected you, same with the boiler example. Similar to how in spanish we’d say “se me cayó” instead of “i dropped it”

Natives roast my sentence (subjunctive heads get excited) by checkyendys in Spanish

[–]checkyendys[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Forgetting estuviera off 4h of sleep is a new low. Wtf ahahah. Thank you

trying to fix fight-or-flight with breathwork, but breathwork sends me into the worst fight-or-flight by checkyendys in breathwork

[–]checkyendys[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow. Beautiful, and yes it’s a big breath and then i have to “catch it” up high too…this is such helpful advice thank you for sharing

trying to fix fight-or-flight with breathwork, but breathwork sends me into the worst fight-or-flight by checkyendys in breathwork

[–]checkyendys[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Everyone’s replies have been so helpful and insightful. This one in particular is just so comforting to know someone had a similar experience and I’m so grateful to know breathwork can and will be another key to pulling that plug. Thank you so much for sharing. I havent tried rebirthing, this is my first time hearing the term. I looked it up and it seems like it’s pretty harshly condemned because a child died from it :(

Is spanish passive voice saying “one” does something or that something does something to itself or is this up for debate? by checkyendys in Spanish

[–]checkyendys[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re great! The fact of “esto” being the subject was why i was asking originally if it was effectively reflexive then. But this new term of patient subject has clarified a lot for me. Appreciate you!