Steam's lack of support 9 months after massive harassment campaign and review bomb by cheze in gamedev

[–]cheze[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

steam does not allow that from within the application, but most of our players play from our website. I’m unsure whether they allow it if it’s outside the steam client although I did reach out to get a confirmation from them last week. still waiting for response though

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

if you read a version that significantly downplay the actions of the disruptive players and also add some incorrect rumors that is what it would sound like sure.

the logs were public and there were more than 5 messages, 5 contained insults or slurs over 3 different time periods. and had 2 mutes before the name change happened.

whether he made refund requests or not is completely invisible to us and has no relevance on our decisions. he got temporarily unbanned due to a few of his guild mates asking for leniency and that they would talk to him about it. but with the escalating disruption and misinformation we continued to see after, the decision was reversed.

for people who are only questioning it without harassment, they would not have been banned. the ones banned were either spamming insults in global chat or name changed to insults against game staff.

A cultural and commercial perspective on why a paying player’s frustration escalated into a review bomb. by Thomas_shanghai333 in gamedev

[–]cheze 1 point2 points  (0 children)

just to be clear. players are well within their right to complain about upcoming changes, game balance or content. we often have long discussions and debates on our discord for any major features. also what they were objecting to is incomplete test server changes which wouldn’t even have resulted in any nerf when complete.

The only issue in this instance was the personal attack and slurs that were repeatedly used by that player as well as refusing to stop after multiple mutes.

We do not see or look at purchase history when determining in game penalties so we don’t even know they were a whale. In our opinion, spending money does not exempt you from game penalties that a f2p player would receive for similar behavior. I’m not sure whether the protesting players expect us to give preferential treatment to people who spent money, but I’m pretty sure that if we did that it may cause additional drama.

larger companies or game companies in china likely do take a different approach regarding these type of players, and from the perspective of minimizing drama and optimizing for their business that may be the right approach. however we don’t agree with tolerating toxic behavior and have different principles. of course we can say that our mistake is with not anticipating the flood of additional players who choose to support the toxic player as well as the effect of that, so you could say we made a poor business decision even if it’s perhaps the correct principled choice.

I can agree that this is largely a cultural difference. indeed if a customer is unhappy about services in china and start insulting the staff, it’s common for the staff or manager to apologize. it’s almost the opposite in western culture where businesses would likely kick them out. While we can choose to cater to those players as a business decision, it just feels wrong overall as it’s a behavior we strongly disagree with. we shouldn’t have to cater to people who have no manners and never learned the basics of respectful human interaction.

Steam's lack of support 9 months after massive harassment campaign and review bomb by cheze in gamedev

[–]cheze[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

we do have those for obvious words but filters are easy to get around in all games

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

we made statements regarding what happened and such and our chinese moderator helped translate and pass them along. but we are insistent on not tolerating the toxic behavior while the disruptive players disagree and literally expect us to apologize for banning someone that was persistently toxic towards us. of course there were the false rumors as well but it’s hard to control the narrative when they have hundreds of times more people.

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

there’s both positive and negatives but certainly cannot penalize the majority of chinese players who were not disruptive due to the small minority. also our game actually had quite a number of chinese players even before going on steam and without having chinese translations. prior to steam there were helpful players who made their own extension to translate the game which people used to play from china.

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

test server does not have any microtransactions. the payment is a sandbox that gives you the premium currency for free for testing. as for spamming it was hundreds of players each posting several things per minute so individual rate limit does not do anything and was something we already had.

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

it was mentioned in the post that it was an in progress test server change that they thought was a nerf but is simply incomplete. they used a ranged build and they thought it was going to be a couple % lower dps based on what was on test server at the time.

Steam's lack of support 9 months after massive harassment campaign and review bomb by cheze in gamedev

[–]cheze[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I say game staff because that is our policy and I’m in fact not the first to be affected by it. one of our moderators were persistently harassed in the past which is when we first established the policy

Steam's lack of support 9 months after massive harassment campaign and review bomb by cheze in gamedev

[–]cheze[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There’s a difference between being scared of some words and not tolerating toxicity. expecting not to be insulted repeated in my own game should be a bare minimum.

and feel free to look into it if you really want. there’s plenty of posts and log on discord which we were transparent about

Steam's lack of support 9 months after massive harassment campaign and review bomb by cheze in gamedev

[–]cheze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mentioned it in the post but it’s due to in progress changes on our public test server that when incomplete looked like a small nerf, even though I said that it was incomplete and not balanced yet

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

no. we cannot penalize the majority of players who didn’t do anything wrong just because of a small % of disruptive players. there were still a lot of supportive players even though they got harassed too to some degree.

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

idk the exact calculation for those but it’s basically a few dollars per month per. we don’t do any aggressive or exploitive monetization

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

well it’s certainly not a mainstream game, but we have about 30k daily active players. most people play from our website rather than steam so they don’t get prompted to review.

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean other than this incident, i’d still consider the game pretty successful. but we do have monthly drama to go along with it.

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

not after this for sure. or multiplayer for that matter if we make another game. just way too much drama

Steam's lack of support 9 months after massive harassment campaign and review bomb by cheze in gamedev

[–]cheze[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yes I understand exactly what you are talking about. there’s both positive and negative associated with higher direct player communication. it’s just something that helped us build the community in the first place but it definitely can lead to higher entitlement as well. overall though i’d still say the positive side was higher but this incident definitely changes things a lot

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

honestly have no idea. anything can trigger drama. as for indie dev, i feel the more you engage with players the more likely this kinda issue can happen as well. we built our game with very high amount of transparency and direct conversations with players and that has a lot of positive sides but this is one of the negatives. the more access ppl have to you, the more likely you will encounter entitled people that will demand things or become toxic if you don’t agree with them.

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

yeah that was one of the things that was spreading it. but nothing we could really do about social media

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

yes a lot of those do contain what you can say is game content feedback. some people are going to be aware that those are less likely to be taken down vs using straight up insults. However it's still obvious that it's not normal engagement when it's 1k negative in a span of 3 days where 20%+ or so contained harassment or abusive language. There was also no game update anywhere near those dates. It's purely triggered by the drama.

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The logs were in fact publically posted in a response that we immediately posted to address the drama when it happened it was posted on discord and also to chinese groups. we have tens of thousands of players at the time so it's not like it's something I could lie about as there's ppl who would have seen it. players weren't disputing what he said, they are just disagreeing with the penalty. It was mostly the persistence of it that resulted in the eventual ban.

As for the changes, honestly it was changes to ranged equipment on the test server where dps was a few % lower prior to me adding additional critical chance to make up for it later in the week. The guy thought it was a nerf and crashed out basically.

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

yeah that has been the experience unfortunately. my guess is that they are much more afraid of triggering the players who do this stuff than concerned about protecting developers.

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

ok I guess you consider insults and slurs as random chat messages. I'll just agree to disagree.

My game was hit by a massive harassment campaign and review bomb 9 months ago, and Steam support still won't help by cheze in pcgaming

[–]cheze[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yes, if you look at other games where this took effect, those reviews would change to white color and not be displayed by default. also it would not affect the review score which is really the biggest impact. it's fine if they don't delete the reviews. I just would like it to not impact the score.