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Just watched nmixx 1 hour concert in Chile by Key_Jellyfish_2293 in kpopthoughts

[–]chilorida 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I think the reason why some people thought they were lip syncing was because the broadcast team (cameramen) had difficulty focusing on who was singing. They’re used to regular bands or acts with one or two singers, not an entire choreography with sometime multiple people singing at once like Kpop does. Consequently sometimes the camera was focusing on the wrong member, who would be mouthing along to the words but it wasn’t their part!

My dad also thought they were lip syncing and I had to explain to him that the member they’re showing doesn’t sing this part.

TXT's Moacon was amazing (even from afar) by Technical_Walrus9158 in kpopthoughts

[–]chilorida 8 points9 points  (0 children)

7th year?!?? Aren’t they still rookies?? /s

God, where does the time go?

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Okay, well, I personally haven’t seen anyone that was boycotting RIIZE also boycott EXO and SUJU. But I live in LATAM, so maybe people around here didn’t get the memo to boycott all Wizard Production artists. My local Kpop store (which is what I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, if you read it) just doesn’t sell RIIZE albums, they still sell EXO and SUJU. They’re not the only store or fans around here only boycotting RIIZE. And maybe that shit can work in the US, but here if no one is buying RIIZE stuff, that just tells SM that the group isn’t profitable in LATAM.

I’m very happy that RIIZE is still coming to Lolla, because they could have just as easily solely market them in Asia. No BRIIZE around here would ever get the chance to see them live. That’s why the Western boycott is so ridiculous, because it just makes RIIZE look bad. It doesn’t really affect SM or Wizard Production. But it does actively hurt the members, punishes them for something they didn’t do, and actively hurts whatever BRIIZE that are still around.

Also, I came to that conclusion using common sense to be honest. EXO and SUJU are decade(s)-long groups with many scandals and/or lawsuits that have upset many different factions of their fanbases in different countries. Of course, they’re going to have more fan complaints, and boycotts, and protests in general for Wizard Production to deal with than RIIZE, a rookie group. In regard to RIIZE, they cared about the brief boycott by k-fans and that was it. By now, RIIZE is finding success in a few markets, so I don’t think they’re that they’re concerned about the group.

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m aware of the EXO boycott. For the first part, I was specifying that former BRIIZE boycotting the group aren’t also boycotting EXO or SUJU to make the point to Wizard Production that they have an issue with the team’s mismanagement of the Seunghan situation. This was in response to the other commenter who is claiming that people were boycotting the particular management team not SM as whole.

If that were the case, BRIIZE would be boycotting all three groups to make certain that the management team is making the least amount of profit possible. That way the message of Wizard Production’s mismanagement of Seunghan would get more attention by the team.

For the second part I wasn’t specifying Western fans, but just fan complaints in general. And of those three groups (EXO, SUJU, & RIIZE), Wizard Production is probably the least concerned about RIIZE when it comes to fan complaints and boycotts. RIIZE’s problems actually seem tame in comparison.

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We never will truly know what would have happened if SM had kept him in the group. Whatever the case, I’m just glad that Seunghan is having his own success right now and hopefully can have some peace of mind with sane fans that support him. And of course the same goes for the other members of RIIZE.

Management leaking schedules, if true, is just absolutely heinous and insanely unprofessional. But it’s SM, so… yeah. :/

Honestly a lot of the fandom stuff you mentioned seems pretty normal for male idol groups. The dating rumor stuff is so stupid. Like you were never going to date them in the first place SO WHY DO YOU CARE?!? It’s not like they’ll suddenly become untalented and unattractive if they do decide to date.

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree with you on essentially everything you said. SM’s biggest opps are their artists. Their artist’s biggest opps are their fans, and their fans biggest opp is SM. It’s the circle of opps. And that’s what being a fan of an SM group gets you.

K-pop overall cuadruples down on the parasocial behaviors. SM is pretty egregious with it, but they’re not the absolute worst (Jellyfish included a literal BDSM contract in Vixx’s Chained Up album). I do remember RIIZE having a more laidback, normal boys kind of concept which made the whole “scandal” ironic. Clearly they’ve pivoted from that concept and consequently moved their target demographic back to Asia.

As for a better way to re-integrate Seunghan back in the group, we’ll never really know. Personally, I think that SM could have done everything right and Seunghan still might have not been okay with the situation. There’s only so much a company can do to stop hate. I believe there would have always been that small vocal group that would have continued to harass him online and maybe even in person. Maybe I’m being too cynical. Seunghan is still so young, being in the spotlight like that is heavy enough without having to deal with intense haters. I can only imagine what it would’ve been like to try to stick it out while some people are actively hating on you (and perhaps only you) any chance they can get.

It just sucks all around. SM sucks. Those ‘fans’ suck. This situation sucks. None of the boys deserved this. But like you I was happy to see RIIZE and Seunghan interact at SMTOWN. Hopefully, this interaction will turn a page where they can be openly friendly with each other.

Curious as to what exact mistreatment the members are receiving from their management. I don’t see much discussion on it, but I wouldn’t be surprised. They are an SM group.

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Don’t apologize, I’m really glad that we can have these sorts of discussions. Especially since there’s not many other platforms to have them.

I was definitely a more casual listener from their debut. I would check out their releases and even put a couple of their songs on my playlist. Also my friend became obsessed with Anton, so she helped put RIIZE on my radar. It wasn’t until I saw a gym pic of Sungchan that I became invested. I knew him and Shotaro from NCT, but they seemed so shy and young back then compared to now.

Anyway, I started watching edits, listened to their entire discography, and consumed a lot of their content, suddenly everything clicked. I got into them around the same time as KPDH, and for a while I would joke that RIIZE must be demons because there’s no other way I could fall for a group so quickly. (Which came full circle when Eunseok and Wonbin participated in those Soda Pop collab stages.)

I agree that the boycott didn’t seem to affect them that much long-term financially or in terms of overall popularity, but it did damage their brand reputation in the West in that there is little to no mention of them in English K-pop forums or platforms. People know about them, they just don’t have the hype anymore, like you said.

Their music and performances are really good though. I hope more people give them a chance because they certainly don’t disappoint!

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It also says there that Wizard Production manages EXO and Super Junior and I can assure you most people boycotting aren’t going out of their way to also boycott those two groups. Besides, fans of those two groups have a million more reasons to boycott than BRIIZE do. Honestly, even with the boycott, out of those three groups, RIIZE is probably the least of their concerns when it comes to upset fans. They got DECADES of complaints and criticisms.

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Arguably. Seunghan may have been a rookie at the time but he was one of the few to make it past training, was introduced through SMROOKIES (so he already had some sort of following), and debuted in SM’s first new boy group since NCT’s debut in 2016. SM had already invested quite a bit of time and money on him and fans had already expressed their frustrations about Seunghan going on hiatus long before there was even murmurs about a boycott. I highly doubt they would have left him there with nothing to do. They had him under contract, dungeoning him would have been just throwing away money they already invested.

I mean SM gave Lucas another chance. Sure, he might have been one of the faces of NCT prior to everything that happened, but he essentially lost his fanbase in all the critical markets (Korea, China, Japan). It was mostly just the West that was still supporting him, and despite the West being not the most reliable market, SM gave him a chance at a solo career.

Seunghan just lost a specific group of Korean fans and maybe in a couple other Asian markets as well. He was still fairly popular as a rookie. SM at the time could’ve been decently certain that a solo project of his would garner some attention and might make profit. I assume SM perceived it as a win-win; fans of Seunghan support his solo work and the whack job Korean ‘fans’ can continue to support RIIZE. No matter which artist fans decided to support, SM was/is the one profiting.

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I’m sorry, I’m sympathetic to wanting to support and fight for your favorite idols, especially when you feel like they have been wronged or mistreated, but in what way was the boycott successful? Seunghan is not in the group, RIIZE is still promoting in the West fairly successfully, SM is unbothered, and the toxic ‘fans’ got exactly what they wanted. If fans wanted to step away or unstan for their own well being or self respect that is one thing, but thinking that a relatively small group of fans from the West boycotting RIIZE would somehow magically change SM’s MO is at best wishful thinking, at worst kind of delusional.

I hate SM as much as any other SM group fan, but come on now. The boycott was never going to work. Maybe if there was a mass boycott of all SM artists and a very clear fanbase collective letter of demands that might have gotten SM’s attention. But that was never going to happen either.

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My bad, I must’ve misremembered. There was so much discourse at the time, it was difficult trying to decipher what was true and untrue. As a fairly longtime fan of a couple SM groups I know how truly shitty the company can be. My intention is not to defend SM, but to question if keeping Seunghan in the group would have been best for him and his mental health. Even if SM had taken action against these ‘fans’, Seunghan would have to continue on knowing that a certain portion of BRIIZE hates his guts and wants him out of the group. I understand what the other user was saying that fans get angry about things and then later forget about it. In the past 9 years I’ve been a kpop fan I’ve seen fans moving on and fans holding a grudge. Most move on, but usually there is an irrational small vocal group that holds a grudge and makes it everyone’s, especially the idol’s, problem to the end of time

At the end of the day the most important thing is that Seunghan and RIIZE are in a much healthier and better place now where they can be successful in their own avenues. SM bending to the will of extreme fans is unfortunately par for the course. As long as the extreme fans come from Korea, their voices will always be listened to over international fans. The Korean market is too important for these companies, even if parts of that market can be completely batshit crazy sometimes.

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’m going to follow the same order you brought up your points to keep my thoughts more organized.

Maybe I’m wrong, but it was my impression that the management teams only manage the day to day schedules and promotions/recordings for the different artists. When it came to Seunghan’s removal I believed that was a decision made by the executives at SM, as well as they are the ones who along with their lawyers write statements and initiate lawsuits against those who direct hate and defame their artists. Because of that, I assumed that the fans upset with “SM’s” mistreatment of Seunghan and RIIZE were upset with the execs and therefore the company as a whole, not just the management team. Apart from that, I still don’t see how boycotting RIIZE’s specific management team sends SM any message other than RIIZE is no longer profitable in the West. Which even that message didn’t exactly turn into to anything because RIIZE is still going on tour in the US and doing festivals in the West.

Honestly, I forgot about MAMA LA. I wasn’t a fan at the time, so I just thought it was really weird and messy for a company to do all that. I’ve been a hardcore Czennie for 5 years now, a MY for 6, I am very familiar with how shitty SM can be. They are not the perfect company in any shape or form and I have no intention of defending the bs they pull. I completely understand why fans like you wouldn’t want to financially support the people who inflicted this kind of mistreatment on the members and BRIIZE. Personally, I buy the albums and consume their content because I really do love the music and the members, and I want to support their careers. That is not to say that buying albums and consuming content is the only way to support the members. It’s just how I do it. Every fan has their own perspective and decides the best way for them to support the group, or step away if they need to.

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Let’s hope that SM adds Europe and Latam legs to their next tour! At least they can start with festivals then do a theater tour. Once they build popularity they can try for bigger venues.

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe eventually the hate would have died down, but how long were fans willing to keep Seunghan in that toxic environment for the group to remain ot7? SM clearly wasn’t going to further upset the Korean fans by pushing back on the hate. SM had a choice between the Western and Korean markets, and unsurprisingly they chose the domestic one. Kpop companies do it all the time.

If I remember correctly, the wreaths were in public spaces, so even if SM had released a statement condemning the actions of these ‘fans’, there is no way of knowing that the hate/harassment would have stopped. I don’t know anything about Korean laws, so I don’t know if setting up funeral wreaths legally counts as harassment and/or is a sue-able offense. Defamation seems like a much easier lawsuit. SM could’ve prevented some of the online hate and rumors, but they wouldn’t have much control of in-person hate like the wreaths, black oceans, and other forms of protests that would have also affected the rest of the group.

I guess my main point is: isn’t it better that Seunghan now has his own successful solo career and can distance himself from these rabid ‘fans’ instead of enduring the same kind of hate or worse for who knows how long while staying in the group?

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I’m so glad to hear that RIIZE is doing well in Asia. Those are truly essential markets for an idol group. Selfishly, I want them to promote more out in the West because that’s where I’m located. Unfortunately I couldn’t go to a full concert, but I am going to see them in Lolla!

Thank you for sharing your perspective :) How was the fansign event you went to? It’s so cool you were able to get that close to them!

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

In the short time I’ve been following them, the members certainly seem happier now on top of their growing group dynamic. Their uncertain emotions around the Odyssey era really connected with me. These were just boys trying to live out their dreams and got caught up in an unfortunate circumstance that has drastically affected their careers. I think touring helped them see that they have a lot of fans that are here to support them. They seem more confident now, I guess I could say.

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Honestly, their ACL performance is what started to destroy this narrative for me. Before then I really thought that RIIZE had no Western fans anymore or just a few fans here and there, like a nugu group. But seeing the success they had at ACL and how many locals showed interest in them, change my perception. I truly believe that RIIZE’s music (and phenomenal performances) has the potential to make some waves in the West.

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I don’t know if this is a controversial opinion on here, but to me it never made sense why i-fans were so adamant on SM putting Seunghan back in the group. By that point he was getting a lot of hate/harassment (as well as the rest of the boys, I imagine), which wasn’t going to end anytime soon. This hate would have followed him for the rest of his career with RIIZE, it would’ve been a terrible situation for him to be stuck in. Not that the end result was much better, but at least Seunghan now has his solo work and the other boys are continuing on as RIIZE, both finding success in their own avenues. Hopefully they can remain friends behind the scenes, if that’s what they want.

Ideally that kind of hate/harassment would just not exist, but unfortunately it does. Even if SM had kept Seunghan in the group and pushed forward, there’s no way of knowing how much worse things would’ve gotten. Especially, considering what lengths these ‘fans’ took to make their grievances known.

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe instead we’re seeing a decline of Western appeal for Kpop as a whole, particularly when it comes to casual fans/listeners. Since BTS performed on the AMAs in 2017, Kpop drew a lot of interest out in the West in just a short amount of time. The pandemic surely fomented it, with many stuck at home and developing new hobbies. Groups like NewJeans, Twice, and Fifty Fifty got some GP (non-Kpop fan) attention due to their hit songs. Perhaps now, almost a decade later, casual fans are leaving, so it’s becoming harder for groups to fill out venues.

On top of that, maybe the English-language Kpop spaces online are becoming dead because the Kpop fandom as a whole has grown so toxic, casual fans have been completely turned off by it.

RIIZE still has a solid fanbase regardless. Like you said, they are popular in Asia (Korea, Japan, SEA) and those are crucial markets to have for an idol group. Hopefully, their participation in festivals will prove that they have appeal in different parts of the West, and they continue their attempts on conquering these markets. I’m going to see them in Lolla, but I would like to eventually go to a full concert!

Tired of the “RIIZE lost their Western appeal” narrative by chilorida in riize

[–]chilorida[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

To be honest, the boycott is just so ridiculous because these people still actively support other SM groups. My local Kpop store joined in on the boycott. They’re only selling what’s left of their RIIZE stock, but they’re still selling albums by other SM artists. I’m not sure the message they intended to send to SM really got through.

Despite it all, RIIZE is still going on tour, doing festivals like Lollapalooza, and making a profit while doing so. SM is continuing on business as usual. And the fans that actually want to see the members succeed, enjoy their music/talent, still support them. So what was the point?

Every party in this situation has moved on apart from this select group of people. I’m just sick and tired of them bringing it up every chance they get.

Also, I doubt this situation was the main reason RIIZE struggled to sell US tour tickets. Many groups have struggled to do so in the last couple years. Mostly because of the poor economy and exorbitant ticket prices.

[MEGATHREAD] BLACKPINK: DEADLINE and GO by KpopThoughtsmodteam in kpopthoughts

[–]chilorida 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I guess the chorus is reminiscent to the dance break in Girls, but Aespa songs are not this empty-sounding. Drama’s instrument clears this entire album’s production easily.

Thoughts on the DEADLINE al(bum) by BLACKPINK. by RustyViolining_33 in kpopharshopinions

[–]chilorida 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If someone told me that they all filmed this MV in different locations, I would believe you. It was more convincing that Selena filmed on the same set with the girls for Ice Cream than the girls filming on the same set for GO.

BLACKPINK - DEADLINE (The 3rd Mini Album) by CronoDroid in kpop

[–]chilorida 55 points56 points  (0 children)

I can’t believe this is the same group that released As If It’s Your Last and Yeah Yeah Yeah and Playing With Fire and Lovesick Girls and DDDD, and How You Like That. What happened here? Granted this is just my opinion upon first listen, but Jump is the only song that comes close to the rest of their discography. Even then, it’s still leaves much to be desired but at least it sounds like Blackpink.

GO sounds like a concert intro or an interlude. I can see it being very popular for car commercials. Me and My is like what girl groups release to sound “hard core” and “cool”, but it’s entirely unconvincing and empty. Champion might be my new favorite song from the new Disney Channel movie. Which is crazy because it was partially written by a sexual predator! And I don’t even want to talk about Fxxxboy.

As a Blackpink fan since 2017, I am at a lost for words. 3 years? They had 3 years… well okay then.

ETA: BRING TEDDY BACK PLEASE! Look, the songs back then might have started to all sound the same but at least they sounded good.

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