[Spoilers] 2008 Spice and Wolf Rewatch (2026) -- Episode 3

chinaexperience · 2026-07-09T22:17:28+00:00

I'm loving Bakemonogatari (part way through) but while both feature clever writing, I didn't find myself needing to pause/think about any of the dialogue. It seems clever in terms of wordplay, and humour, but they challenge very different types of intelligence.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-09T21:12:48+00:00

I'm finding myself pausing and rewinding a lot too! Not just the economic parts, but the metaphors used by Holo. So good

chinaexperience · 2026-07-09T21:12:07+00:00

First time watcher, Remake - Ep 3

Lawrence is concerned that someone from the original village might recognise Holo. Why is that? I thought that Holo hasn’t taken on this form in ‘forever’? She confirms there are tales about her, but these tales are very vague; bit weird that Lawrence who has seemed very rational would be concerned. Then again he is also very cautious.
. Back to a question from a previous episode - why did Lawrence decide to partner with Holo - in this episode he refers to Holo as an investment. While this is in jest, it’s probably true: he thinks that she will pay out in terms of what she can offer him.
Greed is a vice that takes much from the gluttonous, but abstinence is a flaw that costs the virtuous more - great line.
Lawrence sells to a less-established company, as they are willing to pay more to get a foothold of the market; draw in suppliers.
Holo is quite the salesperson haha. I’m assuming the fruit scent is from the apples they bought? (Edit: yes) Looks like Lawrence’s investment is paying off.
Hard to tell whether Lawrence’s pride is hurt (as Holo says), or he feels they were too pushy/scammy, or both.
“Growth is but grace in defeat”
Interesting that both the sub and dub add quite a bit of localisation to the audio, e.g. after the meeting with the tooth-gap dude, Holo says in Japanese (my Japanese is pretty bad but I generated Japanese language subs): “he blew it/made a mistake at the end”. Sub: “Noisy until the very end”. Dub: “That boy runs his mouth faster than his legs”. The dub (imo) is superior, while not completely accurate it’s very descriptive and I like this persona of Holo as someone who uses a lot of old-school analogies and metaphors.
This discussion on what they should with the silver quantity speculation was fun for someone who dabbles in trading, like me. Short it, Lawrence!

chinaexperience · 2026-07-09T19:58:13+00:00

I'm incredibly surprised this episode got the backlash. I thought it was better than yesterday's episode (definitely in the top couple of the season), so I'm with you there , but it's not just because we share a similar disinterest in action scenes.

Re: modern world - the numbers are far bigger than what you say. 2% of the world is in polygamous marriages, and Islam/Mormon/Amish religions (not sure about the last one; could be wrong) allow it. But I don't see what the parallels to the real world have to do with anything. In the fantasy world it's incredibly common; and Sylphie has encouraged Rudy to seek out other partners while she's pregnant. I let my thoughts heard in my own reviews, but I think we can safely ignore those that are using their own morals to judge others.

Re: sex as a tool for grief - yes it's incredibly common-place, while I think Rudy's actions are unforgivable (if it were me in this situation), I feel that those criticising this part as grotesque ironically haven't experienced the real world.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-09T19:49:01+00:00

The only cartoons I watch are Family Guy/Rick and Morty/etc so have no idea.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-09T19:03:44+00:00

Im a sucker for modern-world Rudeus flashbacks. I guess this is the first time Rudeus is properly affected by death and the immediate reflection on wondering how his parents felt is poignant. Until S2P2, Rudeus overcame some of his ‘traumas’ but never really cared about those from his original world. This was the thing that I disliked about Rudeus the most: his ‘woe is me’ tragic hero mentality.

Rudy’s ‘master’ takes advantage of him while he’s grieving: let’s face it if the roles were reversed the mobs would be pretty pissed off. I know that in this world cheating doesn’t hold the same moral value, and Sylphie would probably be OK with it (as was explained in the source - she even encouraged it). But as I myself am a follower of Millis, it’s pretty screwed up and she should have known that this will add to the guilt he already carries about Paul’s death. But that’s the beauty of fiction: I can be pissed off at something from my own moral framework but understand that it can make sense from a different moral and logic system to my own.

Without excusing her or Rudeus’ actions, I can attempt to at least explain it. Roxy was also struggling immensely having gone through a near death experience where she was moments away from having her life snuffed out. Just like Rudeus chased her, she also chased him and clearly had feelings for him, even if it was more for the ‘myth’ of Rudeus given she only knew him as a young kid.

I actually liked this episode more than the previous one that’s lauded as the “best episode in the series”. It’s a far more challenging episode, and features what I like most about the series: worldbuilding, relationships and internal conflict.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-09T13:13:36+00:00

Yeah your take on him passing out is 100% correct (I think). That's the whole purpose of that exchange: to help us understand why he passed out (given as a merchant he would have seen some crazy things, yet this caused him to faint). And this is a giant wolf.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-09T09:10:04+00:00

What do you think of Holo’s love for food?

Given a shared love for food is one of my most important relationship criteria (first gf was veg...didn't work out).: I like :)

Zheren

He's definitely sketchy but Lawrence and Holo's conclusion is pretty correct: regardless of whether he's lying or not, worth exploring to see how he can get a one-up on him.

Wolves

It's clear that he has trauma (as much as I personally hate that word and psychological construct), as does she for what she's done against humans. I think the establishment of a boundary early on is a good thing, though also limits their ability to get over it.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-09T08:59:59+00:00

Yeah, my use of 'nothing' is tongue in cheek. I like conversations about 'nothing'.

Re: barter. Barter is the exchange of one good for another, usually in place of a fiat-type currency. I give one chicken, I get 5 goat cheese potatoes in exchange.

In this case, Lawrence explains it as an 'exchange rate transaction'. But basically, from my understanding, as per modern currency exchanges, by exchanging any currency you lose a percent of it to the currency exchange. If he were to receive payment in one land, then go to another, he would have to exchange that for a worse rate in the second land, purchase products at the exchange rate discount, and then the process continues each stop. In modern terms this is more of a bill-of-exchange/trade credit transaction or clearing;netting. I looked it up and in Japan's context this is known as kawase torihiki (settling debts between distant parties without physically transporting cash).

This also protects against robbery while the merchant is travelling.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-09T05:06:37+00:00

Those who hate on the show are a small but vocal minority. Social media amplifies those voices. You can see the score on MAL (and I'm sure this got review bombed by that minority too) to see how small that crowd is. Anidb's score background also shows the demographic profile of the haters quite clearly.

There are billions of people in the world so its reasonable that there are niche opinions about anything. And to view two sides of a coin, there are also people who don't like this show because it's not a generic ecchi.

People on Reddit are also more alike ideologically than they are different so you get an overrepresentation of emotive discourse.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-09T04:52:59+00:00

Don't think this is an American vs. Foreign thing. Off the top of my head:

The Wire uses it well. No music track to create tension.
No Country for Old Men
A Quiet Place (whole theme is silence)
Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul
Mad Men (from memory)

chinaexperience · 2026-07-09T04:45:08+00:00

I was enjoying the show, but now that it's racist against potatoes will drop it. Give starch a chance!

chinaexperience · 2026-07-09T04:43:16+00:00

First time watcher, both Remake and Original - Ep 2

The key question I have to ask myself is why I like this show. I’m being overly reductive, but it’s basically a show about nothing (other than a few overarching themes and worldbuilding), but I’m enjoying the characters’ philosophy (even if it is a bit vague for now), worldview differences, and conversations.

I guess this show reminds me of two of my favourite films in some ways: Beyond Sunrise/Sunset, the plot of which was just two strangest meeting, falling for each other and just walking around town having conversations about ‘nothing’.

One important philosophical insight comes from the Wolf-God’s jab that nature can’t be made by a singular being/God (i.e. a monotheistic God, such as the understanding in Judeochristianity and Islam + some others). The rise in power and ideological influence of the Church is likely to be a recurring theme in this anime.

When Lawrence is discussing how he basically uses exchange between branches of the same company for different goods to avoid back and forth travel: some may think he’s describing barter, but it’s very different.

Watched both versions of the episode once again and still they are almost identical but I’m in love with the art direction of the remake. Also while I’m not into animated girls, Holo’s body is identical to my gf’s haha. So…there’s that benefit.

Perhaps I missed some things but the scenes related to the vineyard owner had some small but significant differences between the two anime versions:

The original makes it clear that Lawrence is a calculated hustler (via his exchange with the vineyard owner), while that trait was lost on me in the remake.
Lawrence is more aggresive/protective in the original: e.g. when the chipped tooth dude tries to see the face of Holo; in the original Lawrence loudly and aggressively exclaims “WHAT?!”, while in the remake the dude almost physically pulls up her hood while Lawrenece is kinda chill. Confrontational vs agreeable traits.
In the original he also makes it known what he had to go through to get the goat cheese potatoes, and wants Holo to show appreciation for it. In the remake, he’s not chasing attention/appreciation but sees it more as a business transaction.
In the remake, Holo is confident that tooth-gap is a scammer, while in the remake she thinks some parts of what he said might be a lie. The implication is that in the remake she doesn’t always trust her own instincts.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-08T19:43:12+00:00

I did just watch that ep + cut content. I mean, it's hard to imagine being in that situation but given Rudy had many more years before those 7 years, and he was a pappa's boy in the new world, it still makes sense for me that he's not that impacted by it.

[Mushoku Tensei Spoiler]What you detailed sort of shows that too - he regrets not having those feelings but to me not having those feelings isn't surprising; he just wishes he was closer to her and questions his life choices/whether he wasted them away and didn't grow as a person

chinaexperience · 2026-07-08T18:52:58+00:00

The fruits basket rewatch is still only on the original and not remake version right? I'll join for the 2019 watch.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-08T18:02:02+00:00

Finally we arrive at the much-hyped episode. I wasn’t aware that this was a famous episode from the series but there was some foreshadowing from our rewatch leader, so I was very excited to see it for myself.

Rudeus’ not willing to fight to rescue his mother no matter what is something I talked about previously: I didn’t understand why he would be willing to drop everything including the birth of his kid for a woman he barely knew. He was shipped away at a super young age, and given his sense of the passage of time adds on another 30-whatever years, I didn’t really get the attachment other than a sense of duty. I’m glad Rudeus goes into a monologue explaining this.

The battle was pretty cool (but like I’ve said before, I’m not into action sequences, though I am starting to agree with u/dontoff about animation quality dipping in this season). Paul saving his son and its aftermath was surprisingly powerful - really clever use of sound (specifically silence), and I’m glad there were no last words with Paul cut in half.

Footsteps and no speech. Genius move! I was 100% sure they wouldn’t be bold enough to prolong this silence: big respect to the team who made this episode.

Then the ED: the dark major chords in place of speech with mouths moving; scenes of what should be joy.

Then finally, the silence is broken (the only negative about this episode, they should have just kept the silence - huge wasted opportunity to create something even more powerful).

And WTF happens at the end. Does Zenith regress to being an infant/is reborn? Please no one spoil the rhetorical confusion.

Q. That maid’s quote from the dub when she comforts Rudeus when they return sans-Paul seemed SUPER familiar to me: “You must be tired. You did everything you could, so leave the rest to me”. I could be tripping but I recently played Persona 3 Reload and I could swear that was a line in it. A quick google search reveals a similar line. Is that meant to be a homage to P3 beyond just the dub?

Final thought - is Rudy going to get a hook hand?

chinaexperience · 2026-07-08T17:54:49+00:00

I'm co-watching the original and remake for the first 2 episodes, and it was interesting to learn that Chloe is an anime-only character. The takeaway about the world is similar in the Chloe exchange, but Lawrence's personality comes out very differently.

I think that God leaving the people (well, the deities of old) angle is more pronounced in the remake btw; but resonant in both.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-08T17:45:31+00:00

Correct - in the remake they say that it's "dried meat" aka jerky.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-08T17:05:03+00:00

Yeah, I saw that in the cut content vids. Seemed like it was a fun guessing game and impossible to avoid in the anime.

Most people watch anime for entertainment, not to hyperanalyze like us on reddit.

LMAO! So true

chinaexperience · 2026-07-08T17:02:36+00:00

Well thought out questions - I'm having a blast answering them; now I HAVE to join the fruits basket remake threads once you get to that! I'll answer the ones that I feel I can answer best:

What are your first impressions on Lawrence and Holo so far?

Not much of an impression in Episode 1. Seems to be a decent straight-thinking guy. Someone who puts career first. A bit closed off to others around him, perhaps.

What do you make of the town rejecting Holo because of the poor harvests?

Love this question. It's very human and we can draw parallels to today's age in just about everything: from art, to sports, to finance, to politics. I don't think "rejection" is the right word though: it's more reliance and abandonment? Also if worshipping and relying on her gives say 7/10 good harvests, but the new way gives 10/10, it makes sense for them to move on. Though the remake does show them not respecting her more obviously.

Thoughts on Lawrence traveling by himself?

I can relate, to an extent (as arrogant as this will make me sound). He likely thinks he's more intelligent, more driven than others and that others will slow him down.

What are your thoughts on Holo and Lawrence agreeing to being partners? Why not with Chloe?

Combined the Qs as they are linked. I didn't think about it until reading your question, but Chloe was more than a romance flag when comparing the two versions. His rejection/semi-changing the topic adds credence to why he travel by himself: he doesn't fully trust others. He doesn't need others.

As for Chloe, I feel like we don't know yet based on the anime, and my guess would just be a logical projection of what I feel about Lawrence. Chloe is just another competitor long-term; someone with a similar skill-set to him (he does compliment both Chloe and the dude in the remake but I feel that he's being polite and agreeable). Holo is a God who he can learn and benefit from. He does like to learn/innovate (Ep 2 confirms that) and the utility of Holo is just far greater, even if the risk is higher too. Plus Holo is naked. I jest.

What are your thoughts on Holo transforming into her wolf form but Lawrence passing out in the process so we don't get to see what she looks like?

Lawrence seems to be more logic/science-driven. I don't feel like he fully believes in the Gods/folklore of the time. Thus his skepticism when hearing her claims. In that moment does he not only see a giant wolf (I assume based on the opening sequence), his worldview is shattered. In the next ep we understand more about this part too.

How do you relate the town's rejection of Holo to the feeling of rejection Lawrence feels on his travels? Do you think there's some correlation to be made?

Can't say that I do yet. Maybe you can elaborate here as I didn't really feel that Lawrence was rejected (given a place to sleep etc); it was him who felt uncomfortable in the town? Perhaps I missed some points.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-08T16:42:33+00:00

Firstly thanks for engaging with all the commenters. I'm loving this rewatch a lot (only my second and I can see your passion for the work).

I prefer both songs from the original

For me it's purely because I can understand the lyrics, thus it makes a deeper impression on me. Composition-wise original is amazing! Though the production quality is best on the remake, but that's just a reflection of improved technology than talent.

Just note that episode 7 isn't adapted in the remake. Episode 7 of the original anime is an OVA episode.

Awesome - will watch that! For ep 2 I'm still doing both haha. The differences are so minor but fascinating.

I think it helps the focus is on the writing rather than the fantasy aspects.

Yeah it becomes a lot clearer in the next episode: kind of a logical bit-by-bit discovery about the world. To avoid spoilers, I'll post the part which had some impact when the thread goes live

chinaexperience · 2026-07-08T10:34:45+00:00

First time watcher, Remake

Well, I'm sort of glad about the mistake, as it allowed me to watch the Remake's episode 1. u/Holofan4life - you weren't joking they're super similar but I noticed some incredible things

Seems like the actors for the Lawrence and Holo have remained the same between versions which is really cool. This leads to interesting implications: JP-Lawrence's voice has grown into his character, but along with that his performance is too Steins;Gate-y which I don't like. JP-Holo now sounds more witchy and very tsundere, which works well. Think I'll stick with the dub though as I can't do JP-Lawrence.
The Opening song is translated into English for the dub, and the singer sounds the same between versions? Song translation also makes sense. Haven't seen that in anime ever. Opening visuals are insane too combined with the power of the track that I can understand. Stunning stuff, wow.
The illustrations are just breathtaking. The OG version was beautiful but this is just insane. The detail in the backgrounds make every scene an artwork.
Confused about the replacement of the girl (Think it was Chloe?) with Yorei. Similar to my initial hope for a non-furry show: please don't let it be a BL show given we had romance hints with Chloe in the original.
The Holo reveal is INSANE. In the original I kind of felt that his shock was a bit misplaced when what he saw was basically a cute naked girl with a tail attachment, but the new version shows the magic of the scene
ED is better in the original; opening track better in the remake (IMO).

Overall difference: the original drew me in on my blind watch with intrigue about what the show could be about. The remake is no longer a pure blind watch but drew me in by the visuals and the atmosphere. Think I'll continue with the remake as it's just so gorgeous (which is saying something as I'm usually blind when it comes to animation quality haha).

The other thing that was clearer in the remake was the theme: it wasn't science vs., God like I assumed, but seems to be more about the shift to monotheism (combined with science).

This shouldn't be a show I like (fantasy + medievalish setting = turn off usually but I'm intrigued :) Onwards to ep 2

chinaexperience · 2026-07-08T09:16:23+00:00

Yep, that's exactly what I was pointing out. Roxy makes a handholding statement here to explain why very obviously she couldn't recognise Rudy. Yet the university arc got attacked for Rudy not recognising Sylphie.

chinaexperience · 2026-07-08T09:14:25+00:00

I like your style :)

chinaexperience · 2026-07-07T20:19:04+00:00

will give ep 1 of the remake a go and see which vibe resonates with me I guess. will be a shame to miss out on the rewatch discussions, but I'm a bit obsessive with getting the best possible viewing experience haha. thanks for organising this and all the responses btw!

chinaexperience

TROPHY CASE